Are Mormons going to hell?

[JimB]

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Galatians 1v8

Mormonism, allegedly an angel appeared to 'Joseph Smith' and gave him a new revelation/ gospel. The lost tribes of Israel came to North America without leaving a trace but the truth was revealed by an angel called Moroni in the 19th C.

Is the modern church so far from the foundations that we would even consider such stuff as Christian?

But I am not talking about Mormonism or the “Mormon Church,” I am talking about Mormon people. Yes, IMO, the whole of Mormonism is corrupt and accursed. It is a false theology and should be condemned? But if a young person raised in Utah, to a Mormon family, is brought up predominantly Mormon home and neighborhood, went to a Mormon school, whose friends and relatives were Mormon, was taken to a Mormon church, taught Mormon Sunday school lessons, was totally submerged in Mormonism, yet believed in his heart that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, would that person, even though he remained a Mormon, be saved? Is faith in Jesus Christ enough or is it Jesus-and-something-else? Does his theology have to be sound before he can be numbered among those who believe? If it does, then what about Roman Catholics? Cessationists? Baptists? Calvinsts? Armenians? Jesus Freaks? Et. al.? Where do we draw the line?

 

[pinkputter]

A different Jesus is a different gospel. A different gospel leads to damnation.

wow hope that not all of them believe this. praying they find truth instead of made up gospel and come to know the REAL Jesus.

 

[JimB]

wow hope that not all of them believe this. praying they find truth instead of made up gospel and come to know the REAL Jesus.

I hope they come to the truth, too. But then I hope some of us in this forum come to the truth as well (me included). Now we see through a glass darkly and will not know as we are known until we come face to face with the Lord. Then (and only then) will we, including our Mormon friends, finally get it all right. And I expect we will all be in shock at how simple it is and how far wrong we were/are. Of course, the conceited person will think they are right even to the very death. But we will all have to wait and see. In the meantime I will not judge the eternal destiny of any Mormon, especially those who profess faith in Christ. God has not given me the authority to be a juror.

 

[pinkputter]

I hope they come to the truth, too. But then I hope some of us in this forum come to the truth as well (me included). Now we see through a glass darkly and will not know as we are known until we come face to face with the Lord. Then (and only then) will we, including our Mormon friends, finally get it all right. And I expect we will all be in shock at how simple it is and how far wrong we were/are. Of course, the conceited person will think they are right even to the very death. But we will all have to wait and see. In the meantime I will not judge the eternal destiny of any Mormon, especially those who profess faith in Christ. God has not given me the authority to be a juror.

I have to agree with you there, friend!

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight."

 

[JimB]

I have to agree with you there, friend!

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight."

.

 

[lismore]

But I am not talking about Mormonism or the “Mormon Church,” I am talking about Mormon people. Yes, IMO, the whole of Mormonism is corrupt and accursed. It is a false theology and should be condemned? But if a young person raised in Utah, to a Mormon family, is brought up predominantly Mormon home and neighborhood, went to a Mormon school, whose friends and relatives were Mormon, was taken to a Mormon church, taught Mormon Sunday school lessons, was totally submerged in Mormonism, yet believed in his heart that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, would that person, even though he remained a Mormon, be saved? Is faith in Jesus Christ enough or is it Jesus-and-something-else? Does his theology have to be sound before he can be numbered among those who believe? If it does, then what about Roman Catholics? Cessationists? Baptists? Calvinsts? Armenians? Jesus Freaks? Et. al.? Where do we draw the line?

That is the purpose of the church, to share the true gospel of Jesus Christ with that Mormon girl. Whether someone is submerged in a false gospel or not, the church has the commission to go into all the world and share the gospel with all creation including that person.

You can tell them that they're already saved if you want to, but you're doing these people an eternal dis-service by not telling them the truth.

Jesus said that if you do not believe he is who he said he was then you will die in your sins (John 8:24)

 

[gideons300]

A different Jesus is a different gospel. A different gospel leads to damnation.

May I then humbly ask....if a tree is known by its fruits, not its doctrines per se, and a good tree cannot bear bad fruits, are we so sure that OUR gospel is the correct one?

The difference between the church of the book of Acts and us today is mind numbing. There, they turned the known world upside down in one generation as they willingly put their lives on the line every single day. Bystanders would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" I cannot remember ever hearing that said about the current church...ever.

If by the same measure we mete, it shall be measured unto us, do you not think it may be a good time to hit our knees and ask God to restore to us what the early church possessed that we obviously do not. We may speak in tongues, but beyond that surface similarity, all else seems to be from a different planet. If we have been given much, is much not expected of us? If we as Charismatics have more than the average Christian, would it not be logical to expect our fruits to be greater and our holiness to be palpable? Then the next question. Why isn't it?

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Messy]

Mormons believe in a wrong Jesus, like JW's, but I saw a JW on a forum who just thinks for himself. He doesn't believe in Jesus being an angel. Muslims believe in Jesus. This one is terrific, God can deal with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=geD_9FqGDRA

 

[JimB]

A different Jesus is a different gospel. A different gospel leads to damnation.

So, what is “the Gospel"? I was recently told that I was not “preaching the Gospel” because I failed to give a Billy Graham, come-to-Jesus invitation at the close of my message. But I contended that I always preach the Gospel and I asked the critic if she could define “Gospel” for me—what, specifically, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? They drew a blank stare. She had no idea what I meant. So, I ask you, What do you mean when you say “Gospel”?

IMO, the Gospel is not behavior modification, becoming a better person or learning to become more moral. It is not taking the life of Jesus as a model way to live or transforming and redeeming the culture. It is not living highly communal lives with others and sharing generously in communities who practice the way of Jesus or believing the Bible perfectly. It is not doctrine or creedal beliefs or the way we practice our faith. These may all be good things but they are not to be confused with the Gospel. They accompany the Gospel, and should not separate from the Gospel and while God may use them to authenticate the Gospel and make our proclamation of more fertile in hardened hearts, yet they are not to be viewed as the Gospel itself.

For me, in short, “the Gospel” is the life-altering news—the Good News—that Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, became man, lived a sinless life, died for sinners, and rose again to reconcile us to himself—it is “Jesus Christ and him crucified.” And I know many people, some Mormons among them, who believe this. Oh, sure, they might not hold their mouth right, or they may have some skewed notion they have been taught (but don’t we all?), or some weird belief about the details, or use a different vocabulary, or define the fine points differently, but they may believe the Gospel that Jesus is Lord all the same. They have believed the Gospel, not a "different" Gospel, but THE Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[LBP]

Based on a lifetime in a Mormon-dominated area and a fair amount of study, it is clear to me that Mormonism is an historical fraud, with at least some teachings (i.e., the history of the Americas) that are demonstrably false, and with key doctrines that bear zero resemblance to anything that might reasonably be called mainstream Christianity. That being said, it seems to me that Mormons cannot be regarded as Christians unless one adopts the philosophy that some Buddhists, Hindus and Scientologists can be "secret Christians" without even knowing it. It is a conundrum as to whether one can come to a saving faith in Christ via a belief system that is an historical fraud and whose key doctrines bear zero resemblance to anything Jesus taught, yet which superficially presents itself as Christian and which does pay lip service to some of the mainstream Christian doctrines; the answer is up to God, but I would have a difficult time believing that anyone who did come to Christ through Mormonism would be able to remain in the church for long. From my considerable experience, it seems to me that most Mormons are so indoctrinated into the church and its culture from such an early age, and find it to have such a supportive (albeit highly controlling) earthly organization, that they really give little thought as to whether it or they are really Christian. I recently retired from an office of licensed professionals where a fair number of my fellow professionals were highly intelligent and decent Mormons whom the Southern Baptists would have been proud to claim as their own, but it seemed to me and others that these otherwise intelligent folks went into some sort of zombie-like LDS-parrot trance when the subject of religion came up.

 

[Messy]

For me, in short, “the Gospel” is the life-altering news—the Good News—that Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, became man, lived a sinless life, died for sinners, and rose again to reconcile us to himself—it is “Jesus Christ and him crucified.” And I know many people, some Mormons among them, who believe this. Oh, sure, they might not hold their mouth right, or they may have some skewed notion they have been taught (but don’t we all?), or some weird belief about the details, or use a different vocabulary, or define the fine points differently, but they may believe the Gospel that Jesus is Lord all the same. They have believed the Gospel, not a "different" Gospel, but THE Gospel of Jesus Christ.

But I heard they believe Jesus is an angel and not God in the flesh.

"Three separate personages-Father, Son and holy Ghost- comprise the Godhead…these three are the only Gods we worship."(Mormon Doctrine 1966 ed. P.576-577) So Mormons teach to worship Jesus but also 2 other Gods.

 

[Faulty]

I heard this Mormon overview was coming on the day I was posting on this thread. Coincidence? I think not. It's a dig into the doctrine to show it to be a works-based salvation religion and a promoter of polytheism, and the claim by Joseph Smith that he was told this is the true gospel and all other churches are apostate.

Matt Slick at Carm.org:
http://archive.org/download/MSlickLive/1655Matt11-11-13TalkOnMormonism.mp3

 

[JimB]

I heard this Mormon overview was coming on the day I was posting on this thread. Coincidence? I think not. It's a dig into the doctrine to show it to be a works-based salvation religion and a promoter of polytheism, and the claim by Joseph Smith that he was told this is the true gospel and all other churches are apostate.

Matt Slick at Carm.org:
http://archive.org/download/MSlickLive/1655Matt11-11-13TalkOnMormonism.mp3

Thanx for the link, Faulty, but this thread isn’t about Mormonism. I will let others fight the giant; my only concern is the people in the Mormon church, those who have not been exposed to Evangelical beliefs. I think every member of this forum agrees that Mormonism is heretical. But this thread is about people trapped within the Mormon church—can they be saved? In fact, are many of them already saved? Salvation happens when a person’s faith (not knowledge) responds to the Good News that Jesus Christ is Lord. What happens afterward is a matter of “God working in them both to will and do his good pleasure”(Phil. 2.13). But that is God’s business, not mine. My business is to love them and I cannot love them if I don’t respect and even accept them just as they are, just as God loved and accepted me, even as he continues to love and accept me despite some of my weird ideas (at least weird according to some in this forum ). What God does in the heart is up to him; doctrine, even sound doctrine, never saved anyone. Salvation is an act of faith, not intellect. So, can a Mormon who accepts Christ as Savior remain saved even if they continue to be affiliated with Mormonism and even if they continue to believe things Evangelical Christians agree that are heterodox? The Apostle Paul believed the same about Judaism and debated Judaized Christians in Acts 15, but he still accepted them as Christians.

 

[JimB]

But I heard they believe Jesus is an angel and not God in the flesh.

"Three separate personages-Father, Son and holy Ghost- comprise the Godhead…these three are the only Gods we worship."(Mormon Doctrine 1966 ed. P.576-577) So Mormons teach to worship Jesus but also 2 other Gods.

And some in this forum believe things about Jesus that I find odd (and visa versa ). Salvation is not about what we know. If it were then illiterate or mentally slow people or people deprived of teachers or scripture could never be saved, because intellectual circumstances barred them.

I agree that sound doctrine helps us live our lives as better Christians (on this planet), but faith, which has nothing to do with the head, only the heart is something entirely different. God doesn’t respond to what we have been taught about him; he responds only to our faith in his son Jesus Christ. Hence, a Mormon or, for that matter, a Muslim can be saved even if they never come in contact with an Evangelical church or believer. But because we live our lives in our head and not our heart, many people have to be intellectually shown the truth before they will accept it by faith. But some don’t. I have seen severely mentally deficient people become believers and it had nothing to do with sound doctrine before or afterward.

 

[JimB]

May I then humbly ask....if a tree is known by its fruits, not its doctrines per se, and a good tree cannot bear bad fruits, are we so sure that OUR gospel is the correct one?

The difference between the church of the book of Acts and us today is mind numbing. There, they turned the known world upside down in one generation as they willingly put their lives on the line every single day. Bystanders would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" I cannot remember ever hearing that said about the current church...ever.

If by the same measure we mete, it shall be measured unto us, do you not think it may be a good time to hit our knees and ask God to restore to us what the early church possessed that we obviously do not. We may speak in tongues, but beyond that surface similarity, all else seems to be from a different planet. If we have been given much, is much not expected of us? If we as Charismatics have more than the average Christian, would it not be logical to expect our fruits to be greater and our holiness to be palpable? Then the next question. Why isn't it?

Blessings,

Gideon

Hmmm. You may be putting more stock in what we preach/teach others than you should, Gideon. This forum is evidence enough that we can be taught massive loads of cr*p. Sure, it is important that we teach/preach sound doctrine but doctrine never saved anyone. You can know everything and still miss the Truth; and you can receive the Truth and not know anything. Truth and knowledge, though one may affect the other, are mutually independent. If God is not “inside” us, working in us to will and do his good pleasure (Phil. 2.13), then we are hopeless. When the ground is prepared and God is on the inside, from that fertile bed grows good fruit.

Some of the meanest people I have ever met know a lot of theology and practice a lot of (pseudo)-“holiness” and some of the kindest know very little theology and even (gasp! Smoke and buy lottery tickets). By inspecting their “fruit,” which would we say was Christian: the intellectual theologian or the nonintellectual simpleton. What Jesus is pointing out is that good fruit grows out of good earth and that has nothing to do with knowledge.

 

[JimB]

[quote=gideons300;64474687]*****[/quote]

The difference between the church of the book of Acts and us today is mind numbing.


*****

You may be reading the Book of Acts through rose-colored glasses, Gideon. There are only eight recorded healings over a period of 30 years recorded in Acts, that’s only one every four years (why, we see more than that in a single Benny Hinn telecast ). I am sure there were others, but they did not make it into the Record. Plus, they had some major disagreements within the church (see Acts 6 and 15, for example) just like we do today. And Paul’s letters to the Corinthians and Galatians show us clearly that first-century Christians were, unfortunately, a lot like modern Christians. You might want to re-read Acts and the Epistles (not to mention Rev. 2 & 3) again. In some ways, I would want to be like the Christians in Acts; in other ways, not so much.

 

[like eagleswings]

All i can say about people in cults,or false religions, is God knows who are his, individuely.
but i recon there a lot of x mormons, who were called to get out of it by the holy spirit.

i have chatted to mormon missionarys, i just tell them how Jesus has powered me,and changed me, and i am saved by faith,not of works. there good chaps,and seem to listen to what i said. they dress very smart, clean shaven the works.

 

[Faulty]

Thanx for the link, Faulty, but this thread isn’t about Mormonism. I will let others fight the giant; my only concern is the people in the Mormon church, those who have not been exposed to Evangelical beliefs. I think every member of this forum agrees that Mormonism is heretical. But this thread is about people trapped within the Mormon church—can they be saved? In fact, are many of them already saved? Salvation happens when a person’s faith (not knowledge) responds to the Good News that Jesus Christ is Lord. What happens afterward is a matter of “God working in them both to will and do his good pleasure”(Phil. 2.13). But that is God’s business, not mine. My business is to love them and I cannot love them if I don’t respect and even accept them just as they are, just as God loved and accepted me, even as he continues to love and accept me despite some of my weird ideas (at least weird according to some in this forum ). What God does in the heart is up to him; doctrine, even sound doctrine, never saved anyone. Salvation is an act of faith, not intellect. So, can a Mormon who accepts Christ as Savior remain saved even if they continue to be affiliated with Mormonism and even if they continue to believe things Evangelical Christians agree that are heterodox? The Apostle Paul believed the same about Judaism and debated Judaized Christians in Acts 15, but he still accepted them as Christians.

The question was are Mormons going to hell. The answer is yes.

Can Mormons be saved? Yes, most certainly. But then they wouldn't be Mormons any longer, having switched Gods and all.

 

[lismore]

I know an older guy who lives in the next street. Tommy.

He used to be a mormon, now goes to a Charismatic Church.

I met him a while back at a meeting and he told me the reason he became suspicious of Mormonism is that they continually talked about Joseph Smith, but very rarely about Jesus.

That is the crux of the matter, like Islam they claim a new prophet, a new revelation, one that supercedes anything that Jesus said.

But as the book of Hebrews says, in former times God spoke though the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken through his son.

Any group that places the alleged insights of a self-appointed prophet above Jesus is not a Christian group.

 

[Tenebrae]

And in that respect I agree.


Many years ago when I was at uni, we did a study on mormonism, and interestingly enough mormon missionaries are more likely to target someone who openly profess their Christianity, because they can profess their same belief in Jesus and the God the bible.

I think that its not as easy as saying a mormon is not a christian. Someone who is a mormon may not have been exposed to any of the different teachings such as man being able to achieve godhood

"Mormon" is not a different denomination. It's a different religion.