(Anglican) Church of Ireland - motion on same-sex relationship

[Raphael Jauregui]

This Friday, 5 May 2017, the Church of Ireland will be debating a motion to ask for the bishops to provide a service of thanksgiving for same-sex couples entering in civil partnership or marriage. The proposal is simply to ask for the services and those services would not receive a vote until 2019. The proposal does not change the canon law or church teaching. It just asks that services of thanksgiving be an option as pastoral accommodation. Given the debate in the wider Anglican Communion, do you think that this kind of proposal would be a compromise to help keep both the conservative and liberal sides together? It is likely that this will be too much for some conservatives and not enough for some liberals, but, for now, could this compromise avoid a split? Thoughts?Church of Ireland set to vote on same-sex relationship motion | Christian News on Christian Today

 

[Albion]

Given the debate in the wider Anglican Communion, do you think that this kind of proposal would be a compromise to help keep both the conservative and liberal sides together?

Absolutely not. Not a chance. It won't be acceptable to either side.

 

[Arcangl86]

Absolutely not. Not a chance. It won't be acceptable to either side.

I agree with Albion, and that seldom happens. But for both sides it has become a sort of all or nothing kind of thing.

 

[Paidiske]

I can only really answer for my diocese, but no, I don't think it would be an acceptable compromise here, either. (The phrase "blood on the synod floor" rather comes to mind).

 

[Paidiske]

I can only really answer for my diocese, but no, I don't think it would be an acceptable compromise here, either. (The phrase "blood on the synod floor" rather comes to mind).

 

[Padres1969]

Absolutely not. Not a chance. It won't be acceptable to either side.

I suspect Albion is right. One side will see it as "caving" on the issue, and the other will see it as a half measure.

 

[Albion]

I suspect Albion is right. One side will see it as "caving" on the issue, and the other will see it as a half measure.

Exactly. The advocates of change will say that it doesn't "celebrate" SS unions, such that they are still being considered less than all the other marriages performed by the Church of Ireland. Although it's a church rite, they'll see it as something that's on the order of the Churching of Women.

On the other hand, the OP asked if this compromise would avert a split in the Anglican Communion; and I doubt that it will be or would be the decisive factor whether there's a split or not.

 

[Philip_B]

Albion is correct. The advocates for change will argue the matter as a natter of social justice and can mount a fair case that most people can understand. The advocates for the status quou will want to make an argument based on sacramemtal theology or biblical imperatives. The kind of proposal seems to be neither fish nor fowel. As a call for time out to think and pray it has merit but I am not sure that it helps. One of the problems that we don't seem to speak of is that the understanding of marriage has changed over time.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This Friday, 5 May 2017, the Church of Ireland will be debating a motion to ask for the bishops to provide a service of thanksgiving for same-sex couples entering in civil partnership or marriage. The proposal is simply to ask for the services and those services would not receive a vote until 2019. The proposal does not change the canon law or church teaching. It just asks that services of thanksgiving be an option as pastoral accommodation. Given the debate in the wider Anglican Communion, do you think that this kind of proposal would be a compromise to help keep both the conservative and liberal sides together? It is likely that this will be too much for some conservatives and not enough for some liberals, but, for now, could this compromise avoid a split? Thoughts?Church of Ireland set to vote on same-sex relationship motion | Christian News on Christian Today

It only helps the liberal side. If any such motion is passed, it's a step in the libs favor.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Exactly. The advocates of change will say that it doesn't "celebrate" SS unions, such that they are still being considered less than all the other marriages performed by the Church of Ireland. Although it's a church rite, they'll see it as something that's on the order of the Churching of Women.

On the other hand, the OP asked if this compromise would avert a split in the Anglican Communion; and I doubt that it will be or would be the decisive factor whether there's a split or not.

Thank you, and everyone so far, for the responses. I was thinking about this myself in conversations I have had with people on both sides of the issue. Personally, and only speaking individually here, I support measures like this because it represents some progress toward affirmation for LGBTI couples. However, I have spoken to others who view it exactly as you said, not being enough and therefore not good. On the other side, some who identify as traditionalists see it as too far. I also think that you are right that this will not be the decisive issue that may cause a split. However, the GAFCON churches are already planting a missionary bishop for Scotland and England. Could this cause them to send a missionary bishop to Ireland too? Or, does GAFCON already have missionary bishops in Ireland?

 

[gordonhooker]

No neither side would accept it.

 

[Shane R]

Interestingly, or not, the GAFCON affiliate Anglican church of Nigeria tells locals that my own continuing jurisdiction is a queer church. Anyone who knows the Continuum well knows that is ridiculous. However, they spin a narrative to their liking to disparage us.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Interestingly, or not, the GAFCON affiliate Anglican church of Nigeria tells locals that my own continuing jurisdiction is a queer church. Anyone who knows the Continuum well knows that is ridiculous. However, they spin a narrative to their liking to disparage us.

I am assuming that you are referring to 'Q' as in like the LGBT+ community more generally? Also, just curious, when they say that, are they commenting on your continuum as being liberal in their view? Or, is your church traditionalist and they just perceive it to be liberal?

 

[Shane R]

I am assuming that you are referring to 'Q' as in like the LGBT+ community more generally? Also, just curious, when they say that, are they commenting on your continuum as being liberal in their view? Or, is your church traditionalist and they just perceive it to be liberal?

Our church is traditionalist and they perceive it to be a threat (at least that's my guess). Whatever the case, they do not wish to give us any respect or credit.

 

[Arcangl86]

Our church is traditionalist and they perceive it to be a threat (at least that's my guess). Whatever the case, they do not wish to give us any respect or credit.

I disagree with GAFCON missionaries in general, but the fact that they are intentionally trying to undermine a native Anglican church with similar theology kind of turns my stomach.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't think GAFCON see anyone outside of GAFCON as really valid, to be honest.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Our church is traditionalist and they perceive it to be a threat (at least that's my guess). Whatever the case, they do not wish to give us any respect or credit.

Interesting. I did not realise that GAFCON disapproved of some parts of the continuing Anglican churches. That is something I have learned!

 

[seeking.IAM]

I was wondering the other day what reactions would be if Ireland countered by appointing a missionary Bishop to Africa to be ready to provide oversight to African churches that want to adopt a more "progressive" stance on same sex relationships? It might be interesting gamesmanship.

 

[Paidiske]

Can we get a missionary bishop for Sydney first?

 

[Arcangl86]

That's the thing. Most of the GAFCON primates would start screaming bloody murder if other provinces were to establish an alternative oversight system in their provinces, but it's ok for them to do so.