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A young priest explains Canon

Xeno.of.athens

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Good discussion and the post avoids a lot of the popular level apologetics I see. However, I disagree for the following reasons:

-first, Jesus mentions the Jewish canon which was not as much in question as later writings might have us believe.




….from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary.


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. Crossway Bibles, 2016, p. Lk 11:51.

Abel is slewn in the first book Genesis and Zechariah is killed in the last book of the Jewish ordering 2 chronicles.

The Jews were charged with keeping the oracles of God:

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. Crossway Bibles, 2016, p. Ro 3:1–2.

Yet Jesus observed Hanukkah which is not found in the Jewish canon.
Josephus mentions I believe 22 books. Other Jewish writers mention 24 books. The difference is what you do with Ruth and lamentations. They were often attached to Judges and Jeremiah respectively.

There was an academy at Jamnia That met in the mid to late second century that is often referenced to as establishing and closing the Jewish canon. However, this hypothesis is now largely rejected because the academy did not discuss any of the books of the apocrypha but rather discussed Esther or perhaps the Song of Songs. Add to the matter the discussion was whether those books made the hands ceremonially unclean. And the larger part of the OT had already been laid up in the temple. Therefore there was no discussion if other books were to be admitted. Lastly the academy did not have any authority to make a new Canon.

Athanasius actually mentions 67 books as he includes Baruch which was often attached to Jeremiah in the LXX (Septuagint). It is likely he did not know that Baruch was not considered as part of Jewish canon. While Athanasius rejected the apocrypha as canon (he would not have used that term as it is a later adjective) he thought they were useful for reading and instruction. Which I would add is the Lutheran and Anglican position of the apocrypha. Our liturgies use the Song of the Three Children in Matins and the classic books of common prayer at morning prayer.

Jerome rejected the apocrypha as well stating “. . . And here begins the book of Judith. It is not to be counted as scripture”. Yet, as one can tell he included the apocrypha in his translation, the Latin Vulgate.

The LXX originally meant the Torah. There is not a singular LXX of the prophets and writings that I am aware of. It is true that when the NT quotes the OT it is usually from a version of the LXX. The LXX is believed to reflect an older textual tradition than the Masoritic text. Yet it would be inaccurate to state that the MSS invented a new text. Rather they standardized a system of vowel pointing since semetic alphabets do not have vowels. This was probably to save space. Add to that there are quotations of the Ot in the NT that appear to come from the Targum, which are a syriac paraphrase.

So in conclusion the issue of the apocrypha is a bit complicated. Luther never removed books but rather regulated them to an appendix. He was hardly alone as he was following Jerome, Athanasius and his contemporaries such as cardinal Carjetan to name a few. So if one is concerned that their Bible is somehow altered it is not. Read the apocrypha for yourself. There is useful instruction to be found. Yet even Rome knows these books are inferior and that is why they refer to them as Deuterocanon meaning second canon. Or you can just refer to them as I do as pious writings.

Fun fact, the KJV included the apocrypha in an appendix until the mid 19th century. Cambridge still publishes a version with the apocrypha to this day.
Your reply is intriguing. It's important to recognize that Saint Jerome lacked the authority to remove books from the canon. Similarly, Martin Luther did not create the Old Testament canon he utilized; rather, he adopted the Jewish canon that was prevalent during his lifetime. Cardinal Cajetan also lacked the authority to determine the canonical books. He was at liberty to offer his opinions because, at the time of his writings, the Catholic Church had not yet definitively established the canon. Indeed, in the Western tradition, the canon was affirmed in the fourth century AD through several local councils, but it was not until the councils of Florence and Trent that a clear dogmatic statement regarding the canon was made.

Regarding the King James Version, both Oxford and Cambridge presses offer several editions that contain the Apocrypha, such as The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible.

When you mentioned that the books of the Deuterocanon are inferior, I assume you are sharing a personal viewpoint rather than representing the Catholic Church's stance, as the Church does not differentiate between protocanonical and deuterocanonical books in terms of superiority. The term 'Deuterocanon' is typically employed in dialogues between Protestant and Catholic individuals.
 
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Athanasius377

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Your reply is intriguing. It's important to recognize that Saint Jerome lacked the authority to remove books from the canon. Similarly, Martin Luther did not create the Old Testament canon he utilized; rather, he adopted the Jewish canon that was prevalent during his lifetime. Cardinal Cajetan also lacked the authority to determine the canonical books. He was at liberty to offer his opinions because, at the time of his writings, the Catholic Church had not yet definitively established the canon. Indeed, in the Western tradition, the canon was affirmed in the fourth century AD through several local councils, but it was not until the councils of Florence and Trent that a clear dogmatic statement regarding the canon was made.

Regarding the King James Version, both Oxford and Cambridge presses offer several editions that contain the Apocrypha, such as The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible.

When you mentioned that the books of the Deuterocanon are inferior, I assume you are sharing a personal viewpoint rather than representing the Catholic Church's stance, as the Church does not differentiate between protocanonical and deuterocanonical books in terms of superiority. The term 'Deuterocanon' is typically employed in dialogues between Protestant and Catholic individuals.
I would retort by saying the Christian church was never granted any authority to determine the extent of the OT. That was already done centuries before the first Advent of our Lord. The status of the Apocrypha primarily comes down to Augustine’s acceptance of the same. He did so thinking that the Jews had already accepted the said books. To put it simply, no Christian authority had the authority to retroactively canonize a text that was already rejected by Jewish authorities. The 22 books were already laid up in the temple and were already said to make the hands unclean. This is in keeping with Romans 3:1-2. The only books that were challenged were Esther and perhaps the Song of Songs. As for the NT no one I know is denying that catholic Church’s ability to recognize what is NT canon. Sans what is referred to the antilogemena yet those books were finally accepted by the fourth century. Hebrews was firmly rejected by Rome until relatively late while the Eastern churches rejected Revelation and that is why it is not read in her public liturgy. Including those aligned with Rome.

All that to say is in conclusion that Rome never had the authority to declare the OT canon. She was endowed with authority to recognize the NT canon. As far as 1 Clement and the Didache they were thought of as authoritative but no scripture. Lastly, and perhaps more importantly the one book that is not included in the NT that was often quoted was “the Sherphard (of Hermas)”. This text portrays a church in Rome without a monarchial episcopate where a council of presbyters are ruling. Meaning no Pope as the Papacy was a development.

ps. Rome did not dogmatically define the canon of Scripture until 1546 at the council of Trent. If one is going to argue the authority to define scripture then one has to deal. With the fact local councils do not equal the authority of an ecumenical dogmatic council in the Roman system. That said I’m not trying to make a RCC vs Protestant argument as I don’t see the definition of Protestant (meaning not RCC) all that helpful. Like as I said there are different views of the Apocrypha even amongst non RCC communions.
 
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