On the Celebration of the Sabbath in Liturgical Churches

[The Liturgist]

The SOP (the rules) for this forum make an important point: “Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)”

Thus, whereas it is the case that the Eastern Orthodox and other denominations such as Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism do observe the Sabbath and the other decalogues in an appropriate manner for a Christian denomination, we are not to allow others to judge us on this issue as per St. Paul in Colossians 2:16.

And furthermore, other Christians should not judge us, nor make statements implying that adherence to the Law is a neccessary requirement for salvation, since Scripture makes it clear that Christ our True God did willingly sacrifice Himself on the Cross that we might be spared the penalty for all our sins and transgressions, and in so doing glorified us, allowing those who believe on Him to receive life everlasting.

Likewise, traditional Christians should not comment negatively about Adventist practices concerning the Sabbath since that would also violate Colossians 2:16. Rather, judgmental remarks concerning the Sabbath-observance and law-keeping of different denominations should be avoided on the basis of charity and the requirement Christ imposed upon us not to judge others, in that what goes on outside of our denomination is not our business.

This does not mean we cannot discuss the divergent beliefs of our respective denominations, but rather that harsh polemics directed at one denomination or the other for its specific doctrine concerning the Sabbath I have come to realize is contrary to the moral imperatives contained in the Pauline epistles.

Instead of judging each other, we should charitably assume that each respective church is following the commandments of Christ in its own way.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

The SOP (the rules) for this forum make an important point: “Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)”

Thus, whereas it is the case that the Eastern Orthodox and other denominations such as Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism do observe the Sabbath and the other decalogues in an appropriate manner for a Christian denomination, we are not to allow others to judge us on this issue as per St. Paul in Colossians 2:16.

And furthermore, other Christians should not judge us, nor make statements implying that adherence to the Law is a neccessary requirement for salvation, since Scripture makes it clear that Christ our True God did willingly sacrifice Himself on the Cross that we might be spared the penalty for all our sins and transgressions, and in so doing glorified us, allowing those who believe on Him to receive life everlasting.

Likewise, traditional Christians should not comment negatively about Adventist practices concerning the Sabbath since that would also violate Colossians 2:16. Rather, judgmental remarks concerning the Sabbath-observance and law-keeping of different denominations should be avoided on the basis of charity and the requirement Christ imposed upon us not to judge others, in that what goes on outside of our denomination is not our business.

This does not mean we cannot discuss the divergent beliefs of our respective denominations, but rather that harsh polemics directed at one denomination or the other for its specific doctrine concerning the Sabbath I have come to realize is contrary to the moral imperatives contained in the Pauline epistles.

Instead of judging each other, we should charitably assume that each respective church is following the commandments of Christ in its own way.

At the same we should take note of James 2:14:

"What use is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but has no works? Can that faith save him?" (LSB)

Also, it is the Law that defines sin (see Paul on this) - as such we still need it as a boundary between good/bad apparently.

Be blessed!

 

[Clare73]

The SOP (the rules) for this forum make an important point: “Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)”

Thus, whereas it is the case that the Eastern Orthodox and other denominations such as Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism do observe the Sabbath and the other decalogues in an appropriate manner for a Christian denomination, we are not to allow others to judge us on this issue as per St. Paul in Colossians 2:16.

I think the issue is whether the day is Saturday or Sunday, rather than the observance itself.

 

[NBB]

You don't need to keep the sabbath, Paul wrote about that.
The council of Jerusalem also, you would think if the sabbath was a salvation issue they would have been mentioned there.

 

[DamianWarS]

I think the issue is whether the day is Saturday or Sunday, rather than the observance itself.

Observance of a day in itself is no issue and I respect the OP in this matter. But the discussion can go beyond day keeping. Christ says in Mat 12:12 that "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". Christ then opens the door to a lawful mechanism of sabbath keeping that is not by-the-letter driven but driven by goodness.

This begs the question: If we were to only do goodness, wouldn't our actions always be lawful? The two greatest commandments also touch on this. The first is lofty and open to interpretation in terms of the how, while the second concerns action toward each other. The two are dovetailed together, and again, goodness is shown as a mechanism of obedience and lawful.

Paul also shows us this same point in Gal 5:14 says "For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Again goodness is shown as a mechanism to be lawful.

We shouldn't judge each other regarding what day we observe (or not) but we should encourage goodness to triumph over every moment and mandated by God. A goodness that shows the glory of God and allows others to partake of his greatness.

John 13:34-35
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Christ commands us to love. Should this not be our drive for every moment?

 

[BobRyan]

The SOP (the rules) for this forum make an important point: “Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)”

Thus, whereas it is the case that the Eastern Orthodox and other denominations such as Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism do observe the Sabbath

Interesting how seldom we find those groups on this particular Sabbath forum - defending Sabbath observance.

and the other decalogues in an appropriate manner for a Christian denomination, we are not to allow others to judge us

1 Others having a Sabbath-affirming position - is not "judging you"
2 Millions of Christians affirm the Sabbath by not editing it, and noting that no text claims to edit it. That is not "judging you"
3 Millions of Christians noting that the New Covenant includes God's Law as noted in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8 - is not "judging you" even though you differ with that POV

And furthermore, other Christians should not judge us, nor make statements implying that adherence to the Law is a neccessary requirement for salvation,

Millions of Christians urge that saved Christians should not
1. worship false gods
2. take God's name in vain

But that is not the same thing as arguing that by not taking God's name in vain - we are "earning salvation by works" or that "the law is the means of salvation"

Even the Catholic Church has those activities listed as "mortal sins" -- so it is not just Sabbath-affirming Christians that do not edit the Sabbath commandment who argue against breaking those commandments listed above.

since Scripture makes it clear that Christ our True God did willingly sacrifice Himself on the Cross that we might be spared the penalty for all our sins and transgressions, and in so doing glorified us, allowing those who believe on Him to receive life everlasting.
We do have forgiveness of sins in Christ.

Still we teach against things like dishonoring parents, adultery, taking God's name in vain, worship of false gods.

I think this point is obvious to a great many Christians today.

Likewise, traditional Christians should not comment negatively about Adventist practices concerning the Sabbath

I think those Christians who argue for a deleted Sabbath, or an edited Sabbath or an downsized Sabbath should be free to express their POV. They have free will

This does not mean we cannot discuss the divergent beliefs of our respective denominations

agreed

, but rather that harsh polemics directed at one denomination or the other for its specific doctrine

agreed.

We should not be condemning whole denominations who have some preference for ignoring or editing something in the Bible
You seem to be condemning your own position at the top of that post that says

Liturgist said: " it is the case that the Eastern Orthodox and other denominations such as Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism do observe the Sabbath and the other decalogues in an appropriate manner for a Christian denomination"


I like Jesus' POV

John 14:15 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

As the NT states

"Eph 6:1-2 the first commandment with a promise is - honor your father and mother"

1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 12:14 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus"

 

[BobRyan]

You don't need to keep the sabbath, Paul wrote about that.
The council of Jerusalem also, you would think if the sabbath was a salvation issue they would have been mentioned there.

The Acts 15 council only mentions this -
"19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from acts of sexual immorality;

As Acts 10:43 and Acts 13 demonstrate - gentile converts to worship of the one true God were already in the Synagogues every Sabbath even before becoming Christians.

The Acts 15 Jerusalem council did not mention the following
1. The command to not take God's name in vain
2. The command to not worship false gods - unless that is covered by "things - contaminated by idols"
3. The command against coveting
4. The command to keep the Sabbath
5. The command to honor father and mother.
6. The command to love God with all your heart
...

The idea that these are commandments that Christians should freely break goes against the teaching of Christ and Paul and the Bible in general.

 

[trophy33]

The Acts 15 Jerusalem council did not mention the following
1. The command to not take God's name in vain
2. The command to not worship false gods
3. The command against coveting
4. The command to keep the Sabbath
5. The command to honor father and mother.
6. The command to love God with all your heart
...

The idea that these are commandments that Christians should freely break goes against the teaching of Christ and Paul and the Bible in general.

Christians do not do evil things not because they are forbidden in the Mosaic Law, but because they are evil things.

Keeping the Sabbath, on the other hand, had its specific cultural Jewish context and is no general moral or ethical law. Therefore, Christians are free to ignore it.

 

[NBB]

The Acts 15 Jerusalem council did not mention the following
1. The command to not take God's name in vain
2. The command to not worship false gods
3. The command against coveting
4. The command to keep the Sabbath
5. The command to honor father and mother.
6. The command to love God with all your heart
...

The idea that these are commandments that Christians should freely break goes against the teaching of Christ and Paul and the Bible in general.

Because that is obvious, the idea wasn't to make a full list of sins. Was to tell what things to keep 'actively'. There were people that were saying christians should keep the law and Paul etc were angry about that.

 

[BobRyan]

Christians do not do evil things not because they are forbidden in the Mosaic Law

I see - so we do things that God wants - but not because the Bible tells us what God wants us to do -- since... "we are Christians"

It is amazing how seldom you hear that "not because the Bible says-so" preached from the pulpits.

It appears to me that the "not because the Bible says it" teaching is not as common as some might suppose

, but because they are evil things.

1 John 3:4 says that "what is an evil thing is determined by what God's Commandments say not to do" in a sense when it says
"Sin IS transgression of the Law"

And Rom 4 affirms it "where there is no LAW there is NO SIN"

1 John 3:4 "these things I write that you SIN NOT"

Keeping the Sabbath, on the other hand, had its specific cultural Jewish context

The Catholic Catechism says the Sabbath is for "mankind" not just Jews and Dies Domini says the same thing.
Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
In the OT we have this "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

and is no general moral or ethical law. Therefore, Christians are free to ignore it.

I have heard that suggestion before but I don't find it in scripture.

Rather as James says "he who breaks one commandment breaks them all"

As Deut 5 says "God spoke the ten - and added no more" where it is the ten that are kept inside the ark. The unit of Ten (rather than a unit of NINE) repeatedly referenced in the Bible.

When Eph 6:1-2 says "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" it is speaking of a specific unit of Ten - with a specific order in it as documented in the Word of God

 

[trophy33]

I see - so we do things that God wants - but not because the Bible tells us what God wants us to do

No, you obviously do not see. Because the Mosaic Law is not what Bible tells us God wants us, Gentile Christians, to do.

The Mosaic Law was what Bible tells us God wanted Jews to do. Until Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

The Acts 15 Jerusalem council did not mention the following
1. The command to not take God's name in vain
2. The command to not worship false gods
3. The command against coveting
4. The command to keep the Sabbath
5. The command to honor father and mother.
6. The command to love God with all your heart
...
The idea that these are commandments that Christians should freely break goes against the teaching of Christ and Paul and the Bible in general.

Because that is obvious, the idea wasn't to make a full list of sins.

Indeed - they were not deleting the Bible in Acts 15 or coming up with a 4-command short-version. Rather they were dealing with a specific problem (the problem of Christian Jews "making stuff up" not in OT or NT) rather than "every command in scripture"

Was to tell what things to keep 'actively'. There were people that were saying christians should keep the law and Paul etc were angry about that.

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB

I like Jesus' POV
John 14:15 "if you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
As the NT states
"Eph 6:1-2 the first commandment with a promise is - honor your father and mother"
1 John 5:3 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 12:14 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus"

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

 

[NBB]

I see - so we do things that God wants - but not because the Bible tells us what God wants us to do -- since... "we are Christians"

It is amazing how seldom you hear that "not because the Bible says-so" preached from the pulpits.

It appears to me that the "not because the Bible says it" teaching is not as common as some might suppose


1 John 3:4 says that "what is an evil thing is determined by what God's Commandments say not to do" in a sense when it says
"Sin IS transgression of the Law"

And Rom 4 affirms it "where there is no LAW there is NO SIN"

1 John 3:4 "these things I write that you SIN NOT"

The Catholic Catechism says the Sabbath is for "mankind" not just Jews and Dies Domini says the same thing.
Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
In the OT we have this "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

I have heard that suggestion before but I don't find it in scripture.

Rather as James says "he who breaks one commandment breaks them all"

As Deut 5 says "God spoke the ten - and added no more" where it is the ten that are kept inside the ark. The unit of Ten (rather than a unit of NINE) repeatedly referenced in the Bible.

When Eph 6:1-2 says "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" it is speaking of a specific unit of Ten - with a specific order in it as documented in the Word of God

Paul talks about the 'days', he just says everyone could make their own mind if they consider one that more important than the other.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul talks about the 'days', he just says everyone could make their own mind if they consider one that more important than the other.

Rom 14 says that one man observed one day above another while another man observes them all.
Gal 4 - Paul teaches the gentile church in Galatia that to observe even one pagan day is to forfeit Christianity when he says this

"how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? 10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

He says that if they return to observing their old pagan holy days as they did as former pagans - then they forfeit Christianity.

So then Rom 14's approval is not for the observance of pagan days - but rather the Bible approved list of holy days in Lev 23. And it is not approval for "observing no day" at all or ignoring one of "God's commandments" as the NT calls them.

Even under the OT system only 3 of the 7 annual ceremonial days in Lev 23 were required. And unlike the ceremonial annual days in Lev 23 the the 7th day of Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:8-11 are included in "The Ten" -- the moral law of God - "written on heart and mind" under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
" I see - so we do things that God wants - but not because the Bible tells us what God wants us to do "

No, you obviously do not see. Because the Mosaic Law is not what Bible tells us God wants us, Gentile Christians, to do.

seriously?

Eph 6:1-3
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth.

That's the Mosaic Law being quoted

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law.

That's the Mosaic Law being quoted

Rom 13 quotes it as well.

So also Matt 19

And in Mark 7:7-13 we told that "God's Word", "the Commandment of God" are in the form "For Moses said"

The Mosaic Law was what Bible tells us God wanted Jews to do. Until Christ.

No new testament text says "do not take God's name in vain".

The idea that the Ten were deleted for Jews and gentiles at the cross - is not supported in scripture.

No wonder almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You don't need to keep the sabbath, Paul wrote about that.

Paul never taught not to obey God’s commandments. He taught the opposite 1 Cor 7:19

The council of Jerusalem also, you would think if the sabbath was a salvation issue they would have been mentioned there.

They were already keeping every Sabbath Acts 15:21 so it is mentioned. They were not determining everything Gentiles should keep as they didn't even mention the greatest commandments and I hope Gentiles don’t believe we don’t have to love God with all our heart and love our neighbor, the foundation of the entire bible, so thats not what was going on at the council. The premise was that Gentiles needed to be circumcised in order to be saved Acts 15:1 which eliminates the need of the blood of Jesus. Paul had to correct this thinking several times in different letters. The gentiles were already joining the church services with the Jews on the Sabbath Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 so it was a moot point.

We do not keep God’s law to be saved, its a reflection that Jesus has changed us from the inside out and we are connected to the Vine abiding in Him and in doing so one would be keeping His commandments John 15:5-10 1 John 2:6

There is a salvation issue on misunderstanding Paul 2 Peter 3:15-16 so we need to be careful and compare our understanding of his writing to what Jesus taught and kept. The apotles taught we ought to obey God over man.

 

[The Liturgist]

Millions of Christians urge that saved Christians should not
1. worship false gods
2. take God's name in vain

Indeed, and no Christian denomination worships false gods, promotes the worship of false gods, or encourages members to blaspheme.

However people sin, but the point is that we can be forgiven for sin. Precise adherence to the law does not save, nor is it likely even possible, since we can, for example, commit adultery by mere lust.

1 Others having a Sabbath-affirming position - is not "judging you"
2 Millions of Christians affirm the Sabbath by not editing it, and noting that no text claims to edit it. That is not "judging you"
3 Millions of Christians noting that the New Covenant includes God's Law as noted in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8 - is not "judging you" even though you differ with that POV

No, but criticizing the Orthodox for the way in which we observe the Sabbath (which is one of the two days on which the Divine Liturgy can always be celebrated in the EO church, whereas weekdays during the Great Lent and on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of Holy Week are limited to the Presanctified Liturgy, or no Eucharistic liturgy at all in the case of Good Friday, only Vespers, Matins, the Typika and the Royal Hours), or denying that we are sabbath-affirming, would be judging us on our observance of the sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No one is judging, but showing what God said is the Sabbath, His personal written Testimony Exo 31:18 that no one is above, should be who we follow. We all have free will to accept or not accept what the God of the Bible said is the Sabbath.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

 

[The Liturgist]

There is a salvation issue on misunderstanding Paul 2 Peter 3:15-16 so we need to be careful and compare our understanding of his writing to what Jesus taught and kept.

Our Lord taught us “judge not, lest ye not be judged,” and St. Paul taught us not to permit others to judge us regarding our the observation of the Sabbath. Thus the plain meaning of St. Paul is clearly compatible with what our Lord taught. Since if we do not judge, neither should we allow others to judge us.

 

[The Liturgist]

No one is judging, but showing what God said is the Sabbath, His personal written Testimony that no one us above, should be who we follow. We all have free will to accept or not accept what God said.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

It would be judgmental to criticize another denomination on the manner of its sabbath observance.

Thus my only criticisms of the SDA pertain not to its Sabbath observance but rather to its definition of sola scriptura and also the relentless criticism of most other denominations, not just concerning their Sabbath observance, but on other issues as well.