Church Growth Discussion

[RamiC]

Well this is a space, in keeping with my Lent prayer theme for the Church of England, for ideas that might enable our churches to grow.

Quoting myself from another thread "Also in parts of this country where there is a lot of poverty, I have heard of priests checking that their graveyard is out of use, having the ground deconsecrated, and then starting a community vegetable garden around their church. They had plenty of volunteers to help with the gardening in exchange for free food from it when it grew, and from conversations while working on it, gardening volunteers ended up going to church. So certainly meeting needs in your community can get people to the Bible."

 

[Shane R]

A report I read from an African pastor this morning:

"Something happened on Sunday that impressed me.​

I happened to visit a children's home.​

Since I am a servant of God, his spirit led me to teach them about baptism, although I'd prepared to teach them about fasting.​

I took one stick and asked them what I had, one child responded, "kiboko" (Swahili for cane)​

Then I told them that God has kept the kiboko for all those who are not his children.​

Then I took another stick and combined them to form a cross and then I asked them what I had. They said "msalaba (cross)" Then I told them, this is what makes us God's children so that we avoid the cane.​

The I asked them how many are God's children? They all raised their hands.​

Again I asked how does one become a child of God?​

They all answered in unison, "kwa kubatizwa"(through baptism)​

I again asked them, ni wangapi wamebatizwa? (How many are baptized)​

At this only three raised their hands.​

That's when the reality dawned. I told them only those three are God's children, the rest are not.​

All of a sudden they were all willing and ready to be baptised. I left the task with their pastor to organize. Probably soon he's going to have them baptized."​

What struck me was the bit about the cane. If you came into an American institution and employed that illustration you would probably have your visititation privileges revoked. If you said that in a public school, I would fully expect one or more of the teachers to file an anonymouse complaint with Child Protective Services. Yet it worked in this African cultural context; clear effective teaching.

What's the takeaway for you? The immigrant population is often left alone or thoroughly misunderstood. Might be we have to say something that woulld make a white thoroughly uncomfortable to get through to those folks.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This is a big conversation.

My take is that the church was born on an existing Jewish community culture. This was formed with the wisdom of the Lord revealed through scripture and preserved through tradition.

Therefore the radical equality and love we read about in the early chapters of Acts was already birthed in the culture and was indeed necessary for the survival of the minority people group under threat, pressure and persecution.

So our Father intended to demonstrate a Godly way of living through Israel but they blew it. The church was to carry on this mandate but fell into similar problems over time.

The power and prestige associated with church leadership was too much for frail human kind looking to themselves for justification and identity and the opportunities for loving community were suppressed .

However the challenge remains - Jesus said in John 17 that the world would be attracted to the truth by the visible unity among believers. This was evident in Acts and attracted thousands to faith in short order.

So what we seem to have missed is that there should be two streams of authority working together.
The spiritual functions of the church and the practical functions of Christian community.

In this mode household heads directly accountable to God would function as priests in their family domain and break bread as they did at the beginning.

The heart of fellowship would centre on families and the gathering for worship in a district would compliment what Jesus was already doing in life.

In this mode Godly traditions are formed in the context of the age, and healthy community life is preserved.

Can we do this again and see the faith thrive ?

Yes... but human kingdoms around present church life would need to yield to grass roots initiatives and celebrate their legitimate spiritual function.

Have you noticed that a healthy function of faith is entirely missing from liturgy - personal testimony of what Jesus is doing.

This is because the expectation is that all legitimate spiritual activity will be within the institution.

 

[RileyG]

Prayers for the Anglican Communion throughout the world as they look towards the future

Blessings!

 

[Shane R]

It occurs to me that sometimes the person you intend to visit or speak to is not the one most in need of your time. I frequently encounter this phenomenon when I do visitations. My assistant that typically sets up our schedule is quite timid and can't break a narrow focus. However, I have learned to pack extra stuff and be open to extra work. If we go to the hospital, I've got enough oil to anoint the whole ward. If we are out doing communion, I've got enough for 2 extra tables. And it seems that, more often than not, we tap into the extra. Last time I was anointing he had scheduled 1 and I did 3.

On Ash Wednesday I had done 4 services of imposition of ashes, each in a different location. Then I took my daughter to jiu jitsu class and was approached by some of the homeschool families to explain Ash Wednesday to their children. So I gave an impromptu 5-6 minute lesson to early elementary students. This is not a group I am particularly comfortable with but I took a moment to meditate and was able to explain to the satisfaction of the children and the parents. I guess my point is to be open and flexible, also versatile. So much of apologetics, at least in the US, follows a script that answers questions no one is actually asking.

 

[RamiC]

Have you noticed that a healthy function of faith is entirely missing from liturgy - personal testimony of what Jesus is doing.

This is because the expectation is that all legitimate spiritual activity will be within the institution.

In my church we have various groups throughout the year where there are exchanges of personal testimony about what Jesus is doing, and has done in our lives. We have a Lent one on now. We had a reading about Julian of Norwich, then we took just three questions from it into smaller groups and discussed the answers there. The questions were personal and about an actual relationship with the Lord.

Jesus as an active influence in our lives also gets mentioned over coffee, and in chats with the clergy, so I do not see any need for this to also be part of Mass. I did surprise someone I met last week, saying that it is important to me that my church impacts on my faith every day of the week, not just Sunday. She is Orthodox, and she said she was surprised to hear an Anglican say that.

We have a bumper sticker that goes around here, it is from a dog rescue charity (stray dogs are not left on the street here, they will be carted off if found alone)...it says "A Dog is for Life, not just for Christmas". I am always saying this about angels, they are all the time, not just for Christmas! Jesus is for every day, not just Sunday.

 

[RamiC]

Ash Wednesday to their children. So I gave an impromptu 5-6 minute lesson to early elementary students. This is not a group I am particularly comfortable with but I took a moment to meditate and was able to explain to the satisfaction of the children and the parents.

I find wailing "Help, I don't have much contact with children, but I don't want to frighten them" helps a lot, but I am not sure if it would work for a Priest. Feel free to copy my line if it is useful...

 

[Paidiske]

I don't find young children the easiest to relate to, either, but you don't get to pick and choose in this work.

Big picture, I find that there are a lot of people who think God exists, who are interested in questions of spirituality and so on, but who have absolutely no confidence in the church as a resource for their spiritual life.

For those people, providing them with an opportunity to get involved and do something positive - whether it's volunteering with our food bank, or supporting various other "good works" - gives them an opportunity to get to know us, to see past the news headlines and the stereotypes, and to be invited to explore further.

And that is, in my experience, the most fruitful pathway to church growth. Churches which provide people with ways to get involved and make a difference before making a faith commitment, draw people in.

 

[RamiC]

Big picture, I find that there are a lot of people who think God exists, who are interested in questions of spirituality and so on, but who have absolutely no confidence in the church as a resource for their spiritual life.

This.

It is extremely difficult to convey the point that we want to help, and we can help, when those outside the church see it as an irrelevant, out of date institution, with a track record of hurting women and children, and the nasty people would not even let the King marry the Queen.

By being a member I can drop in some facts that balance the argument, like that we have a Fair Trade cafe in the corner, we are storing art that is of great cultural importance, and our work with newly arrived refugees, which are things people find harder to object to. In my case being able to point out that our Priest is a woman, so is our Safeguarding Officer, and our Families Minister, who does a superb job of attracting children to the place is about as good as it gets to counter the you hurt women and children argument.

The newspapers do not publish headlines like "Church was first source of Fair Trade food in the country.", or "Free Education was a Christian Idea".