Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

[Akita Suggagaki]

Trump has not acted that way towards any other of the many oval office visitors he's had. So obviously Zelenskyy provoked it.

Well it does not take much to "provoke" Trump and Vance. Just showing up in his black outfit was enough.

 

[Laodicean60]

Zelensky demonstrates bogus patriotism while sacrificing his own country and people.

He needs this war to continue because his political opponent has a strong following. If the war stops, the country should no longer be under martial law, and elections will possibly be held.

Maybe a short review would be helpful.

If we are going to review history, let's look at Putin's statement about Ukraine and Georgia. I think it's smart to listen to other nuclear superpowers.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

If we are going to review history, let's look at Putin's statement about Ukraine and Georgia. I think it's smart to listen to other nuclear superpowers.

You mean something in here? Address by the President of the Russian Federation

 

[Richard T]

Nope, there is already a wedge between the EU and both Trump administrations.


Do you think Putin's military is capable of doing this? Another thing that "might" happen is nuclear war if this continues, and like Trump, when that happens, it won't be good for anyone.

All in all, Zelenskyy has two options: make peace or lose US funding.

Amen!

Yes, the wedge is getting bigger though. Putin could widen it when he thinks he has a play. Perhaps he will bring in one or more of the former republics, or will use the gains from Ukraine to consolidate and then make a move. The one negative of this war is that Russia is building their war making capacity, something that China is excelling in as well. Lastly, another part of the world will blow up and create an opportunity for Russia action.

That is such an overblown item. All he said was, ""During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have a nice ocean and don't feel [it] now, but you will feel it in the future." And it was like a fuse was lite and nothing good came after that. Trump kept repeating himself. "
"Don't tell us what we're going to feel. You're in no position to dictate that," he said, his voice getting louder. "You don't have the cards right now," he told him. "You're gambling with millions of lives."

And on and on. It was like listening to dad and brother going no where but deeper into darkness.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is such an overblown item. All he said was, ""During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have a nice ocean and don't feel [it] now, but you will feel it in the future." And it was like a fuse was lite and nothing good came after that. Trump kept repeating himself. "
"Don't tell us what we're going to feel. You're in no position to dictate that," he said, his voice getting louder. "You don't have the cards right now," he told him. "You're gambling with millions of lives."

And on and on. It was like listening to dad and brother going no where but deeper into darkness.

Again, Trump was right.

The US isn't just going to hand over billions of taxpayer dollars to Ukraine.

Zelensky isn't used to this as he got what he wanted from Biden without debate.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

My other take on this is that Vance and Trump together are quite similar minded. That sometimes can be a good thing but they are not complementary. Instead they drive each other to be more radical. Pence or even Rubio would have reduced the amount of escalation.

De-escalation is a lost skill. At least Pence seemed to have the demeaner. Rubio is a smart guy but seem totally bought at this point.
One does not get anywhere in the Trump organization ( and that now means the entire GOP) without LOYALTY to Trump.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

BTW I said if from the beginning of this war, Putin will not be humiliated by being backed into a corner.
He'll use nuclear weapons if necessary and if the US keeps pushing as Biden did, we'll find ourselves in
WWIII.

 

[Richard T]

That is such an overblown item. All he said was, ""During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have a nice ocean and don't feel [it] now, but you will feel it in the future." And it was like a fuse was lite and nothing good came after that. Trump kept repeating himself. "
"Don't tell us what we're going to feel. You're in no position to dictate that," he said, his voice getting louder. "You don't have the cards right now," he told him. "You're gambling with millions of lives."

And on and on. It was like listening to dad and brother going no where but deeper into darkness.

That quote to me seemed prophetic. It ends with "But you will feel it in the future. God bless" I think after that, it went to or near a demonic level. Why? Not only was God named, but because if it is truth, the response often will contain great agitation.
My other take on this meeting, is that Vance and Trump together are quite similar minded. That sometimes can be a good thing but they are not complementary. Instead they drive each other to be more radical. Pence or even Rubio would have reduced the amount of escalation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Trump and Vance's security team must be on their toes as the Ukraine assassins supported by
the democrats might be in place to take them out. I hope and pray I'm wrong!

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The US isn't just going to hand over billions of taxpayer dollars to Ukraine.

It is not just about Ukraine. We have not been doing this for them only. We have security interests there,

 

[Richard T]

It was a threatening statement. I was offended when I heard it, but Vance could have kept his mouth shut. One thing that caught my ear as part of the security guarantee is that an American would be working over there.

This war has been in a stalemate for two years; it has been a slow meat grinder of a war of attrition. Has anyone forgotten that Ukraine is having a hard time fielding troops?

Few Americans would work in Ukraine. The USA does not protect their companies that much. When areas destabilize or have low security, many companies are smart and take a pass. I'm confused too about the split. how much will the government require from the actual companies that are doing the work? With lots of sunk costs in mining, and geo-political tensions still there, are we even sure these companies will show up? It seems like a government fantasy to be dividing profits without even a business or security plan. What bank would loan money under those conditions or is this just a purely socialist, government run operation with no security promise?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It is not just about Ukraine. We have not been doing this for them only. We have security interests there,

Really? Biden handed over billions in US dollars and weapons and now there is talk about missing money that
was given.

The escalation between Russia and Ukraine was warned about by Tulsi Gabbard and others.

Trump was turning down the heat with a peace deal which Zelensky rejected.

 

[Richard T]

What are we not seeing? That’s the real question.

Trump is infused with Russia and the truth which was ended with God bless, from President Z. really got under his skin. To me Trump's response was quite scary.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Trump was turning down the heat with a peace deal which Zelensky rejected.

What were the terms of that great deal?

 

[ozso]

Well it does not take much to "provoke" Trump and Vance.

Has never happened before with any other of the many others who have had oval office visits with Trump.

Just showing up in his black outfit was enough.

Oh yes, that's what it must've been alright.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What were the terms of that great deal?

Well one, Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. Not one American parent would want
their child sent to defend Ukraine.

Second, there was a deal for the US buy rare earth minerals from the Ukraine, which Ukraine could use
to rebuild their country.

Third, Ukraine would have to let Russia take Crimea, which they had anyway, and parts of Donbas, which again was
populated by mostly Russians.

In exchange, Russia would not go further into Ukraine but leave that part of the country in peace. UN peacekeepers
would be in place to monitor the situation.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

In exchange, Russia would not go further into Ukraine but leave that part of the country in peace. UN peacekeepers
would be in place to monitor the situation.

That is the most naïve part that Zelensky seems to take issue with. How effective can UN peacekeepers be containing Putin?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is the most naïve part that Zelensky seems to take issue with. How effective ca un peacekeepers be containing Putin?

Don't know until Putin or Ukraine violates the agreement. Until then, it's better than staying at war.

 

[Laodicean60]

Yes, the wedge is getting bigger though.

It won't change because liberal and conservatives don't think alike, and in today's politics, no one will reach across the table. If the EU wants to continue

Few Americans would work in Ukraine.

How do you know? In my youth, I wanted to work overseas and bring back FEIE money.

The USA does not protect their companies that much. When areas destabilize or have low security, many companies are smart and take a pass.

So let me get this straight: when Russia invades Ukraine again and targets American companies, killing American workers, you don't think the USA will respond? It's only common sense we do. There is nothing wrong with neutrality, even allowing Russian companies to enter the market.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Don't know until Putin or Ukraine violates the agreement. Until then, it's better than staying at war.

Maybe skilled negotiators could have worked toward that. Trump and Vance seemed to have other purpose and motive. As if to show the world we stand with Russia and Zelensky is the bad guy. They baited him and pounced. Rather than de-escalating they looked for opportunities to escalate. "Respect"? "Thanks"? Is that what this was all about? They been watching to many Godfather movies.