Why Believe Evolution Theories?

[1Tonne]

To publicly assert that one sentence uttered by anyone “PROVES” anything, let alone that the vast majority of people in the world are utterly deluded false accusers will be seen by every wise man in the world as the ramblings of an arrogant madman, and certainly it was not the way of truth.

Do you think the peacemakers shall consider good that which you say accuses them of evil or glorify that which you say you do? Does God draw them by beating them over the head and accusing them of blind delusion.

Who judges those without?

But who are you to judge?

Why then do you judge those who are without? Are you God?

Is it not kindness and long suffering and meekness of wisdom and compassion that shall lead the righteous to life and to glorify the prize?

Do you think I shall be able to drive wisdom into you with stripes any more than you will be able to drive wisdom into those who are without by stripes?

And yet you say that you are within and have been opened to wisdom and are a faithful steward of it, even a teacher of it, as all the normal brothers of yours of 2025 who do likewise and conform to your way and in whom you trust.

Do you know why Peter said that the way of truth would be evil spoken of or see any resemblance with those that fulfill the prophecy, walking away from the mirror and forgetting what manner of men they were?

Zechariah 5:6 KJV
And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.

The three measures of meal are all leavened and puffed up and you are a chief among them, but in meekness of wisdom and humility, peace reigns.

Sorry. I am not answering you. You still seem to be very angry from that last conversation we had. And once again, I struggle to see your point in what you say. Please watch the video that I linked earlier before commenting. That should solve your issues with evolution.

I think evolution is a generally true description of the historical processes we see evidenced in nature.

What evidence? The fossil evidence? There is none. Evolution is simply a theory that people have put their faith in.

 

[CoreyD]

@1Tonne I saw that video before. It's average. Not one I consider impressive though.
I do like your reasoning though. There are lots of ways to demonstrate that the ideas surrounding the theory of evolution are based, not on what we observe, but what scientists theorize.

Even reputable scientists, including biologists, tell us we do not observe evolution, as the theory presents.
One has to simply believe what they think. Make believe.

I'm surprised though that persons identifying as Christian, would think that the majority of people in this world must be right. That is surprising, considering what God reveals to his people.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What evidence? The fossil evidence? There is none. Evolution is simply a theory that people have put their faith in.

1Tonne, I'm not here to persuade any fellow Christians to accept the Theory of Evolution.

If you don't want to accept it, then don't. That's not a problem with me. I was simply answering the OP question.

 

[1Tonne]

1Tonne, I'm not here to persuade any fellow Christians to accept the Theory of Evolution.

If you don't want to accept it, then don't. That's not a problem with me. I was simply answering the OP question.

That is fine. I was simply arguing the point of creation as it is the topic at hand.
Sadly, too many believers accept that evolution is correct because the scientists say so. But what they do not realize is that there is also scientist that disagree with evolution, and they come up with very good evidence as to why they think it is incorrect. I often go to Answers in Genesis as they are a group of scientists who argue for creation and against evolution. They have good stuff. Check out:

Answers in Genesis

Subscribe now to learn how to defend the Christian faith. Answers in Genesis is an apologetics (Christianity-defending) ministry dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ effectively. On our YouTube channel, you’ll find answers to your...

www.youtube.com

 

[River Jordan]

When Jesus said, "In the beginning", He wasn't being poetic.

I didn't say He was, I pointed out how Genesis 1:27 reads like poetry or a song.

He may have been talking about marriage, but He was referring back to the very beginning to show why a man and woman come together. We can't get away from that or explain it away without doing a bad exegesis.

But I don't see any indication that He was referring to how humans were created.

I have watched hundreds of his videos. Please link one video in which he is dishonest. I bet you can't and that it is simply your opinion because you believe in evolution over what Jesus said. (You need to be able to back your words when you call someone dishonest or a liar)

Ray first asked if the guy would be willing to kill a husband who abused his wife, but later edited the video and changed the question to whether he would kill a husband who was merely a "rat".

Did you watch Atheist Delusion? If not, then you need to watch it.

Why? I'm not an atheist.

We do agree with change over time. Yes. Micro evolution, adaptation within a type. Yes.
But if you mean molecules to a man without any intelligence. Then No!

Are you ok with theistic evolution?

If we look at the fossil record, we see that the major body plans or types of animals all appeared virtually instantaneously in what is called the Cambrian Explosion. The animals all came into existence instantly without any previous fossils or precursors. Even Darwin himself had doubts about his theory because it seemed as though animals all came into existence at the same time. He wondered why there were no intermediate types of fossils. But, He believed that if we kept looking, then we would eventually find the missing fossils. Well, we have now been searching for more than 150 years, and we have not found them. So, there is no fossil evidence.

I have to ask, how do you know all that? Just below you say you're not a scientist so how did you get to be such an expert in paleontology?

Also, the Cambrian explosion took place over tens of millions of years, not "instantaneously". And there are most definitely fossils from pre-Cambrian times, such as the Ediacran fauna. The Ediacaran Period

I am not a scientist and so I cannot answer this. (I am no science major, and this will start to go over my head). Maybe they may have made something in a lab. But to start making it, they needed something there in the first place. Scientists cannot make something out of nothing.

You don't have to be a scientist to say whether or not you believe God creates every genetic sequence. Do you?

A scientific method is based on: “The collection of data through observation and experimentation”. If you cannot observe the experiment, then it is not scientifically proven. Especially when something happens over time.
How can someone observe evolution when the process is said to be over millions of years? Answer, you can't

FYI I'm a biologist, so there's no need to lecture me about science. And no, we don't have to directly observe something happening before we can conclude that it did, study it, and reach conclusions about the how, where, and when.

If we couldn't then the scientific fields of archaeology, forensics, and much of genetics couldn't exist.

In the end, there is no evidence for Darwinian evolution. How can you observe and test something that happened 60 million years ago? It doesn't pass a scientific test. It has to be received by Blind Faith. So, who do you have more faith in, the theory of evolution or do you believe the words of Jesus?

There's no need IMO to pit the two against each other, especially since we actually see evolution take place. I highly doubt God intends for us to deny what we can easily see.

 

[River Jordan]

Can you give me at least one clear reason, that is not a vague response, why it is a reasonable conclusion?

Because we see evolution taking place and producing things like new genetic sequences and species.

You aren't saying that reputable Biologist, Geneticists, and Paleontologist that do not believe, don't know what they are doing, are you?

Like who?

When scientists that people "look up to" admit they were wrong, and that they could be wrong even now, does that do anything to your view that they "generally know what they're doing"?
If not, why not?

I don't know any scientists who think they're infallible, so I'm not clear on the point of your question.

May I ask... Did you ask this question with the view that those who have spent their "time studying the science of evolutionary biology" believe, but say they don't?
Or did you ask the question because you feel it is only those who are not in the science of evolutionary Biology that don't believe, because they "don't understand"?

I asked because you spoke as an authority on the science of evolutionary biology. Are you?

I'm not sure if this is the case, but are you confusing the theory with the actual changes we see?
I asked, because both are not the same thing.
One tries to explain the other, and there are lots of things we do not see, which can only be seen if we live about a billion years... which is what I am referring to.

We don't need to see something happen before we can conclude that it did.

Can you give me an example of evolution you have seen, so that I can be certain we are "on the same page"

I've done lab experiments where we saw and studied microorganisms evolving and I've been involved in field work that was focused on the evolution of a new species of plant.

If this is going to be an appeal to authority fallacy, perhaps we may be headed the wrong direction.
Only eight people were saved during the flood of Noah's day 1 Peter 3:20, and Jesus said that the majority are on the broad road to destruction. Matthew 7:13, 14

That's not an answer to the question I asked. Let's try again: why do you think so many scientists across the world have all generally agreed on evolution for so long?

Also, the appeal to authority fallacy is something like "the experts say it's true, therefore it is true". I didn't do that.

Would you mind telling me how you understand Genesis 2:17, 19, 21, 22.
I'd really appreciate that, thanks.

I read the Genesis accounts similar to how a lot of Jewish people read them, not as a newspaper article but as more about conveying larger, deeper concepts like God's love for us, our sinful nature, and God's forgiveness.

 

[River Jordan]

The idea of evolution did not exist in the time of Jesus, so you are correct, he was not making a point about something nonexistent.
What @1Tonne is saying, is that by his words... which are true, Jesus disproved the theory, because he said, "He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE." Bold text, not mine. Matthew 19:4

He is saying that Jesus confirmed that his father created a male and female human, and not a microorganism that evolved to be a fish, which evolved to be a lizard, which evolved to be.... You understand.
What is your response to that?

Except Jesus didn't say how God made them, nor did He say anything about the other things in your post.

 

[1Tonne]

Ray first asked if the guy would be willing to kill a husband who abused his wife, but later edited the video and changed the question to whether he would kill a husband who was merely a "rat".

In the first clip, Ray does ask if the guy would kill the husband if he was a rat. Ray then goes into a little bit of the detail but overall, we know that he is a rat. Then in the second video, he also says that the wife wants to get rid of the husband because he is a rat. It does not matter how big of a rat the husband is. He is still a rat. You will notice that the narrator tries to reframe the wording of Ray and effectively makes the listener think that the question is different, and that Ray is lying, but it is the narrator is being deceitful. There is no lie here.
The fact that in one video Ray says that the husband is a rat and that he abuses the wife does not change the meaning of the question. Ray states the husband is not good in both videos. The husband is a rat. It does not matter how big of a rat he is. He is still a rat in her opinion. The question still remains, would you kill anyone's husband for $10,000,000 if you were told he was a rat?
First video transcript "A very rich lady wants to get rid of her husband. He's a rat." Ray then goes into a little detail.
Second video transcript "This lady wants to get rid of her husband she says he's a rat." Ray does not go into detail, but we still know he's rat of a man.
Really, this video gives credit to Ray. Those who speak the truth will have people who will try to discredit them. That is what Satan does.

If you are fooled by a little edit so easily, how much more could you be fooled by schoolteachers speaking about evolution? (Saying this respectfully. Just making a point)

Why? I'm not an atheist.

I asked if you watched Atheist Delusion because some Christians believe in the scientific impossibility that, nothing created everything.

Are you ok with theistic evolution?

No. The Bible says when Adam sinned that death entered into the world. But if we believe in evolution then animals have to live and die and slowly evolve to make people. So, with theistic evolution, death was already in the world before Adam and Eve sinned. So, either the bible is lying or theistic evolution is incorrect.

I have to ask, how do you know all that? Just below you say you're not a scientist so how did you get to be such an expert in paleontology?

Also, the Cambrian explosion took place over tens of millions of years, not "instantaneously". And there are most definitely fossils from pre-Cambrian times, such as the Ediacran fauna. The Ediacaran Period

There is still no previous fossil record. The animals were not there and then all of a sudden, they are there. There was no transitional stages. They just appeared in the Cambrian period.

And also from what scientists have said. Check out Answers in Genisis.

Answers in Genesis

Subscribe now to learn how to defend the Christian faith. Answers in Genesis is an apologetics (Christianity-defending) ministry dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ effectively. On our YouTube channel, you’ll find answers to your...

www.youtube.com

FYI I'm a biologist, so there's no need to lecture me about science.

Cool. So, if you are interested in that field then I am sure you will watch many videos from Answers in Genisis.

And no, we don't have to directly observe something happening before we can conclude that it did, study it, and reach conclusions about the how, where, and when.

If we couldn't then the scientific fields of archaeology, forensics, and much of genetics couldn't exist.

So, you can guarantee that there were no major changes in decay over the millions of years? You can guarantee that everything is constant?

There's no need IMO to pit the two against each other,

Either the Bible is lying or evolution is false.

especially since we actually see evolution take place.

We do see adaption taking place. But show me the evidence of Darwinian Evolution? Where we see cats changing into fish.

Because we see evolution taking place and producing things like new genetic sequences and species.

So, a breed of cat mated with another breed making a new breed. So, they are still cats? Where is the Darwinian Evolution?

why do you think so many scientists across the world have all generally agreed on evolution for so long?

Because, if they admit that creation is correct, then they have to submit and obey God. But people love their sins and so they will make up all sorts of theories to explain God away.
We have scientists who choose to honour God as well and they believe in creationism.

Except Jesus didn't say how God made them, nor did He say anything about the other things in your post.

Yes, He did. He spoke things into being and they were there. He said, "Let there be light", and there was light and it was good. God does not need science to make a miracle.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That is fine. I was simply arguing the point of creation as it is the topic at hand.
Sadly, too many believers accept that evolution is correct because the scientists say so. But what they do not realize is that there is also scientist that disagree with evolution, and they come up with very good evidence as to why they think it is incorrect. I often go to Answers in Genesis as they are a group of scientists who argue for creation and against evolution. They have good stuff. Check out:

Answers in Genesis

Subscribe now to learn how to defend the Christian faith. Answers in Genesis is an apologetics (Christianity-defending) ministry dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ effectively. On our YouTube channel, you’ll find answers to your...

www.youtube.com

I appreciate the link, but I'm already familiar with AiG and have been for quite some time. I've already checked it out and did so long ago, just as I have also been aware of the Institute for Creation Research, along with the Discovery Institute, and also BioLogos.

So, thanks for the suggestion, brother, but I've been an evolutionist ever since I was a child and picked up my first dinosaur book.

It's too late for me.

 

[Reneep]

" I tend to think context is important. In this case, that Jesus was speaking specifically about marriage and divorce is ......" isnt the real context what he " created "? When he separated woman from man then created sex organs so that they can become flesh.. that is is all about his creation, His ideas and plans from before the begining of his creations .

is. Plans from the start !

 

[Reneep]

Oh wow THAT VIDEO... they are starting to figure out God concept of the " type " which is the about 97% of the equation , the remaining about 3% is DNA AND just the paint job. Oh I knew that if or when they finally asked then answered the right question, they would know there is no room for evolution. What did he call it " Epigenetics "? I Got to study that BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE GETTING A CLUE FROM OUR CREATOR ABOUT HOW HE DOES IT. YOU ARE AWESOME LORD ! This is great they are sneaking upon it. Precept on precept.

 

[Job 33:6]

I'm interested in hearing why persons here believe in the theory of evolution.
I'm not here to knock anyone's beliefs, since we all have reasons for believing things, but I would like to hear why persons here believe for example, that human beings evolved from a microscopic, bag-like sea creature, or some other microscopic organism.

What convinces you that ideas of this nature are more believable than what the Bible says?
For example, the Bible tells us in the book of Genesis Chapters 1, and 2, how humans as well as various living creatures came about.... which contradicts the ideas presented by those believing in the theories of evolution.

Obviously, both cannot be right, and while it is, many believe that there is evidence to support the ideas surrounding evolution, there are simply beliefs - ideas, or hypotheses, which are based on ideas (hypotheses), in support of the theory of evolution.

For example, the idea that hibernation evolved, has many hypotheses... none of which can be verified.
It is suggested that hibernation likely evolved simultaneously with endothermy, with the earliest suggested instance of hibernation being in Thrinaxodon, an ancestor of mammals that lived roughly 252 million years ago.

In order to conserve energy, the ancestors of birds and mammals would likely have experienced an early form of torpor or hibernation when they were not using their thermoregulatory abilities during the transition from ectothermy to endothermy. This is opposed to the previously dominant hypothesis that hibernation evolved after endothermy in response to the emergence of colder habitats.

There is evidence that hibernation evolved separately in marsupials and placental mammals, though it is not settled.

This is common with belief in evolution theories.
Although there are uncertainties, and no foundational base for the ideas, such that the cause and purpose of these arousals are still not clear; the question of why hibernators may return periodically to normal body temperatures has plagued researchers for decades, and while there is still no clear-cut explanation, there are multiple hypotheses on the topic, the individuals promoting belief in the theory of evolution assertively tell us, they have the answers to what happened, and why it happened.
Yet, how can that be true, when there are simply promoting ideas, for which there are many.

Are there any good reasons for believing the theories of evolution.
Why do you believe those theories?

Additionally, do you believe Genesis 2:19?

I'm interested in hearing why persons here believe in the theory of evolution.
I'm not here to knock anyone's beliefs, since we all have reasons for believing things, but I would like to hear why persons here believe for example, that human beings evolved from a microscopic, bag-like sea creature, or some other microscopic organism.

What convinces you that ideas of this nature are more believable than what the Bible says?
For example, the Bible tells us in the book of Genesis Chapters 1, and 2, how humans as well as various living creatures came about.... which contradicts the ideas presented by those believing in the theories of evolution.

Obviously, both cannot be right, and while it is, many believe that there is evidence to support the ideas surrounding evolution, there are simply beliefs - ideas, or hypotheses, which are based on ideas (hypotheses), in support of the theory of evolution.

For example, the idea that hibernation evolved, has many hypotheses... none of which can be verified.
It is suggested that hibernation likely evolved simultaneously with endothermy, with the earliest suggested instance of hibernation being in Thrinaxodon, an ancestor of mammals that lived roughly 252 million years ago.

In order to conserve energy, the ancestors of birds and mammals would likely have experienced an early form of torpor or hibernation when they were not using their thermoregulatory abilities during the transition from ectothermy to endothermy. This is opposed to the previously dominant hypothesis that hibernation evolved after endothermy in response to the emergence of colder habitats.

There is evidence that hibernation evolved separately in marsupials and placental mammals, though it is not settled.

This is common with belief in evolution theories.
Although there are uncertainties, and no foundational base for the ideas, such that the cause and purpose of these arousals are still not clear; the question of why hibernators may return periodically to normal body temperatures has plagued researchers for decades, and while there is still no clear-cut explanation, there are multiple hypotheses on the topic, the individuals promoting belief in the theory of evolution assertively tell us, they have the answers to what happened, and why it happened.
Yet, how can that be true, when there are simply promoting ideas, for which there are many.

Are there any good reasons for believing the theories of evolution.
Why do you believe those theories?

Additionally, do you believe Genesis 2:19?

All people are made of dust. Not just Adam.

"You will not find any Scripture that any other man was formed from the dust of the earth. That is just your own biased imaginations."

Ecclesiastes 3:20 states: "All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 states "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it."

Not only are there other men formed from dust of the earth, but indeed, all of mankind is dust from the earth. And there are many passages about this in the old testament. That's why Adam is Adam, he represents us all. We are dust because he first was dust. We sin because he first sinned etc.

But this isn't about biology. It's about our nature as earthly mortal beings (as opposed to heavenly supernatural beings).

Job 10:9 "Remember that you have formed me like clay; and will you return me to the dust?"

Psalm 103:14 "For he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust."

Genesis 18:27, Abraham says: "I am but dust and ashes."

Psalm 90:3: "You return man to dust, saying, 'Return, O sons of mortals'"

Isaiah 26:19: Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!" (dust is of the earth)

etc.

The Bible is not a science textbook.

 

[River Jordan]

In the first clip, Ray does ask if the guy would kill the husband if he was a rat. Ray then goes into a little bit of the detail but overall, we know that he is a rat. Then in the second video, he also says that the wife wants to get rid of the husband because he is a rat. It does not matter how big of a rat the husband is. He is still a rat. You will notice that the narrator tries to reframe the wording of Ray and effectively makes the listener think that the question is different, and that Ray is lying, but it is the narrator is being deceitful. There is no lie here.
The fact that in one video Ray says that the husband is a rat and that he abuses the wife does not change the meaning of the question. Ray states the husband is not good in both videos. The husband is a rat. It does not matter how big of a rat he is. He is still a rat in her opinion. The question still remains, would you kill anyone's husband for $10,000,000 if you were told he was a rat?
First video transcript "A very rich lady wants to get rid of her husband. He's a rat." Ray then goes into a little detail.
Second video transcript "This lady wants to get rid of her husband she says he's a rat." Ray does not go into detail, but we still know he's rat of a man.
Really, this video gives credit to Ray. Those who speak the truth will have people who will try to discredit them. That is what Satan does.

If you are fooled by a little edit so easily, how much more could you be fooled by schoolteachers speaking about evolution? (Saying this respectfully. Just making a point)

First video

Ray C.: "A very rich lady wants to get rid of her husband. He's a rat. He beats her up. He's just a nasty dude. She wants to get rid of him. She's going to pay you $10 million. All you have to do, when she takes him out of her room, is step through the door where you've been hiding, drop an arsenic pill into his coffee, and you get $10 million. Would you do it? And you will not get caught, once again, for sure."​

​

First man: "Yes."​

​

Ray C (to second man): "What about you?"​

​

Second man: "I'd do it for free."​

​

Ray C: "Oh cut it out."​

​

Second man: "Oh I would."​

​

Ray C: "You'd kill a guy if he was a rat?"​

​

Second man: "Yeah, if he was evil enough and did bad things."​

​

Ray C: "You'd just take him out?"​

​

Second man: nods​

​

Ray C: "Remind me to never upset you!"​

​

<laughter>​

​

Ray C (to first man): "And he's your friend?"​

​

First man: "Yes he is."​

​

Ray C: "Be nice to him, ok? So um, would you do it for $10 million?"​

​

First man: "Yes."​

​

Ray C: "So you would become a murderer for $10 million?"​

​

<end>​

Second video

(montage of Ray C asking the following question to different groups of people, including the two men from the first video)​

​

Ray C: "I have a dilemma for you. This lady wants to get rid of her husband. She says he's a rat. All you have to do is drop one tablet of arsenic in his coffee when he's not looking. You will get away with it, you will not get caught, and she'll give you $10 million cash. Would you do it?"​

​

Clip of first man from video 1: "Yes."​

​

Clip of second man from video 1: "I'd do it for free."​

​

Ray C (from video 1): "Oh cut it out."​

I'll let people decide for themselves what that is.

I asked if you watched Atheist Delusion because some Christians believe in the scientific impossibility that, nothing created everything.

Like who?

No. The Bible says when Adam sinned that death entered into the world. But if we believe in evolution then animals have to live and die and slowly evolve to make people. So, with theistic evolution, death was already in the world before Adam and Eve sinned. So, either the bible is lying or theistic evolution is incorrect.

Well not all Christians agree with that interpretation, and it's actually a minority view in the faith. That's ok though, if it works for you then God bless.

There is still no previous fossil record.

Then I guess there's not much hope of us having an actual discussion about this, if after I give you a link to a page full of pre-Cambrian fossils you reply like that. It's nothing more than empty gainsaying.

Cool. So, if you are interested in that field then I am sure you will watch many videos from Answers in Genisis.

Thank you. I've seen much of AiG's material.

So, you can guarantee that there were no major changes in decay over the millions of years? You can guarantee that everything is constant?

Well if you know of a way to speed up nuclear decay, then please let everyone know! You'd solve all our energy problems and all kinds of other things!

Either the Bible is lying or evolution is false.

Thanks for sharing your interpretation.

We do see adaption taking place. But show me the evidence of Darwinian Evolution? Where we see cats changing into fish.

Don't be ridiculous. If you don't want to take our exchange seriously, please say so.

So, a breed of cat mated with another breed making a new breed. So, they are still cats? Where is the Darwinian Evolution?

I guess you don't know that "cat" is not a species, and is instead a family (Felidae).

Because, if they admit that creation is correct, then they have to submit and obey God. But people love their sins and so they will make up all sorts of theories to explain God away.
We have scientists who choose to honour God as well and they believe in creationism.

Wait a second. Are you accusing me of not being a Christian? Are you saying all my friends, co-workers, church members, Pastor, who are fine with evolution aren't really Christians?

Where did you get the belief that evolution is a salvation make or break point? I don't remember any scripture saying that. Did you just make it up?

Yes, He did. He spoke things into being and they were there. He said, "Let there be light", and there was light and it was good. God does not need science to make a miracle.

I think you lost track of how we were talking about Jesus' answer to the Pharisees' question about divorce.

 

[1Tonne]

First video

Ray C.: "A very rich lady wants to get rid of her husband. He's a rat. He beats her up. He's just a nasty dude. She wants to get rid of him. She's going to pay you $10 million. All you have to do, when she takes him out of her room, is step through the door where you've been hiding, drop an arsenic pill into his coffee, and you get $10 million. Would you do it? And you will not get caught, once again, for sure."First man: "Yes."Ray C (to second man): "What about you?"Second man: "I'd do it for free."Ray C: "Oh cut it out."Second man: "Oh I would."Ray C: "You'd kill a guy if he was a rat?"Second man: "Yeah, if he was evil enough and did bad things."Ray C: "You'd just take him out?"Second man: nodsRay C: "Remind me to never upset you!"<laughter>Ray C (to first man): "And he's your friend?"First man: "Yes he is."Ray C: "Be nice to him, ok? So um, would you do it for $10 million?"First man: "Yes."Ray C: "So you would become a murderer for $10 million?"<end>
Second video

(montage of Ray C asking the following question to different groups of people, including the two men from the first video)Ray C: "I have a dilemma for you. This lady wants to get rid of her husband. She says he's a rat. All you have to do is drop one tablet of arsenic in his coffee when he's not looking. You will get away with it, you will not get caught, and she'll give you $10 million cash. Would you do it?"Clip of first man from video 1: "Yes."Clip of second man from video 1: "I'd do it for free."Ray C (from video 1): "Oh cut it out."
I'll let people decide for themselves what that is.

It's pretty obvious. It is the same argument in both videos.
So, if you are easily tricked by a simple edit, could you be tricked into thinking something like evolution is real? The answer is yes.

Well not all Christians agree with that interpretation, and it's actually a minority view in the faith. That's ok though, if it works for you then God bless.

Do you have evidence that it is the minority view in faith? Or are you simply putting your faith into thin air as with evolution?

Then I guess there's not much hope of us having an actual discussion about this, if after I give you a link to a page full of pre-Cambrian fossils you reply like that. It's nothing more than empty gainsaying.

There is no evidence in what you sent me. I need evidence. So, evidence that macroscopic organisms becoming people? There are fossils but no intermediate stages. They simply found a fossil that was in the time before the Cambrian period, the Ediacaran, and you class that as 100% evidence that this is evolution.
Where is the fossil evidence that these changed and became people? There is no evidence No intermediate stages. Only a theory which biologist put their faith in.

Well if you know of a way to speed up nuclear decay, then please let everyone know! You'd solve all our energy problems and all kinds of other things!

So, you cannot guarantee that everything is constant.

Wait a second. Are you accusing me of not being a Christian? Are you saying all my friends, co-workers, church members, Pastor, who are fine with evolution aren't really Christians?

Where did you get the belief that evolution is a salvation make or break point? I don't remember any scripture saying that. Did you just make it up?

Unbelief and Its Consequences Romans 1:18-23​

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures."

Many people profess to believe but, in the end, they do not even trust the very foundation of God's word. Genisis. They say the creation account cannot be trusted and that it was simply poetic. So, they suppress the truth of what is written in the Bible with a lie. In God's creation, there is evidence that God made everything and God has made this known to all men. When you give creation the glory instead of God, it is like you are worshipping the creation instead of the creator. You profess to know God but you are not giving honour and thanks to Him. Instead in your own wisdom, proffessing to be wise, you give honour and thanks to the birds, four-footed animals and crawling creatures because they evolved. That is really wrong. The first commandment is that you shall have no other Gods before Him. The second is that you shall not make any idols. If you do make an idol, you will then give it glory. And this is what biologists do with evolution. They give glory to the creation instead of the creator. They say it was the creation that got us where we are today, we all evolved. So, in their own wisdom, they elevate evolution over God.

​

 

[River Jordan]

It's pretty obvious. It is the same argument in both videos.

I don't know how you can say that, so we'll have to disagree.

Do you have evidence that it is the minority view in faith? Or are you simply putting your faith into thin air as with evolution?

You know, there's no need to be so nasty.

The Catholics, Orthodox, Presbyterian, Evangelical Lutheran, Episcopal, Anglican, and a host of other Christian denominations all accept the reality of evolution. Strong majorities of the populations in European countries, which are majority Christian, agree with evolution.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1126746

There is no evidence in what you sent me.

Again you're just gainsaying. You said there were no pre-Cambrian fossils, I posted a link to a webpage full of examples of pre-Cambrian fossils.

Your reply does nothing to negate that.

I need evidence. So, evidence that macroscopic organisms becoming people? There are fossils but no intermediate stages. They simply found a fossil that was in the time before the Cambrian period, the Ediacaran, and you class that as 100% evidence that this is evolution.
Where is the fossil evidence that these changed and became people? There is no evidence No intermediate stages. Only a theory which biologist put their faith in.

Earlier you said you weren't a scientist. I also asked how you came to know so much about paleontology and you didn't answer. Since you're still speaking as an authority on fossils I'll ask again, how do you know so much about paleontology?

So, you cannot guarantee that everything is constant.

You can't guarantee anything.

Unbelief and Its Consequences Romans 1:18-23​

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures."

Many people profess to believe but, in the end, they do not even trust the very foundation of God's word. Genisis. They say the creation account cannot be trusted and that it was simply poetic. So, they suppress the truth of what is written in the Bible with a lie. In God's creation, there is evidence that God made everything and God has made this known to all men. When you give creation the glory instead of God, it is like you are worshipping the creation instead of the creator. You profess to know God but you are not giving honour and thanks to Him. Instead in your own wisdom, proffessing to be wise, you give honour and thanks to the birds, four-footed animals and crawling creatures because they evolved. That is really wrong. The first commandment is that you shall have no other Gods before Him. The second is that you shall not make any idols. If you do make an idol, you will then give it glory. And this is what biologists do with evolution. They give glory to the creation instead of the creator. They say it was the creation that got us where we are today, we all evolved. So, in their own wisdom, they elevate evolution over God.

​

None of what you quoted from scripture says anything about evolution being a salvation breaking point.

 

[CoreyD]

I assume you like Comfort's argument about houses needing builders, right? If that's so, then it should matter that we actually do see evolution "building" things like new nucleotide sequences and species. So sticking with his analogy, we kind of do see "houses building themselves", with "houses" being species and genetics and "building" being "evolution".

I'm concerned now, so I have to say this.
You need to be careful with this. Here is why.

If you went to a factory, and observed actual machines "pouring" milk; dicing vegetables; mixing ingredients together; etc., and the end result are pans of cheese, cakes, or some other product, would you credit the factory with being the cake maker, or chocolate maker?
Or would you credit the manufacturer that built the factory, and the hard working men and women, who gathered the products to feed the machines?

If you did the former, you are discrediting the intelligent agents, and praising the design - giving that the glory which is due to the agent.
Do you see where this is going?

Romans 1:21-23 says of the worldly wise...
For having known God, they glorified Him not as God, or were thankful; but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and they changed the glory of the immortal God into a likeness of an image of mortal man and birds and quadrupeds and creeping things.

How sad, that people actually glorify, and make a deity creation, rather than the creator.
The Bible says the creation brings glory to God. Not the other way around.

Your immune system works, not because it is a product of evolution, but because the builder designed it that way.
Your vehicle works because the manufactures put each part in place, to perform the function it carries out.
Factories do exactly what the designer made it to do.
The biological factories do not make themselves do what they do.... Does that not make sense to you?

I thought I'd better mention this.
The world's thinking is declining rapidly away from God, and true wisdom.
Christians need to be careful about the path they are taking, especially when "higher" learning, and degrees takes us on a collision course with the maker of the universe.

Also, the "argument about houses needing builders", isn't Comfort's. It's a basic principle found in the Christian's sword - God's word (Hebrews 3:4)... that cuts away the world's wisdom, which is foolishness. 1 Corinthians 3:19

Paul encourages using rationality and, reasonableness, and a sound mind, so that we are not molded by this world that is under Satan's control.
Romans 12:1, 2

1 Therefore I exhort you, brothers, through the compassions of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy to God, well-pleasing, which is your reasonable service. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.​

I'm saying this out of concern.
Be careful.

1Tonne, I'm not here to persuade any fellow Christians to accept the Theory of Evolution.

If you don't want to accept it, then don't. That's not a problem with me. I was simply answering the OP question.

I was thinking of what you said here, and my mind went to Paul.
The account at Acts 17:16, 17 comes to mind.
Paul loved people, and seeing them take a course in opposition to God, moved him to think of a way to reach their heart.
He was not forceful, but rather, the Bible says, Paul reasoned with them.

His approach was not one where he said what he did, in a "forceful" way to persuade, but his intention was to say something that hopefully reached the heart, which would move the person to be persuaded, or convinced toward another way, other than the influences that had gripped them... Obviously, because they were surrounded by it.

In the same way, the Christian is obligated to try to reach the heart of all people, in the hope that they are moved to respond because of being persuaded.
This is why I so love @1Tonne's spirit. He has a burning zeal to reach people, and this is spurred by love for them.
This is the Christian spirit.

Jesus himself had this love, that moved him to try to reach people... even the Pharisee. Matthew 9:35-38
It is because of knowing that people are victims to the philosophies, and religious indoctrination that are contrary to truth, that we need to be particular about sharing the truth with all... even if they are not persuaded. Jude 1:23

Sharing your convictions can be helpful.

 

[1Tonne]

You know, there's no need to be so nasty.

Sorry. I did not class that as nasty. It was sarcastic. But not meant to be nasty. Sorry for that.

Again you're just gainsaying. You said there were no pre-Cambrian fossils, I posted a link to a webpage full of examples of pre-Cambrian fossils.

What I wrote could be read as though I said that there were no previous fossils. But that is not the point of the paragraph.
The point of the paragraph was that there is no previous record of other fossils changing from one animal into another. These fossils that are in the Cambrian layer simply appeared. So yes, there may have been some fossils before. But there is no evidence for evolution.
Here is what I said:
"If we look at the fossil record, we see that the major body plans or types of animals all appeared virtually instantaneously in what is called the Cambrian Explosion. The animals all came into existence instantly without any previous fossils or precursors."
So, they just instantly appeared with no evidence of evolution as claimed by biologists.

None of what you quoted from scripture says anything about evolution being a salvation breaking point.

I hope it makes you think. If not, someone else may read it and change and start to give God the glory.

This is why I so love @1Tonne's spirit. He has a burning zeal to reach people, and this is spurred by love for them.
This is the Christian spirit.

Jesus himself had this love, that moved him to try to reach people... even the Pharisee. Matthew 9:35-38
It is because of knowing that people are victims to the philosophies, and religious indoctrination that are contrary to truth, that we need to be particular about sharing the truth with all... even if they are not persuaded. Jude 1:23

Sharing your convictions can be helpful.

Thank you for the compliment. Cheers
We need to give God the glory and not the creation.

 

[1Tonne]

If you went to a factory, and observed actual machines "pouring" milk; dicing vegetables; mixing ingredients together; etc., and the end result are pans of cheese, cakes, or some other product, would you credit the factory with being the cake maker, or chocolate maker?
Or would you credit the manufacturer that built the factory, and the hard working men and women, who gathered the products to feed the machines?

I struggled a little with your wording in the analogy, but I do understand.
The overall gist of the analogy is, do we credit creation with making itself or do we credit the creator? Do we credit our bodies for evolving or do we credit God for our great design? We should credit God and give Him the glory for the order and design he has put into our bodies. They have not simply fallen together by chance. We are beautifully and wonderfully made.

How sad, that people actually glorify, and make a deity creation, rather than the creator.
The Bible says the creation brings glory to God. Not the other way around.

Sadly, this is what evolution does. People may believe in God, but if they believe in evolution, then they are dishonouring Him. Romans 1:18-23

Also, the "argument about houses needing builders", isn't Comfort's. It's a basic principle found in the Christian's sword - God's word (Hebrews 3:4)... that cuts away the world's wisdom, which is foolishness. 1 Corinthians 3:19

Amen to that. Who needs Ray Comfort when we have the Bible to back us. (Sorry Ray LOL)

 

[Reneep]

All those denominations yet Jesus is telling people in dreams and vision right now that only 2 % of Americans would be saved if he came right now, .. can I guess the deal breaker is in fact first those who are filthy but the filthy just will be left outside but ulimately saved!
then I am going to bet only 2% of Americans actually believe in a 7 day creation. And that would be the ones he could save now if he came now. But he did a little trick inthe local Baptist church and the Baptist hated it ... where he showed them Only two in ten would be saved right now , but he promised after his judging / educating the churches then the nations that the Baptist would then have 3 in 10 wise virgins .. who he could bring nearer to the Father and into the Sukkahs / tabernacles , the unwise virgins will remain" outside " to finish their purification . .

. He is Only promising 3 in 10 to the Baptist. So I think all the issues are lacking in "" His Churches " , seems his churches aint really his after all. and Americans trust in mankind" wisdom " is of anti Christ Spirit and definitely part of Jesus issues with the last church age. Just because "they are all doing it" that isnt a winning point With Jesus !

 

[Aaron112]

is of anti Christ Spirit

? too much ? "There ARE MANY " ..... so what ? true is true.