Loving the law and unity

[soldier of light]

I love the law of Christ. I prefer the Bible to teachers and i prefer simplicity rather than divisions and discord. Simplicity is the only way to unity in my opinion.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Psalm 119:97 Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the [a]ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.
נ NUN
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.
106 I have sworn and confirmed
That I will keep Your righteous judgments.
107 I am afflicted very much;
Revive me, O Lord, according to Your word.
108 Accept, I pray, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O Lord,
And teach me Your judgments.
109 My life is continually in my hand,
Yet I do not forget Your law.

 

[St_Worm2]

I love the law of Christ. I prefer the Bible to teachers.......

Hello Soldier of Light, I'm not sure that I understand what you mean here Could you elaborate a bit? Thanks

..............and i prefer simplicity rather than divisions and discord. Simplicity is the only way to unity in my opinion.

This thought is not only interesting, but timely (at least in my case, anyway), because we just finished looking at the opening of the Book of Genesis (Chapters 1-11) this morning.

So, if you want to see mankind's attempt at simplicity and unity in action in this world (and also see how God responded to it), you needn't go any further than Genesis 11:1-9 to do so.

God bless you!!

--David

 

[soldier of light]

Hello Soldier of Light, I'm not sure that I understand what you mean here Could you elaborate a bit? Thanks


This thought is not only interesting, but timely (at least in my case, anyway), because we just finished looking at the opening of the Book of Genesis (Chapters 1-11) this morning.

So, if you want to see mankind's attempt at simplicity and unity in action in this world (and also see how God responded to it), you needn't go any further than Genesis 11:1-9 to do so.

God bless you!!

--David

That's not simplicity in Christ

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello again @soldier of light, so what, then, is "simplicity in Christ" exactly? How do you understand and define it?

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - also, you said that you prefer, "the Bible" to "teachers", in your opening OP statement. If you could explain that comparison too and what you mean by it I'd appreciate it, because right now, the best I can do is guess (and I really don't have
a clue ). Thanks again

 

[soldier of light]

Hello again @soldier of light, so what, then, is "simplicity in Christ" exactly? How do you understand and define it?

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - also, you said that you prefer, "the Bible" to "teachers", in your opening OP statement. If you could explain that comparison too and what you mean by it I'd appreciate it, because right now, the best I can do is guess (and I really don't have
a clue ). Thanks again

My idea of simplicity is obeying and teaching the commands of Christ as described in Matthew chapter 5. This includes obeying and teaching the commands of Jesus apostles. Simple commands, prayer, love and unity in the Spirit. We should have no politics, denomination or doctrine that divides us from that path.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello again @soldier of light, coming to saving faith is indeed simple (in a sense and in a very real way, though even this part of the faith can be complicated, yes), but it seems to me that becoming a Christian is where simplicity in the Christian faith ends, for the most part anyway. In fact, I'm thankful that we have an eternity to mine the depths of God's word, as well to come to a greater and greater understanding of Him (though I do not believe that the eternity that lies before us will be a long enough for any of us to understand everything about Him, at least not fully).

As an example for you to consider, the Lord Jesus, in both the OT and the NT tells us this,

Exodus 20​

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you."​

​

Matthew 19​

19 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” ​

Likewise, the Apostle Paul tells us,

Ephesians 6​

1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ​

2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), ​

3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. ​

However, the Lord Jesus also commands us to do the following,

Luke 14​

26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not ~hate~ his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he ~cannot be~ My disciple."​

This example seems far more complicated than simple, yes, and yet, this is hardly as complicated as the Christian faith gets

The good news (from all the way back in the Pentateuch) is this, on the one hand much of the Christian faith is shrouded, to one degree or another, in "mystery", but God (on the other hand) has also given us all that we need to find Him, to be saved by Him, and to live the basics of the Christian life before Him, if we diligently seek to do so

All in all, it does make for a very wonderful/wondrous and interesting faith, yes? (even if much of it is anything but simple)

God bless you!!

--David

Deuteronomy 29​

29 The ~secret things~ belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this Law.​

​

 

[soldier of light]

Hello again @soldier of light, coming to saving faith is indeed simple (in a sense and in a very real way, though even this part of the faith can be complicated, yes), but it seems to me that becoming a Christian is where simplicity in the Christian faith ends, for the most part anyway. In fact, I'm thankful that we have an eternity to mine the depths of God's word, as well to come to a greater and greater understanding of Him (though I do not believe that the eternity that lies before us will be a long enough for any of us to understand everything about Him, at least not fully).

As an example for you to consider, the Lord Jesus, in both the OT and the NT tells us this,

Exodus 20​

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you."​

​

Matthew 19​

19 "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” ​

Likewise, the Apostle Paul tells us,

Ephesians 6​

1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ​

2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), ​

3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. ​

However, the Lord Jesus also commands us to do the following,

Luke 14​

26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not ~hate~ his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he ~cannot be~ My disciple."​

This example seems far more complicated than simple, yes, and yet, this is hardly as complicated as the Christian faith gets

The good news (from all the way back in the Pentateuch) is this, on the one hand much of the Christian faith is shrouded, to one degree or another, in "mystery", but God, on the other, has also given us all that we need to find Him, to be saved by Him, and to live the basic Christian life before Him, if we diligently seek to do so

All in all, it does make for a very wonderful/wondrous and interesting faith, yes? (even if much of it is anything but simple)

God bless you!!

--David

Deuteronomy 29​

29 The ~secret things~ belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this Law.​

​

Thus we have disunity and divisions

 

[St_Worm2]

My idea of simplicity is obeying and teaching the commands of Christ as described in Matthew chapter 5. This includes obeying and teaching the commands of Jesus apostles. Simple commands, prayer, love and unity in the Spirit. We should have no politics, denomination or doctrine that divides us from that path.

Hmm, I've asked you to explain why you prefer "the Bible" to "teachers" and what you mean by that statement/comparison, but now I find that I'm even more confused, because you've included "teaching/teachers" as part of your definition of what "simplicity" is in the Christian faith is

So, I would definitely appreciate more from you about this, because again, I really don't understand what you mean (and I'd like to)!

Thanks!

--David

 

[soldier of light]

Hmm, I've asked you to explain why you prefer "the Bible" to "teachers" and what you mean by that statement/comparison, but now I find that I'm even more confused, because you've included "teaching/teachers" as part of your definition of what "simplicity" is in the Christian faith is

So, I would definitely appreciate more from you about this, because again, I really don't understand what you mean (and I'd like to)!

Thanks!

--David

I'm saying that Jesus commandments should direct our heart, mind, and words. We dont need teachers fallible opinion of those words however, In my opinion of Scripture, because we are in the last days and there are many blind teachers.

 

[St_Worm2]

Thus we have disunity and divisions

Actually, we* don't, IOW, we are ~not~ divided in this (in our understanding of Exodus 20:12 and Luke 14:26 anyway), but for the sake of getting to the bottom of what you mean, let's say that we are (divided in our understanding, that is). So, if we pretend that the example above has indeed caused disunity and divisions among our churches, theologians, clergy and laity, how do you believe that we can move from where we are to a place of unity instead? (w/o discarding these parts of the Bible out of hand, of course)? Thanks



*(By "we", I mean the whole of the visible, orthodox Christian church, just FYI, Catholic, Orthodox, and all of the Protestant denominations).

 

[soldier of light]

Actually, we* don't, IOW, we are ~not~ divided in this (in our understanding of Exodus 20:12 and Luke 14:26 anyway), but for the sake of getting to the bottom of what you mean, let's say that we are (divided in our understanding, that is). So, if we pretend that the example above has indeed caused disunity and divisions among our churches, theologians, clergy and laity, how do you believe that we can move from where we are to a place of unity instead? (w/o discarding these parts of the Bible out of hand, of course)? Thanks



*(By "we", I mean the whole of the visible, orthodox Christian church, just FYI, Catholic, Orthodox, and all of the Protestant denominations).

I answer that question in a new GT thread titled "is my faith not enough?" I would have added the link but it wouldn't post.

 

[St_Worm2]

I'm saying that Jesus commandments should direct our heart, mind, and words. We dont need teachers fallible opinion of those words however, In my opinion of Scripture, because we are in the last days and there are many blind teachers.

Actually, there were MANY blind teachers (I think that the Lord referred to the as "blind guides", as well) back in the first century, at yet, the Lord Jesus gave the church and us teachers, theologians, teaching elders/pastors (or undershepherds) to instruct, watch over and guide His flock until the day He returns, yes?

For example,

1 Corinthians 12​

28 ~God has appointed in the church~, first apostles, second prophets, third ~teachers~, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

​

Hebrews 10​

24 Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, ​

25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. ​

​

Hebrews 13​

7 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. ​

​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. ​

The visible church was given to us by the Lord for our good, and we are to be in regular fellowship with other believers there (for their sake, as well as for our own). Also, we need to be under its teaching and submit to its authority, even if it is not as perfect as we believe that it should be (though of course, if a new teaching of the church that we find ourselves in is blasphemous, or even heretical, then we need to challenge it for the sake of all. Simply said then, you need us, and we need you too

God bless you!!

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

I answer that question in a new GT thread titled "is my faith not enough?" I would have added the link but it wouldn't post.

Thanks! I'll search for it and join in too, if I think that I have something to add, that is (though I will need to do so a bit later today).

Gotta go for now, but I'll see you later (Dv).

--David

 

[soldier of light]

Actually, there were MANY blind teachers (I think that the Lord referred to the as "blind guides", as well) back in the first century, at yet, the Lord Jesus gave the church and us teachers, theologians, teaching elders/pastors (or undershepherds) to instruct, watch over and guide His flock until the day He returns, yes?

For example,

1 Corinthians 12​

28 ~God has appointed in the church~, first apostles, second prophets, third ~teachers~, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

​

Hebrews 10​

24 Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, ​

25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. ​

​

Hebrews 13​

7 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. ​

​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. ​

The visible church was given to us by the Lord for our good, and we are to be in regular fellowship with other believers there (for their sake, as well as for our own). Also, we need to be under its teaching and submit to its authority, even if it is not as perfect as we believe that it should be (though of course, if a new teaching of the church that we find ourselves in is blasphemous, or even heretical, then we need to challenge it for the sake of all. Simply said then, you need us, and we need you too

God bless you!!

--David

Those scriptures refer to past tense. The Bible says people will follow false teachers in the end times. That's sound doctrine not heresy

 

[St_Worm2]

Those scriptures refer to past tense. The Bible says people will follow false teachers in the end times. That's sound doctrine not heresy

Hello soldier of light, yes, the Bible tells us about false teachers being present throughout the history of the church, including the end times, but it hardly means that ~all~ (or even many) teachers are now/will be then false teachers, or that all (or even many) of the Christians who are confronted by them throughout history will choose to follow them.

As far as all of the Scriptures (see below) in my last post being in past tense, that's simply not true. Granted, the aorist tense was used by the Apostle in 1 Corinthians 12:28 because God established/appointed those various positions and gifts for the church ~before~ Paul wrote the Epistle, and it is also used of the word of God that had been spoken in the church in Hebrews 13:7, but all of the other verbs (in those 5 verses) are in the Greek present or future tenses. IOW, these Scriptures were written as much for the church today and for the future that is still to come as they were for the church of the 1st Century (please expand the quote box below to see all of the quoted Scriptures from my last post and their respective Greek tenses).

1 Corinthians 12​

28 God has appointed (aorist tense) in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third ~teachers~, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

​

Hebrews 10​

24 Let us consider (present tense) how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, ​

25 not forsaking (present tense) our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging (present tense) one another; and all the more as you see (present tense) the day drawing near. ​

​

Hebrews 13​

7 Remember (present tense) those who led you (present tense), who spoke (aorist tense) the word of God to you; and considering (present tense) the result of their conduct, imitate (present tense) their faith. ​

​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them (both in the present tense), for they keep watch (present tense) over your souls as those who will give (future tense) an account. Let them do this (present tense) with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. ​

--David
p.s. - the Lord, during the 1st Century, warns those who will live through the end times to 1. be aware that there will still be false teachers and false Christs during the end times, then 2. how to recognize them for who they are, and finally, once recognized, that 3. those in the end times are to neither follow them nor believe what they have to say.

Matthew 24​

23 “If anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. ​

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. ​

25 Behold, I have told you in advance. ​

26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them."​

 

[soldier of light]

but all of the other verbs are in the Greek present or future tenses. IOW, these Scriptures were written as much for the church today as they were for the church of the 1st Century.

What verbs?

 

[soldier of light]

Hello soldier of light, yes, the Bible tells us about false teachers being present throughout the history of the church, including the end times, but it hardly means that all teachers (including during the end times) are/will be false teachers, or that all or even many of the Christians who are confronted by them throughout history will choose to follow them.

As far as all of the Scriptures (see below) in my last post being in past tense, that's simply not true. Granted, the aorist tense was used by the Apostle in 1 Corinthians 12:28 because God established/appointed those various positions and gifts for the church before Paul wrote this Epistle, and it is also used of the word of God that had been spoken in Hebrews 13:7, but all of the other verbs are in the Greek present or future tenses. IOW, these Scriptures were written as much for the church today as they were for the church of the 1st Century.



--David
p.s. - the Lord, during the 1st Century, warns those who will live through the end times to 1. be aware that there will still be false teachers and false Christs during the end times, then 2. how to recognize them for who they are, and finally, once recognized, that 3. those in the end times are to neither follow them nor believe what they have to say.

Matthew 24​

23 “If anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. ​

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. ​

25 Behold, I have told you in advance. ​

26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them."​

If we have apostles today where are they?

 

[soldier of light]

This apostle business divides us because apostles claim authority over the whole church. The only true apostles are in the bible. There are no more apostles..

 

[St_Worm2]

What verbs?

These verbs.

1 Corinthians 12​

28 God has appointed (aorist tense) in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third ~teachers~, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

Hebrews 10​

24 Let us consider (present tense) how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, ​

25 not forsaking (present tense) our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging (present tense) one another; and all the more as you see (present tense) the day drawing near. ​

Hebrews 13​

7 Remember (present tense) those who led you (present tense), who spoke (aorist tense) the word of God to you; and considering (present tense) the result of their conduct, imitate (present tense) their faith. ​

​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them (both are in the present tense), for they keep watch (present tense) over your souls as those who will give (future tense) an account. Let them do this (present tense) with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.​

 

[soldier of light]

These verbs.

1 Corinthians 12​

28 God has appointed (aorist tense) in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third ~teachers~, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

Hebrews 10​

24 Let us consider (present tense) how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, ​

25 not forsaking (present tense) our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging (present tense) one another; and all the more as you see (present tense) the day drawing near. ​

Hebrews 13​

7 Remember (present tense) those who led you (present tense), who spoke (aorist tense) the word of God to you; and considering (present tense) the result of their conduct, imitate (present tense) their faith. ​

​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them (both are in the present tense), for they keep watch (present tense) over your souls as those who will give (future tense) an account. Let them do this (present tense) with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.​

Those are present tense only when they were written. There are no apostles today. No healers or miracle workers.