Did God forget Luke 14:28-32?

[Jeff Saunders]

You are misunderstanding the full scope of meaning of grace and faith in Romans.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I do not understand what point you were trying to make by this post? Maybe it’s because I am a simple minded guy.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Our first introduction to the tempter is as a deceiver, even a liar. Jesus advised us that was the case from the beginning. John 8:44

The entire false notions of Satan once being Holy do not exist in the scriptures. Lucifer was perfect with the caveat being "in thy ways." Essentially a PERFECT DEVIL. Emph. DEVIL.

Freewill camps have over the centuries concocted the Holy Satan story in order for their doctrinal adherents to follow a false gospel of works based salvation, God's equally phony "need" for people to make "good moral decisions" in order to be saved or for lack of having enough on the scale of good works, then Him being forced to burn people alive forever or temporarily.

All of which are entirely falsehoods and everyday basic lies in the realm of phony religion.

You are missing a very basic and fundamental view of "people."

People in the scriptures are not just "sole free standing individuals."

Jesus advised us clearly that where the Word is sown, Satan enters our hearts to steal i.e. SIN.

Jesus revealed and engaged DEVILS in MANKIND continually in the scriptures. It's one of the most pronounced matters in the Gospels.

The Apostles advised us that all people have sin and sin is OF THE DEVIL.

Do you see just people in the above? If so, I'd suggest you missed the picture of reality entirely. People do have evil present withIN them just as Paul noted for himself in Romans 7:21. People do have internal temptations via the tempter within them to do so. People are bound to the "spirit of disobedience," uh that would be Satan or his own, internally. Romans 11:32, Eph. 2:2

The only difference between a "saved" person and an "unsaved" person is we are supposed to actually SEE and understand our situation. The unsaved do not and actually can not see, because they remain under the mind blinding influences of Satan. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:19, 2 Cor. 4:4 and many many others.

In light of all these scriptural fact free will is, in short, patent absurdity. People are captives, plain and simple. We are in effect still captives in the flesh just as Paul was, Romans 7:25 but we DOMINATE over that working because we SEE IT.

And if you haven't gotten this picture by now, you may never.

Presenting Satanic salvation only served to prove the utter blindness of your positions, which most clear thinking believers rightfully REJECT outright.

So you are saying that all the early church fathers who believe this, reading it as it was originally written in Greek of the day, were blinded to what scripture really said and you are going to correct them? I think they thought clearer than we do .

 

[Der Alte]

Why do you think that the footstool is burning forever in hell?

Where did you get that idea? Where did I say, suggest or imply that there would be small, actual 3-4 legged footstools? Did you actually read either of my posts? You might try reading Joshua 10:16-24 for clarification.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Where did you get that idea? Where did I say, suggest or imply that there would be small, actual 3-4 legged footstools? Did you actually read either of my posts? You might try reading Joshua 10:16-24 for clarification.

You did your cut and paste verses on God/Jesus making his enemies into his footstool and you believe that his enemies will be tortured forever in a place called hell so I asked do you think Gods footstool is hell? That’s all . I don’t understand what the Joshua verse has anything to do with this.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Short answer no, thats not what we are talking about.

Evil is the result of free will by persons who choose to do it.

Is not God the one who either allowed or created evil in the first place?

 

[Der Alte]

You did your cut and paste verses on God/Jesus making his enemies into his footstool and you believe that his enemies will be tortured forever in a place called hell so I asked do you think Gods footstool is hell? That’s all . I don’t understand what the Joshua verse has anything to do with this.

Jehoshua [Joshua], which is also the name of the savior, and his soldiers made the enemy kings kneel and Yehosua and soldiers placed their feet on the necks of the kneeling enemy kings literally making the kings their footstools. But the enemy kings did not become loyal followers of Yehoshua. They were killed and hung on trees. The footstools are in this life, see e.g. Joshua 10:16-24. Scripture says nothing about them being hell, itself, or being in hell.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Jehoshua [Joshua], which is also the name of the savior, and his soldiers made the enemy kings kneel and Yehosua and soldiers placed their feet on the necks of the kneeling enemy kings literally making the kings their footstools. But the enemy kings did not become loyal followers of Yehoshua. They were killed and hung on trees. The footstools are in this life, see e.g. Joshua 10:16-24. Scripture says nothing about them being hell, itself, or being in hell.

I think you are reading more into this than is there . Having your foot on someone’s neck is not the same as a footstool. To have your foot on someone’s neck is a sign of dominance and conquering control, yet a footstool is a piece of furniture that gives your feet a comfortable place to rest upon. I do not see how you can equate the two unless this fits your preconceived ideas about God and what he will do.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

Do you know how many times it is written that God will make the enemies of Jesus His footstool?

Mat_22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?​

Mar_12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.​

Luk_20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.​

Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.​

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?​

Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​

If all mankind is going to willingly bow down and worship Jesus why are there so many vss. saying that the enemies of Jesus will be made His footstool? Jesus' namesake Joshua in the O.T. made his enemies his footstool.

Josh 10:16 But these five kings fled, and hid themselves in a cave at Makkedah.​

Jos_10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah.Jos_10:22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.​

Jos_10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king oJos 10:25 And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the LORD do to all your enemies against whom ye fight.​

Jos 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening. f Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.​

Jos 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.​

But those enemies did not become his faithful followers

I read all the scriptures not just the vss. that seem to support some preheld beliefs.

As do I my friend. That is why I changed my position on the veracity of the doctrine of hell; which is a wicked, smear God’s character campaign by Satan. Once God revealed to me I was defending “my personal theological paradigm” rather than allowing the Scripture to breathe on its own, my theological house of cards came crashing down. Praise His Name! He has been reshaping my view of life and my whole person ever since.

I might have deleted the email if I didn't recognize the name. Again, here are the vss. which I think clearly show that all mankind will not willingly confess to Jesus.
Jeremiah 13:10-11, Jeremiah 13:14, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 25:45-46

You have not answered my question(s) my friend. Let me try again:
1). You agree that “ALL” will bow and confess. Yet you hold to the majority of humanity being eternally punished. I‘m pretty sure you don’t view this bowing and confessing to be one’s conversion, as that would mean you adhere to Universal Salvation. So, please explain to me what God is achieving by bringing all men to the point of bowing and confessing to the Lordship of Jesus, only to cast them away into hell? This is essentially God making man “cry uncle” before tossing them in hell. No? I think the following Scripture is clear, nothing out of context here:

”Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

bible.com

”If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

bible.com

Did you receive my email yet brother?

blessings

 

[Johan2222]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

Proverbs 26:3-5 NKJV
A whip for the horse, A bridle for the donkey, And a rod for the fool's back. [4] Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. [5] Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

Isaiah 55:9 KJV
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 9:20 NKJV
But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?

Titus 3:9 KJV
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Isaiah 55:9 KJV
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 9:20 NKJV
But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?

Titus 3:9 KJV
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

What is your point? Do you think quoting a bunch of scripture without explaining why and what you think will give clarity to whatever idea you have?

 

[Der Alte]

I think you are reading more into this than is there . Having your foot on someone’s neck is not the same as a footstool. To have your foot on someone’s neck is a sign of dominance and conquering control, yet a footstool is a piece of furniture that gives your feet a comfortable place to rest upon. I do not see how you can equate the two unless this fits your preconceived ideas about God and what he will do.

I believe that God will do what He said He would. When Jesus makes his enemies his footstool as stated in Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Act 2:35, Heb 1:13, Heb 10:13, previously posted. IMO what will be happening is they will be literally on their knees in complete, but too late, surrender and Jesus' foot will be on their necks as if they were literal footstools. See e.g. Joshua 10:22-25

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says never, He does not mean someday by and by.

 

[Der Alte]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

Some people can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective vss. out of context
1 Tim does NOT say all men will be saved.

Romans 1:24​

(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:​

Romans 1:26​

(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:​

Romans 1:28​

(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

Jeremiah 13:11​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

Jeremiah 13:13-14​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

 

[Der Alte]

As do I my friend. That is why I changed my position on the veracity of the doctrine of hell; which is a wicked, smear God’s character campaign by Satan. Once God revealed to me I was defending “my personal theological paradigm” rather than allowing the Scripture to breathe on its own, my theological house of cards came crashing down. Praise His Name! He has been reshaping my view of life and my whole person ever since.

The founders of Jehovah Witnesses and Latter Day Saints both claim that they had revelation from God and thier doctrines are substantially different.

You have not answered my question(s) my friend. Let me try again:
1). You agree that “ALL” will bow and confess. Yet you hold to the majority of humanity being eternally punished. I‘m pretty sure you don’t view this bowing and confessing to be one’s conversion, as that would mean you adhere to Universal Salvation. So, please explain to me what God is achieving by bringing all men to the point of bowing and confessing to the Lordship of Jesus, only to cast them away into hell? This is essentially God making man “cry uncle” before tossing them in hell. No? I think the following Scripture is clear, nothing out of context here:

My opinion is that is going to punish those who reject Him, and many will then say that Jesus is Lord hopong that God will have mercy on the, when it is too late.

”Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

bible.com

On their own "no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,'” except by the Holy Spirit.“" but facing punishment many will try to avoid punishment by then saying "Jesus is Lord, etc."

”If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

bible.com

Did you receive my email yet brother?

blessings

”If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.“ Please note the words "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead," People facing punishment will say anything to avoid the punishment. But they can't fake "believe in your heart."

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

As do I my friend. That is why I changed my position on the veracity of the doctrine of hell; which is a wicked, smear God’s character campaign by Satan. Once God revealed to me I was defending “my personal theological paradigm” rather than allowing the Scripture to breathe on its own, my theological house of cards came crashing down. Praise His Name! He has been reshaping my view of life and my whole person ever since.

The founders of Jehovah Witnesses and Latter Day Saints both claim that they had revelation from God and thier doctrines are substantially different.

My reply: I’m not really sure what you are saying or trying to point out to me brother? I don’t claim to be given special revelation from God if that is what you mean. God reveals His truth from the Scripture to us, according to His will as He reshapes our thinking through the process of sanctification. Now, the J.W.s may have missed the mark on the deity of Jesus but they got it correct concerning the absence of hell in the Scriptures. In fact, the Apostles and all N.T. authors are in agreement for not a single one of them spoke of hell. Paul? Nope. Peter? Nope. John? Nope. James? Nope. Jude? Nope. How about the book of Acts? Nope. Do you not find that to be a bit troubling?

The way I see it: 1). They forgot to mention it in their epistles. A really big oooopppppps. 2). They refused to speak of it for some reason and thus were disobedient and neglected to fulfill the Great Commission. 3). It was never a concept taught to them by Jesus, which He intended for them to advocate for on His behalf. Hell is only a concept planted in the mind of mankind via the adversary to cast contempt on the Name of God, and the Person and work of His Son, Jesus The Christ.

You have not answered my question(s) my friend. Let me try again:
1). You agree that “ALL” will bow and confess. Yet you hold to the majority of humanity being eternally punished. I‘m pretty sure you don’t view this bowing and confessing to be one’s conversion, as that would mean you adhere to Universal Salvation. So, please explain to me what God is achieving by bringing all men to the point of bowing and confessing to the Lordship of Jesus, only to cast them away into hell? This is essentially God making man “cry uncle” before tossing them in hell. No? I think the following Scripture is clear, nothing out of context here:

My opinion is that is going to punish those who reject Him, and many will then say that Jesus is Lord hopong that God will have mercy on the, when it is too late.

My reply: Absurd. Again, there is not a single hint of such nonsense found within this divine context of inspiration; in this chapter, the previous or the following chapters.

”Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.“
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now​

Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
bible.com
Click to expand...

On their own "no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,'” except by the Holy Spirit.“" but facing punishment many will try to avoid punishment by then saying "Jesus is Lord, etc."

My reply: When Paul was quoting Isaiah in Philippians 2 I think he had more in mind than mere lip service … and here is the context:

”“Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, ‘In the Lord alone are deliverance and strength.’ ” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the Lord and will make their boast in him.“
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45‬:‭22‬-‭25‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Isaiah 45:22-25 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every | New International Version (NIV)

“Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every

bible.com

It Appears to me to be an invitation to all? No? Then, those who bow and swear (confess) proclaim “deliverance and strength are found in the Lord.” Some of them shamed? Yes, and rightly so … but It appears to me their declaration is genuine. This is what Paul had in view when quoting Isaiah… Not just an attempt to save their butts.

”If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. | New International Version (NIV) | Download The Bible App Now​

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
bible.com
Did you receive my email yet brother?

blessings
Click to expand...

”If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.“ Please note the words "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead," People facing punishment will say anything to avoid the punishment. But they can't fake "believe in your heart."

My reply: Well, I would say based on the Isaiah passage I quoted, with their declaration, their bowing and confessing are signs of “believing in your heart.” Couple that with the Holy Spirit being the cause of this declaration, I think your reasoning for a fake confession to save themselves from punishment is flawed and obviously biased towards your own personal theological paradigm.

blessings

 

[Johan2222]

What is your point? Do you think quoting a bunch of scripture without explaining why and what you think will give clarity to whatever idea you have?

Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 KJV
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. [12] And further, by these, my son, be admonished:

James 1:5 KJV
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[HIM]

So you’re saying that God did not count the cost of his creation and he created beings that had a stronger will than his will? Because Rom 5:20 says that where sin abounds grace abounds all the more - but you believe that where sin abounds grace is a little effective because man’s will is greater than Gods?

You are misunderstanding the full scope of meaning of grace and faith in Romans.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I do not understand what point you were trying to make by this post? Maybe it’s because I am a simple minded guy.

I am sorry let's try again.

You are misunderstanding the full scope of the meaning of grace and faith in Romans is the point. You used Romans 5:20 as a proof text In respect to grace. The text cited above show that sin shall not have dominion over us, for we are under grace and are now instruments of righteousness unto God mortifying the deeds of the Body living through the Spirit. But if live after the flesh we shall die. So obviously not all are saved as appears you believe.

What many miss in chapter 5 and 6 is that it proclaims that we as the Body of Christ the Temple of God can be sinless. Because in God's grace is power. 5 starts this teaching and 6 solidifies it. It says we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. wherein we receive the abundance of this grace which we stand and thereby the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. For By the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. As the disobedience of one many were made sinners.
Because we are dead to sin, and live no any longer therein through the Body of Christ. For as we were baptized into Jesus Christ, we have put on Christ and were baptized into his death. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For Being made free from sin, we became servants to God and righteousness, having our fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[HIM]

Isaiah 55:9 KJV
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 9:20 NKJV
But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God?

Titus 3:9 KJV
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 KJV
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. [12] And further, by these, my son, be admonished:

James 1:5 KJV
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What is your point? Do you think quoting a bunch of scripture without explaining why and what you think will give clarity to whatever idea you have?

I understood. I might be wrong, but I think others here have too. Why don't you?

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

I understood. I might be wrong, but I think others here have too. Why don't you?

Indeed you are wrong … I thought the same thing “what’s your point?” My instinct tells me the intent was to inform Jeff he is wrong, has no place questioning God, lacks wisdom and is spiritually blind. If my instinct is right, to me, it comes across a bit condescending. So does your “Why don’t you? comment …

 

[Johan2222]

Is it not arrogance to claim you have attained to what even Paul said he hoped by any means he “might” attain to?

Philippians 3:11-12 KJV
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Do you think “a dirt nap from glory” are the words of the Spirit or a sign of humility? Do you not think before you became a believer that you would consider such a claim sheer arrogance by a believer?

If not, perhaps consider the counsel of our brother James.

James 1:24 KJV
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Do you not think that someone implying God had not thought about something that he himself had thought about was blasphemous or arrogant?

Are we not commanded to rebuke such?

1 Timothy 5:20 KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJV
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

If I might be honest I considered saying something far stronger than the words God gave me by His word but I decided the scripture would be sufficient.

I am sure you know that even the mildest rebuke is disdained by the arrogant as condescending my friend but I must by all means seek to please God in obedience to his word.

I am sorry that the scriptures I posted were an offence to you.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I am sorry let's try again.

You are misunderstanding the full scope of the meaning of grace and faith in Romans is the point. You used Romans 5:20 as a proof text In respect to grace. The text cited above show that sin shall not have dominion over us, for we are under grace and are now instruments of righteousness unto God mortifying the deeds of the Body living through the Spirit. But if live after the flesh we shall die. So obviously not all are saved as appears you believe.

What many miss in chapter 5 and 6 is that it proclaims that we as the Body of Christ the Temple of God can be sinless. Because in God's grace is power. 5 starts this teaching and 6 solidifies it. It says we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. wherein we receive the abundance of this grace which we stand and thereby the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. For By the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. As the disobedience of one many were made sinners.
Because we are dead to sin, and live no any longer therein through the Body of Christ. For as we were baptized into Jesus Christ, we have put on Christ and were baptized into his death. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For Being made free from sin, we became servants to God and righteousness, having our fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

When you say that not all are saved you are looking as the world sees things and not as God sees. God sees the whole picture from beginning to end as one, we see only there now not the end. All are not saved in this age but this is not the only age there are other ages to come , most will come to Jesus in a later age few find life now most are still in death. We need to see things from Gods perspective not man’s.Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on ALL. God has all the time he needs to find his lost sheep and he won’t stop until every last one is found.