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New Propellantless Propulsion Drive - That Physics Says Shouldn’t Work - Just Produced Enough Thrust to Overcome Earth’s Gravity | The Debrief

Matt5

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NASA Veteran’s Propellantless Propulsion Drive - That Physics Says Shouldn’t Work - Just Produced Enough Thrust to Overcome Earth’s Gravity - The Debrief

If this turns out to be true, then it would be revolutionary. It uses electric fields based on electrostatics. Once a drive is charged up then the force remains.

Is this Cold Fusion for rockets? Too good to be true because it isn't true? Too early to tell, but something to keep an eye on.

ChatGPT Summary of Key Points:

1. **Discovery of Propellantless Propulsion**: Dr. Charles Buhler, a NASA engineer and co-founder of Exodus Propulsion Technologies, has developed a propulsion drive that seemingly defies known physics laws, producing enough thrust to counteract Earth's gravity.

2. **Nature of the Discovery**: Buhler emphasizes that their discovery represents a fundamental breakthrough, utilizing electric fields to generate sustainable force without expelling mass.

3. **Background and Expertise**: Buhler's background in electrostatics and extensive experience with NASA's programs contributes to his understanding of this new force.

4. **Development Process**: Over two decades, Buhler's team explored various avenues before settling on electrostatics as the key. They meticulously conducted experiments, eliminating alternative explanations and obtaining a patent in 2020.

5. **Breakthrough Thrust Measurement**: Between 2022 and 2023, the propulsion drive exhibited significant thrust increases, eventually surpassing one full Earth gravity.

6. **Nature of the Force**: Buhler explains that asymmetry in electrostatic pressure or fields can generate force on an object, marking a departure from traditional propulsion methods.

7. **Comparison with Other Concepts**: While similar concepts exist, Buhler's team claims their work explains effects observed in other propulsion drives.

8. **Future Directions**: The team seeks funding for space tests to further understand the force and its implications, potentially addressing complex scientific questions.

9. **Implications for Science**: Buhler hopes their discovery will spur scientific inquiry into phenomena such as dark energy and space/time.

10. **Call for Collaboration**: Buhler invites companies interested in propellantless propulsion to explore licensing opportunities, emphasizing the need for expertise in electrostatics.

11. **Conclusion**: The discovery presents a significant opportunity for scientific exploration, with implications reaching beyond propulsion into fundamental physics questions.
 

AlexB23

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NASA Veteran’s Propellantless Propulsion Drive - That Physics Says Shouldn’t Work - Just Produced Enough Thrust to Overcome Earth’s Gravity - The Debrief

If this turns out to be true, then it would be revolutionary. It uses electric fields based on electrostatics. Once a drive is charged up then the force remains.

Is this Cold Fusion for rockets? Too good to be true because it isn't true? Too early to tell, but something to keep an eye on.

ChatGPT Summary of Key Points:

1. **Discovery of Propellantless Propulsion**: Dr. Charles Buhler, a NASA engineer and co-founder of Exodus Propulsion Technologies, has developed a propulsion drive that seemingly defies known physics laws, producing enough thrust to counteract Earth's gravity.

2. **Nature of the Discovery**: Buhler emphasizes that their discovery represents a fundamental breakthrough, utilizing electric fields to generate sustainable force without expelling mass.

3. **Background and Expertise**: Buhler's background in electrostatics and extensive experience with NASA's programs contributes to his understanding of this new force.

4. **Development Process**: Over two decades, Buhler's team explored various avenues before settling on electrostatics as the key. They meticulously conducted experiments, eliminating alternative explanations and obtaining a patent in 2020.

5. **Breakthrough Thrust Measurement**: Between 2022 and 2023, the propulsion drive exhibited significant thrust increases, eventually surpassing one full Earth gravity.

6. **Nature of the Force**: Buhler explains that asymmetry in electrostatic pressure or fields can generate force on an object, marking a departure from traditional propulsion methods.

7. **Comparison with Other Concepts**: While similar concepts exist, Buhler's team claims their work explains effects observed in other propulsion drives.

8. **Future Directions**: The team seeks funding for space tests to further understand the force and its implications, potentially addressing complex scientific questions.

9. **Implications for Science**: Buhler hopes their discovery will spur scientific inquiry into phenomena such as dark energy and space/time.

10. **Call for Collaboration**: Buhler invites companies interested in propellantless propulsion to explore licensing opportunities, emphasizing the need for expertise in electrostatics.

11. **Conclusion**: The discovery presents a significant opportunity for scientific exploration, with implications reaching beyond propulsion into fundamental physics questions.
Sounds like the propulsion system the Xa'na ships in my sci-fi world use, or the Impulse Drive in Star Trek. We will have to see what will happen if this story is true or not, and when a peer-reviewed journal releases.
 
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Whyayeman

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If this turns out to be true . . .
It won't.

"There are rules that include conservation of energy, but if done correctly, one can generate forces unlike anything humankind has done before,” Buhler added. “It will be this force that we will use to propel objects for the next 1,000 years . . ."

I won't be holding my breath for the publication of a peer review. It is Something for Nothing science, another perpetual motion machine.
 
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timewerx

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It looks so similar to these videos, but several years older on a much lower budget.

Electrostatically charged plates with dielectric backing. Very similar concept and probably the same principle/tech.

However, my money is on tech that attempts to manipulate the "ambient gravitational energy" which is simply the gravitational energy generated by the all of the mass in the Universe which is roughly equivalent to gravitational force at the event horizon of a black hole out to a distance beyond visible bounds of our Universe. We don't feel it because it's acting upon us on all directions. One example of utilizing that force is by creating an energy field that can partially or fully block gravity fields so that a monodirectional gravity field is "filtered out" right next to the blocking field. Acceleration rates of such spacecraft at the pinnacle of development will be comparable to acceleration rates of matter near the event horizon of black holes but without the destructive tidal effects associated with black holes. The extreme gravitational gradients will also permit faster than light speeds via "frame dragging" or "Lense-Thirring Effect" allowing light years of distance covered in just a very short period time in terms of hours, not years.


 
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Whyayeman

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However, my money is on tech that attempts to manipulate the "ambient gravitational energy"
Excellent news! A friend of mine is working on this very thing. You could send your money to him.

Or maybe, you know, hang onto it. Those YouTube videos are mumbo jumbo.
 
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AlexB23

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Excellent news! A friend of mine is working on this very thing. You could send your money to him.

Or maybe, you know, hang onto it. Those YouTube videos are mumbo jumbo.
Agreed. I am working on something like this as well, it is known as the Makorov* Engine, capable of traveling at a Makorov coefficient of 1.5. (I am being facetious). Hey, @timewerx , can you build one based upon the YouTube clickbait that was posted here?

*Makorov Engines are going to be part of my Xa'na sci-fi plot set in the 2060s on some distant planet, so the tech is not real, and the name Makorov is just a play on the name Cherenkov, a guy from Earth who discovered the reason why nuclear reactors underwater emit a blue light.

Makorov 0 = 0 m/s
Makorov 1 = 1 c (1x speed of light)
Makorov 3 = 12 c
Makorov 5 = 144 c

Cherenkov Radiation: Cherenkov radiation - Wikipedia
 
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timewerx

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Excellent news! A friend of mine is working on this very thing. You could send your money to him.

Or maybe, you know, hang onto it. Those YouTube videos are mumbo jumbo.

Those youtube vids are for real. The setup is straightforward, simple, and easily replicable.

I replicated it and it worked. It can provide propellantless thrust for space vehicles that are already in space. Ofc, sending the vehicle into orbit still requires chemical rockets.

I'll hire your friend if I were a rich dude to do R&D work for me, together with other scientists and engineers. But alas, I'm no rich dude, but a dude drowning in debt (DDD)
 
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Whyayeman

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The extreme gravitational gradients will also permit faster than light speeds via "frame dragging" or "Lense-Thirring Effect" allowing light years of distance covered in just a very short period time in terms of hours, not years.
That is quite an impressive plastic bag you've got there!

Electric and magnetic fields are well established technology as any 12 year old knows. There is a rotating paddle in the film. Something is driving it - or perhaps we should say - propelling it. This is just another perpetual motion machine really. You cannot get out more energy then you put in. All such 'inventions' deny the laws of physics.

I see that you have posted this rubbish before.
 
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timewerx

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Hey, @timewerx , can you build one based upon the YouTube clickbait that was posted here?

I already did but setup is no longer with me. I threw it away, including the power supply.

It's really simple. The power supply is 30,000 volts with flyback transformer kit, 50 watts. Off memory, the device consists of two aluminum foil electrodes 30 mm apart (maybe more... if you get arcing, then it's too close). The electrodes are stuck on top of EPP foam 3 mm thick (you can get from RC aircraft hobby stores) Between the electrodes are copper wires that are isolated (not insulated) from each other and also stuck on top of the foam. The wires works as "electric field equalizer" and serves the same purpose as those rings in giant Van De Graaf or Pelleton Generators.

You can replicate yourself if you're actually serious about it. The setup is cheap and you can easily see/debunk for yourself if you're being deceived.

The thrust is weak and far from being strong enough to lift the whole thing with the flyback transformer and batteries or solar (if included).

The only way I know to dramatically increase the thrust (NOT guaranteed) is to raise the average electric field strength across the whole face of the electrode. Two ways to do this is put the thing inside a sealed, non-conducting container and fill it with inert gas at high pressure. The high vacuum of space might also do the trick.

Or, downscale the electrodes and the wire arrangement to microscopic scale using silicon doping prototyping, same tech used in microprocessor manufacturing. Proportionally stronger electric fields can be sustained without arcing if electrodes are closer even if you're using much smaller voltages.

I'm really not betting on this tech but it's a start. Better than 1:1 thrust-to-weight ratio "all in" that is with all equipment included plus battery or fuel MAYBE possible. But certainly not absolutely sure about it.

I still won't bet on it for deep space attempts. Having a deflector shield is just as important as the engine itself. Non-gravity based shielding would require impossible amounts of energy to protect against debris that will be moving at high relativistic speeds against your vehicle. The gravity drive would also provide gravity-based deflection of debris as addition effect of its normal operation.
 
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Whyayeman

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I already did but setup is no longer with me. I threw it away, including the power supply.

It's really simple. The power supply is 30,000 volts with flyback transformer kit, 50 watts. Off memory, the device consists of two aluminum foil electrodes 30 mm apart (maybe more... if you get arcing, then it's too close). The electrodes are stuck on top of EPP foam 3 mm thick (you can get from RC aircraft hobby stores) Between the electrodes are copper wires that are isolated (not insulated) from each other and also stuck on top of the foam. The wires works as "electric field equalizer" and serves the same purpose as those rings in giant Van De Graaf or Pelleton Generators.

The thrust is weak and far from being strong enough to lift the whole thing with the flyback transformer and batteries or solar (if included).

The only way I know to dramatically increase the thrust (NOT guaranteed) is to raise the average electric field strength across the whole face of the electrode. Two ways to do this is put the thing inside a sealed, non-conducting container and fill it with inert gas at high pressure. The high vacuum of space might also do the trick.

Or, downscale the electrodes and the wire arrangement to microscopic scale using silicon doping prototyping, same tech used in microprocessor manufacturing. Proportionally stronger electric fields can be sustained without arcing if electrodes are closer even if you're using much smaller voltages.

I'm really not betting on this tech but it's a start. Better than 1:1 thrust-to-weight ratio "all in" that is with all equipment included plus battery or fuel MAYBE possible. But certainly not absolutely sure about it.

I still won't bet on it for deep space attempts. Having a deflector shield is just as important as the engine itself. Non-gravity based shielding would require impossible amounts of energy to protect against debris that will be moving at high relativistic speeds against your vehicle. The gravity drive would also provide gravity-based deflection of debris as addition effect of its normal operation.
Gosh!

Did you put all those techie words in the big plastic bag and give them a shake? It not worth the bother of tackling the psuedo-science in detail but let us look at the first paragraph:

Watts are volts x amps, so we can readily calculate the ampage of your device, a=W/v which is 600 amps. And you survived to throw the stuff away.

Between the electrodes are copper wires that are isolated (not insulated) from each other
Somebody needs to explain to you that isolation is insulation.
 
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timewerx

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Watts are volts x amps, so we can readily calculate the ampage of your device, a=W/v which is 600 amps. And you survived to throw the stuff away.

I'm surprised you survived high school because

A = 50 watts / 30,000 volts = 1.67 milliamps.

Not 600 amps and there is no "ampage" word. You meant "amperage"?

Somebody needs to explain to you that isolation is insulation.

I agree that somebody else needs to explain that to me.
 
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Whyayeman

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I'm surprised you survived high school because

A = 50 watts / 30,000 volts = 1.67 milliamps.

Not 600 amps and there is no "ampage" word. You meant "amperage"?



I agree that somebody else needs to explain that to me.
Whoops! W=av; a=W/v. You were right, the current was as you said.

Ampage is British English.
 
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Ophiolite

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If Physics really says it weon't wpork, it won't work. Any time you hear "it defies the laws of Physics" you know it's rubbish.
True, until there is a paradigm shift and we change the Laws of Physics. If the Laws of Physics were immutable there would no longer be any need for physicists.
 
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timewerx

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If Physics really says it weon't wpork, it won't work. Any time you hear "it defies the laws of Physics" you know it's rubbish.

If you look at enough numbers of scientific publications/journals by real people with qualifications doing real work for the government or academic institutions (not trying to get rich or scam people out of their money), you'll actually find even these people are finding some laws of physics being violated and even successfully replicating the violations reliably.
 
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Jipsah

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If you look at enough numbers of scientific publications/journals by real people with qualifications doing real work for the government or academic institutions (not trying to get rich or scam people out of their money), you'll actually find even these people are finding some laws of physics being violated and even successfully replicating the violations reliably.
For example?
 
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Jipsah

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True, until there is a paradigm shift and we change the Laws of Physics. If the Laws of Physics were immutable there would no longer be any need for physicists.
Fair play, but in a general sense "it defies the laws of physics" means "put your hand on your wallet and make a hasty exit".
 
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It sounds like you're calling me dumb but I'm not sure so I have to ask.

Anyway, what's a GWD? You seem to love using acronyms but most of the time I don't know what they mean and seems like a waste of space asking back and forth what they mean but I have to ask just this time.

I did have to google it but none of the results made sense.

If you want to sound professional, avoid using acronyms because half the time people don't know what they mean and even upon google search, most of the results don't make sense we don't have time to try to guess what meaning fits best under the discussion.

Seriously, it came up often in "e-learning" communication topics in a company I used to work for. Avoid using abbreviations in company sms, chats, etc. Unless you're absolutely, utterly sure everyone knows it.

But if you're absolutely, utterly sure everyone should know what GWD means, then you can probably call me dumb for not knowing it...probably.

Now back to topic, who's asking for your money? Perhaps that's not what you meant, but again, probably because I don't know what GWD means.

No one's asking for money okay. To be honest I don't like the idea of messed up humans who are mean, greedy, thinks everyone else is dumb spreading all over the galaxy and the universe. I don't think it's going to end up well anyway if we did. But then and again, just about everything "smart" humans do seems to lead to our own extinction.
So much assuming!
Someone said DDD for "dude deep debt"

In a try at faint humour- what Americans find funny
( or believable) always puzzles me-
I said I'm girl with dollars coz I don't make dumb
investments.

I assumed that whether or not gwd was translated,
the obvious message was, this is a poor investment.

But regardless, I gotta declare you winner in the assumption derby.
 
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