Discussion I am now doubtful , about my salvation.

[GoldenKingGaze]

I was raised Catholic and my Pentecostal father pressed me to think positive and disciplined me to repent, my family was praying for me... I hated my life as a sinner, then I was given a medication and thought I was going to and turned to God asking for life and mercy. After days, I repented, and experienced being forgiven and standing from kneeling with a clear conscience and I was joyed for weeks, and felt more home and connected with nature, could love people more and had a clean heart. Catholic practices did not work best for me, confessing what I'd been forgiven from, and being sorry.

So I was not consolidated and it was ten years later that I was born again, under Frank Houston, worked out preachings and answered prayers and answered questions. Frank would teach, that unless you are born again, you are no different from a drunk in the gutter, and that by being born again, you were sure to enter life, if this night you die.

Later came the issue of new borns dying, conclusion, they go to Heaven.

I feel dissatisfied with myself. I am not free from sin, not bearing the fruit of the Spirit, a traitor stopped me or made it hard for me when I was first born again.

I cannot seem to motivate myself to repent. I struggle to reach out to God and find Him and peace.

I just watched the testimony of a Pentecostal who in her NDE went to Hell. I think some of us are Pollyannas. She was corrected and had to be led by the Spirit afresh.

I have watched many NDE accounts, and many entered the light of life. I have hope. But I am not sure of where I will go. I pray in tongues, but find receiving a word of knowledge hard and receiving the Holy Spirit, is also hard. At times when others have prayed for me, I mistakenly hardened my heart. I choose to forgive, but struggle to get out of the cage with the open door.

Has anyone overcome and stood fast in Godly love?

 

[Unqualified]

We all sin we all have to repent when we do if we want to stay close to God. Do you pray for God to cleanse you. Do you study your Bible. Do you love your neighbor in action. Do you love God with all your heart. It not time to doubt but to get right again and get back to basics, do the first works again. A little extra effort.

clothe the needy, feed the poor, visit sick and imprisoned, forgive enemies, share the word. Love and do not curse, join a ministry, believe God and serve God and people.

 

[jiminpa]

Romans 10:9 AMPC
Amplified Bible
because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Put your complete trust in Jesus and righteousness will be the fruit. If you do that, He accounts your faith as righteousness and applies His sacrifice to your sin, and He gives the grace to grow in Him and walk in increasing righteousness. We all commit sins, even mature Christians, but if we are in Christ it is not our nature anymore.

A friend of mine was praying about a play she is producing, and God asked her, "what if I decide to take over and you don't get to put on the play?" Her response was, "can we have the play and revival after?" She realized how far she has to go in her walk with God by that question, but she is way ahead of me at this stage, and much younger than me too. It doesn't make either one of us not real Christians, but it does mean we need to work on our submission to our Father. We're both on the right path, so we'll get there. Just be on the right path, and you'll get there.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Get back to the basics and the Word of God alone.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Acknowledge that this is what saved you and keeps you saved IF YOU KEEP IT IN MEMORY.
Rely on His word and His word alone. Do not judge yourself by comparing yourself. That is not how you got saved to start with and that is not how you will continue and endure. Go to Him empty-handed, humbled.
If you have sinned, once again, rely on His word completely. No excuses:

1 John 1:9 KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Notice it is He that is faithful and just. Your forgiveness is based on His faithfulness, not yours. His forgiving you is a matter of Justice. It would be injustice to NOT forgive you. He paid the price for you... you belong to Him. Just KNOW that, and walk with Him.

 

[mourningdove~]

Has anyone overcome and stood fast in Godly love?

Oh yes, most certainly yes.
But ... also have I fallen at times, and needed for Him to pick me up and put me back up on my feet again!

That 'resistance' to repenting ... I have known that, too.
For me, I've learned it comes from feeling disappointed in myself ... that I have fallen again.
At the time, it feels like humility ... but really, it is pride, to think that I will not sin again.

Being born again does not make us perfect.
This battle with the flesh goes on and on., till we depart this earth. So, we will sometimes fall.
We are not as good as we like to think that we are.

... But, when we fall, God is lovingly and faithfully near, to forgive us once again.
He knows how weak we are, how much we need His Power and Strength to overcome in this life. He knows.
It is just that sometimes we do not yet realize it, or want to see the truth about ourselves.
But He knows.

If it is false humility that has kept you from repenting ... it's time to let it go.
God has more He wants to give you.
That is what I see ...

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I am not free from sin, not bearing the fruit of the Spirit

Honesty is a fruit of the Spirit and you are being honest. None of us are sinless.

When you hear someone claim that unless you are born again you are no better than a drunk in the gutter I'd suggest to turn to Romans 3:9 for a reminder that even after salvation we are still no better than that drunk in the gutter.

Paul actually claimed to be the chief of sinners using the present tense term, "I am" in 1 Tim 1:15

You probably won't find to many people in the pulpit trying to convince people of the same state, but at least it's the truth when you believe it.

Hence the ever present need of our Savior, Jesus Christ

 

[ARBITER01]

Honesty is a fruit of the Spirit and you are being honest. None of us are sinless.

When you hear someone claim that unless you are born again you are no better than a drunk in the gutter I'd suggest to turn to Romans 3:9 for a reminder that even after salvation we are still no better than that drunk in the gutter.

Paul actually claimed to be the chief of sinners using the present tense term, "I am" in 1 Tim 1:15

You probably won't find to many people in the pulpit trying to convince people of the same state, but at least it's the truth when you believe it.

Hence the ever present need of our Savior, Jesus Christ

This statement is actually a bunch of lies.

Once born again, we are absolutely not the same. We are not dominated by sin and it's effects. We can be tempted into some sin, yes, and our flesh will still want to act out what it is used to, but over time we are delivered from all those desires.

A sinner is one who is dominated by sin because of their fallen state. We are not sinners, no matter who tries to convince us otherwise. In fact, if a person is still caught up in all their sins, then they are not born again.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

This statement is actually a bunch of lies.

Once born again, we are absolutely not the same. We are not dominated by sin and it's effects. We can be tempted into some sin, yes, and our flesh will still want to act out what it is used to, but over time we are delivered from all those desires.

A sinner is one who is dominated by sin because of their fallen state. We are not sinners, no matter who tries to convince us otherwise. In fact, if a person is still caught up in all their sins, then they are not born again.

Honesty about being a sinner is dominion.

And I just cite the scriptures, and believe them. Did you actually read Romans 3:9? How about 1 Tim 1:15?

What Jesus said in Mark 7:21-23 is true for everyone, period, no exceptions.

Few are actually capable of being honest about it, and fall into lying hypocrisy instead, just like the blinded pharisee of Luke 18 who thought he was not like the other sinners

The man who went to his home justified was the honest sinner, who said what he was, a sinner

 

[ARBITER01]

Like I said, if anyone is still dominated by sin, they are not born again. Jesus came to set us free, not keep us bound in captivity.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Have you wondered what aspects of reality have to be believed in order to be true?
For instance, you do not have to believe that God created the heavens and earth in order for it to be true. Your believing is neither here nor there. It is true regardless of what you believe.

Healing OTOH, needs to be believed to become true. So also prayers and other things.

The question comes to me: Do we have to believe that Jesus took away the sins of the world, i.e., our sins, in order for it to be true? What if we (for whatever reason, ignorance, doubt, etc) do not believe? Does our lack of belief render the truth suddenly false? I do not believe so He did not take away my sins? I think Jesus took away the sins of the world regardless of what we believe, accept, or reject.

Now, if belief is present in the heart, then the natural result will be a like confession: from out of the heart

Luke 6:45 KJV
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Like I said, if anyone is still dominated by sin, they are not born again. Jesus came to set us free, not keep us bound in captivity.

And saying we are sinless makes us flat out liars

Just because people act good, puts on a good show, believes they act only morally still doesn't make anyone sinless for even a nanosecond

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Have you wondered what aspects of reality have to be believed in order to be true?
For instance, you do not have to believe that God created the heavens and earth in order for it to be true. Your believing is neither here nor there. It is true regardless of what you believe.

Healing OTOH, needs to be believed to become true. So also prayers and other things.

The question comes to me: Do we have to believe that Jesus took away the sins of the world, i.e., our sins, in order for it to be true? What if we (for whatever reason, ignorance, doubt, etc) do not believe? Does our lack of belief render the truth suddenly false? I do not believe so He did not take away my sins? I think Jesus took away the sins of the world regardless of what we believe, accept, or reject.

Now, if belief is present in the heart, then the natural result will be a like confession: from out of the heart

Luke 6:45 KJV
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Jesus didn't take away sins and thus make any person sinless. 2 different matters. Saying we are sinless as long as we act good is not the case. Claiming we are sinless would be a ridiculous claim on the face of it. Anyone who tells me they are sinless just stamps them as a deceived religious hypocrite.

Dominion over sin and eradication are 2 entirely different matters. When we honestly claim, as we should, that we are sinners, that honesty is a form of domination. A devil can not tell the truth of this matter.

Eradication of sin comes with our new body. When disobedience, corruption, weakness, dishonor, sin and our evil conscience are put off entirely. 1 Cor 15:42-46

What did happen in the here, for natural mankind, is sins are not counted against people. 2 Cor 5:19 (NIV) is a decent thumbnail summary of this.

So not counting doesn't make us sinless. It means that sins are not attributed to people, but people are still sinners in need of our Savior.

Why then is sin even on the docket?

Because it is still a present reality. And the big kicker is, sin is actually of the devil. Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8 among other citings. When we see this we are repelled at such slave ship. It does go against our grain, as born again.

Sins are not counted or attributed toward people. Sins are still counted and continue to be accounted to the devil(s)

That's why it's a best practice not to be an outright openly revealed slave. But it doesn't mean the devil stopped working internally in anyone. Theft of word occurs in our hearts. Temptation transpires in our minds. And these are activities of the devil in people. Sinning defiling.

And we should be thankful God is and remains against all such things, even though they transpire in us

 

[ARBITER01]

And saying we are sinless makes us flat out liars

Did I say that we were sinless?

I said,.... that we are no longer dominated by sin, ie we are no longer just poor wretched sinners.

But yes, there is a point a person can reach where they no longer sin in their life. Paul reached it. In fact, he was wanting the resurrection body. I think you need to stop listening to people who tell you lies and pay attention better to what our bible says.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Did I say that we were sinless?

Well, that pretty much settles it then doesn't it?

 

[ARBITER01]

Well, that pretty much settles it then doesn't it?

If you wish to think that you will never be anything more for GOD than just a sinner,.... by all means run off and go play.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If you wish to think that you will never be anything more for GOD than just a sinner,.... by all means run off and go play.

Being honest does have its heavenly rewards

 

[jiminpa]

Being honest does have its heavenly rewards

But if you are saying what the Bible disagrees with are you being honest, and if you are being honest then you should be very concerned, because every Bible I've ever read says that if one is in Christ he is a new creation and that in Jesus we are no longer slaves to sin. If you are still a sinner, you should be concerned. Yes, we are still in a fallen world, and do still sin, but if it is who we are, then we are not in Christ.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

But if you are saying what the Bible disagrees with are you being honest, and if you are being honest then you should be very concerned, because every Bible I've ever read says that if one is in Christ he is a new creation and that in Jesus we are no longer slaves to sin.

It is only if we completely disregard a veritable mountain of other scriptures, such as evil thoughts defiling us all, per Mark 7:21-23.

Unless of course you think that never happens to you and in which case I'd question your judgment

jiminpa: If you are still a sinner, you should be concerned. Yes, we are still in a fallen world, and do still sin, but if it is who we are, then we are not in Christ.

Well, glad you at least picked up the obvious. There is never a time when we are not sinners i.e. sinless, period. We do not fall into sin from a prior sinless state, nor do we return to a sinless state by any forms of actions such as confession, repentance, contrition, communion, etc etc. None of that makes anyone sinless.

The position of sinlessness was eternally reserved for only for One Perfect Lamb, Jesus Christ

 

[ARBITER01]

It is only if we completely disregard a veritable mountain of other scriptures, such as evil thoughts defiling us all, per Mark 7:21-23.

Unless of course you think that never happens to you and in which case I'd question your judgment


Well, glad you at least picked up the obvious. There is never a time when we are not sinners i.e. sinless, period. We do not fall into sin from a prior sinless state, nor do we return to a sinless state by any forms of actions such as confession, repentance, contrition, communion, etc etc. None of that makes anyone sinless.

The position of sinlessness was eternally reserved for only for One Perfect Lamb, Jesus Christ

Again, that is just a bunch of lies.

1Jn 3:7 My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:
1Jn 3:8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

You're advocating for a continual sinful Christianity,.... according to scripture here, you are of the devil.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Again, that is just a bunch of lies.

You're advocating for a continual sinful Christianity,.... according to scripture here, you are of the devil.

Step right up and claim sinlessness then, and get it over with. You just finished saying you were a sinner. Back peddling?

I have no issues saying I'm a sinner and my sin is of the devil, just as the scriptures claim. Anyone who has internal temptations of the tempter should be able to say the same, if they are capable to speak, truthfully