Parable of the Sower and the Soils

[atpollard]

There are some passages that REALLY need to be studied in their context, but are typically yanked out as a stand-alone verse to support a predetermined position. I wanted to examine one of these and talk with other Christians about 3 questions …

1. What does it say? (Let’s read the ACTUAL WORDS.)
2. What does it mean? (Setting aside presuppositions, and taking the whole context into account.)
3. What does God expect us to do with this information? (The Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers to include that in scripture for no reason, so why is it still important to us based on #1 and #2 above.)

So this is one of those “passages” that I had in mind (appearing in three Gospels) as both a parable and an explanation.

Matthew 13

3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [fn]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.

18 “Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20 The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”​

Mark 4

3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”

13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they [fn]fall away. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [fn]world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”​

Luke 8

5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

11 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.​

So any thoughts?

 

[atpollard]

WHAT DOES IT SAY?
I’ll take a shot at getting the conversation started.
It says:

God’s word (seed) is heard by all sorts of people.

The condition of their heart (soil) makes all the difference in the world.

• (PATH) Some hear the word but have no understanding at all, so the devil snatches the word away immediately so they do not believe and are not saved.
  
  
• (ROCKY) Some hear the word and “immediately receive it with joy” and “believe for a while”, until “affliction or persecution” comes then he “falls away”.
  
  
• (THORNS) Some hear the word and go on their way, but worry and wealth choke out the word making (it or them?) unfruitful.
  
  
• (GOOD) Some hear the word (in an honest and good heart) and understand it and accept it (holds fast to it) and “bring forth” fruit.

 

[levnishbar]

Although the wording clearly refers to different individuals, I would like to suggest that perhaps it may apply to different inclinations to sin within the same person.

For example I am consciously aware that I tend to get distracted by things good, or bad, and take my eyes of Jesus.

At the end of the day, a relationship with Jesus is the most valuable thing and nothing that can be taken away from us, or given to us, can replace that.

 

[Hammster]

One thing to see is that the vast majority of people will be saved, especially if you take into consideration the rest of Matthew 13.

 

[Clare73]

There are some passages that REALLY need to be studied in their context, but are typically yanked out as a stand-alone verse to support a predetermined position. I wanted to examine one of these and talk with other Christians about 3 questions …
What does it say? (Let’s read the ACTUAL WORDS.)

1. • What does it mean? (Setting aside presuppositions, and taking the whole context into account.)
   • What does God expect us to do with this information? (The Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers to include that in scripture for no reason, so why is it still important to us based on #1 and #2 above.)

So this is one of those “passages” that I had in mind (appearing in three Gospels) as both a parable and an explanation.

Matthew 13

3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [fn]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.

18 “Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20 The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”​

Mark 4

3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”

13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they [fn]fall away. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [fn]world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”​

Luke 8

5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

11 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.​

So any thoughts?

It's about counterfeit and genuine faith. . .only the fourth soil was genuine faith.

 

[Ligurian]

What does God expect us to do with this information? (The Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers to include that in scripture for no reason[...]

Matthew 13[...]

Ιησους says He spoke the words given to Him by the Father.
From there, His true Disciples were enabled by the Holy Spirit to remember what Ιησους spoke.

Matthew 13:19-23 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the (ὁδόν)way side.KJV

Called

[20] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word and anon with joy receiveth it.[21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
(skandalon = stumbling-block, entrap: make to offend, apostacy)
[22] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. (John 15:2 unfruitful) (thorns, Matthew 7:16)

Chosen

[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word and understandeth, which also beareth fruit; and bringeth forth some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Matthew 13:10-11, Matthew 13:16-17, Matthew 13:37-38, John 15:5-7)

Faithful

Revelation 2:8-11 ...poverty, (but thou art rich)... [10] Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches: He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. (Revelation 3:7-12)

Called and Chosen and Faithful

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they that are with Him are called and chosen and faithful. (Revelation 14:1-5) (Revelation 7:4-8)

 

[atpollard]

One thing to see is that the vast majority of people will be saved, especially if you take into consideration the rest of Matthew 13.

I am unsure how you can arrive at that conclusion from those words. The (PATH) never accepted the word, so there can have been no salvation where the word was not even received. The (ROCKY) abandoned the faith, so at best they believed and turned to apostasy … I do not see how that describes someone in the kingdom entering eternal life. The (THORNS) are described as “unfruitful” and I am not easily convinced that a tree that bears “bad fruit” (no good fruit) is not destined to be burned … which sounds more like James’ “dead faith” with no works that cannot save. Only the (GOOD) soil bears good fruit and can with certainty be KNOWN to be saved.

By simple statistics, that places it at 1 in 4 … hardly a “vast majority”.

How is it that you come to the conclusion from the parable that the STONES and TARES are ultimately saved? What in the text leads you to that conclusion?

 

[atpollard]

It's about counterfeit and genuine faith. . .only the fourth soil was genuine faith.

That is how I am inclined to read it as well.

From other passages (Like John 6:44-45 and Ephesians 2:1-10 and Romans 9) I am inclined towards a view of SALVATION where “God does the choosing and the saving” and Jesus will save ALL of those that the Father has given to Him. However, the parable of the Sower and the Seed is a fly in the ointment of my Biblical view of salvation. [Most people have verses that are problematic for their view, whatever their view is, but refuse to admit it.]

Does the parable not sound like the ROCKY SOIL and THORNY SOIL may have believed (as in John 3:16 “whosoever believes”) for a while and then stopped believing? That is a description of BEING SAVED and FALLING FROM SALVATION. Since that holds a problem for my preconceived worldview of scripture, I must struggle to understand EXACTLY what Jesus said and meant so that I can understand the TRUTH (whether that requires upholding or changing my world view).

Have you any thoughts on “a little bit saved” and the two middle soils?

 

[atpollard]

Ιησους says He spoke the words given to Him by the Father.
From there, His true Disciples were enabled by the Holy Spirit to remember what Ιησους spoke.

Matthew 13:19-23 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the (ὁδόν)way side.KJV

Called

[20] But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word and anon with joy receiveth it.[21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
(skandalon = stumbling-block, entrap: make to offend, apostacy)
[22] He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. (John 15:2 unfruitful) (thorns, Matthew 7:16)

Chosen

[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word and understandeth, which also beareth fruit; and bringeth forth some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Matthew 13:10-11, Matthew 13:16-17, Matthew 13:37-38, John 15:5-7)

Faithful

Revelation 2:8-11 ...poverty, (but thou art rich)... [10] Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches: He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. (Revelation 3:7-12)

Called and Chosen and Faithful

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they that are with Him are called and chosen and faithful. (Revelation 14:1-5) (Revelation 7:4-8)

So have I understood you correctly if I summarize your post as:

• Some are not CALLED (the Path)
  
• Some are Some are CALLED but not CHOSEN (the Stone and Tares)
• Some are CALLED, CHOSEN and FAITHFUL (the Good Soil) and they alone enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[Hammster]

I am unsure how you can arrive at that conclusion from those words. The (PATH) never accepted the word, so there can have been no salvation where the word was not even received. The (ROCKY) abandoned the faith, so at best they believed and turned to apostasy … I do not see how that describes someone in the kingdom entering eternal life. The (THORNS) are described as “unfruitful” and I am not easily convinced that a tree that bears “bad fruit” (no good fruit) is not destined to be burned … which sounds more like James’ “dead faith” with no works that cannot save. Only the (GOOD) soil bears good fruit and can with certainty be KNOWN to be saved.

By simple statistics, that places it at 1 in 4 … hardly a “vast majority”.

How is it that you come to the conclusion from the parable that the STONES and TARES are ultimately saved? What in the text leads you to that conclusion?

You drew the wrong conclusion. When a sower goes out, it goes out mostly to good soil. The rocks and thorns are not the main place where seeds get sown.

 

[d taylor]

-​

This parable is about believers and their fruit bearing. It is not about showing that only true believers bear fruit.

Of the four soils, only the first soil never believes and is not saved.
The other three soils (2nd, 3rd and 4th) are saved believers. But out of the three soils who are saved believers, only the fourth soil bears fruit and is a productive believer. The 2nd and 3rd soils believers bear no fruit.

 

[atpollard]

-​

This parable is about believers and their fruit bearing. It is not about showing that only true believers bear fruit.

Of the four soils, only the first soil never believes and is not saved.
The other three soils (2nd, 3rd and 4th) are saved believers. But out of the three soils who are saved believers, only the fourth soil bears fruit and is a productive believer. The 2nd and 3rd soils believers bear no fruit.

This is clear in Luke, but look closely at the choice of words in the parallel Gospels. They seem to say something different in their word choice, do they not?

 

[d taylor]

This is clear in Luke, but look closely at the choice of words in the parallel Gospels. They seem to say something different in their word choice, do they not?

No do not see that. This is giving an example of believers and in the case of this parable. Three types of believers (2nd, 3rd and 4th soil) and their fruit bearing. They (Believers soils) are, in all three Gospels compared against the one unbelieving soil in the three Gospels.

A parable in one Gospel will not say something different in another Gospel. The whole of The Bible must be in agreement as to be The Word of God.

 

[atpollard]

No do not see that. This is giving an example of believers and in the case of this parable. Three types of believers (2nd, 3rd and 4th soil) and their fruit bearing. They (Believers soils) are, in all three Gospels compared against the one unbelieving soil in the three Gospels.

A parable in one Gospel will not say something different in another Gospel. The whole of The Bible must be in agreement as to be The Word of God.

OK, Let’s look closer:

Soil 2 (STONE):

• Matthew 13:20 hears the word … receives it with joy
• Mark 4:16 hear the word … receive it with joy
• Luke 8:13 hear, receive the word with joy … believe for a while
• Only in Luke does it say that they “believed” the word. Many today “receive” a salvation in which they have no “belief”. Modern churches are full of people “saved” because they attend church and it entertains them while making them feel good.

Soil 3 (THORNS):

• Matthew 13:22 hears the word … choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful
• Mark 4:18-19 heard the word … choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful
• Luke 8:14 heard … choked … bring no fruit to maturity.
• Matthew and Mark say they “became unfruitful” (no fruit), while Luke says whatever fruit they did or did not produce simply never reached “maturity”. A tree with no fruit is different from a tree with immature fruit. Remember “You will know them by their fruit” and “No bad tree bears good fruit”.

As I said, LUKE agrees closely with your conclusions that only the FIRST SOIL was unsaved, while Matthew and Mark hold open the option that only the GOOD SOIL was saved and the second and third soils were part of 1 John 2:19 “Tares” among the “Wheat”.

 

[d taylor]

OK, Let’s look closer:

Soil 2 (STONE):

• Matthew 13:20 hears the word … receives it with joy
• Mark 4:16 hear the word … receive it with joy
• Luke 8:13 hear, receive the word with joy … believe for a while
• Only in Luke does it say that they “believed” the word. Many today “receive” a salvation in which they have no “belief”. Modern churches are full of people “saved” because they attend church and it entertains them while making them feel good.

Soil 3 (THORNS):

• Matthew 13:22 hears the word … choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful
• Mark 4:18-19 heard the word … choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful
• Luke 8:14 heard … choked … bring no fruit to maturity.
• Matthew and Mark say they “became unfruitful” (no fruit), while Luke says whatever fruit they did or did not produce simply never reached “maturity”. A tree with no fruit is different from a tree with immature fruit. Remember “You will know them by their fruit” and “No bad tree bears good fruit”.

As I said, LUKE agrees closely with your conclusions that only the FIRST SOIL was unsaved, while Matthew and Mark hold open the option that only the GOOD SOIL was saved and the second and third soils were part of 1 John 2:19 “Tares” among the “Wheat”.

The three soils 2nd, 3rd and 4th the seed (representing The Word Of God) in the three mentioned soils, the seed took root and sprang up. Showing that all there soils (2nd, 3rd and 4th) are believers. In the first soil the seed never took root and never sprang up.

 

[Hammster]

-​

This parable is about believers and their fruit bearing. It is not about showing that only true believers bear fruit.

Of the four soils, only the first soil never believes and is not saved.
The other three soils (2nd, 3rd and 4th) are saved believers. But out of the three soils who are saved believers, only the fourth soil bears fruit and is a productive believer. The 2nd and 3rd soils believers bear no fruit.

They aren’t really believers. See John 15.

 

[d taylor]

They aren’t really believers. See John 15.

I believe we have had discussions before and we simply to do have the same beliefs about God's free gift of Eternal Life. So what is the point of doing another back and forth.

 

[Hammster]

I believe we have had discussions before and we simply to do have the same beliefs about God's free gift of Eternal Life. So what is the point of doing another back and forth.

I feel the need to proclaim the truth. Fruit is evidence of saving faith.


Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
— Matthew 3:8

The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
— Matthew 3:10


So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
— Matthew 7:17-20


My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
— John 15:8

 

[atpollard]

I feel the need to proclaim the truth. Fruit is evidence of saving faith.


Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
— Matthew 3:8

The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
— Matthew 3:10


So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
— Matthew 7:17-20


My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
— John 15:8

What are your thoughts on Luke 8:14 and the Third Soil and the possibility of bearing immature fruit that never reaches maturity?

Would that be more like the Rich Young Ruler who came so close, but turned away from Christ because the world offered more than he was willing to lose, or the man that escapes to heaven through a fire with nothing to show for his life?

 

[Hammster]

What are your thoughts on Luke 8:14 and the Third Soil and the possibility of bearing immature fruit that never reaches maturity?

Would that be more like the Rich Young Ruler who came so close, but turned away from Christ because the world offered more than he was willing to lose, or the man that escapes to heaven through a fire with nothing to show for his life?

I think it’s more like Judas where if you looked at him for three years, you wouldn’t know that he wasn’t a true believer. His lack of repentance is the final evidence of his state.