Parable of the Sower and the Soils

[d taylor]

I feel the need to proclaim the truth. Fruit is evidence of saving faith.


Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
— Matthew 3:8

The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
— Matthew 3:10


So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
— Matthew 7:17-20


My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
— John 15:8

So you are proclaiming truth, too bad your truth is not backed up by facts.

Not a single verse you posted states that if a believer does not bear fruit they are not a believer.

The only condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is to believe/trust/have faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[Hammster]

So you are proclaiming truth, too bad your truth is not backed up by facts.

Not a single verse you posted states that if a believer does not bear fruit they are not a believer.

The only condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is to believe/trust/have faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

And the evidence is fruit.

 

[atpollard]

Not a single verse you posted states that if a believer does not bear fruit they are not a believer.

The book of James does.

James 2:14-17, 26 [NASB95]

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for [their] body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, [being] by itself. ... 26 For just as the body without [the] spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.​

The only condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is to believe/trust/have faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

I agree (and so does Paul) …

Romans 10:8-13 [NASB95]

8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."​

Where it gets interesting is that both Paul and James must be telling the truth. That’s where Ephesians 2 comes into play:

Ephesians 2:8-10 [NASB95]

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
​

We all agree (as far as I can tell) that people get into trouble when they try to require Ephesians 2:10 works as a prerequisite for God’s Ephesians 2:8-9 grace.

However what about a person that claims the Ephesians 2:8-9 grace, but never seems to walk in any of the Ephesians 2:10 goos works? James says they have good reason to worry that their faith is a counterfeit.

So God can and does save without our “good works” to help Him, but God’s saving Grace produces in us a harvest of “good works” … fruit in the Parable of the Sower and the seed, produced in the good soil.

 

[d taylor]

The book of James does.

James 2:14-17, 26 [NASB95]

14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for [their] body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, [being] by itself. ... 26 For just as the body without [the] spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.​

​

It only does when you misunderstand its message or meaning. Like all of the other verses that have been posted.
Prove the saving in James is speaking about an Eternal Life salvation and not the physical saving of a believer.

Either a person believers the truth of verses like these or they do not.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

So from your post, i am guessing you do not believe that when a person trust in The Messiah they cross over from death to life. That there is some unmentioned requirement from God that faith is actually not enough. A person must also bear fruit to actually receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

From yours and others posting, that is my only conclusion.

 

[atpollard]

So from your post, i am guessing you do not believe that when a person trust in The Messiah they cross over from death to life. That there is some unmentioned requirement from God that faith is actually not enough. A person must also bear fruit to actually receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

From yours and others posting, that is my only conclusion.

Respectfully, I do not think that you actually READ what I wrote but merely read enough to confirm your preformed opinions of what I believed … allowing you to wait to speak rather than listen from that point forward.

Can a man experience the transformation of Ephesians 2:1-9 and NOT walk in Ephesians 2:10?

Can a man be drawn by the Father and transformed by the encounter with the Son and then continue to live a life as if nothing were different?

I believe that meeting God irreversibly changes a person. Where there is no change, there is every reason to question the honesty of the claim to be a “new creation”.

That is not SYNERGISM, rather it is EFFECTUAL MONERGISM (as compared to a Matthew 15:8 dead religion).

That is what makes studying the two middle soils important. People want to gloss over them quickly and say “all three are good soils and saved” or “all three are bad soils and not saved” … but neither glossing over accurately states what the actual Scripture states.

I abandoned Nihilism when God called me, so the Truth matters to me and you could not be more wrong thinking that I believe in a WORKS based salvation.

 

[d taylor]

Respectfully, I do not think that you actually READ what I wrote but merely read enough to confirm your preformed opinions of what I believed … allowing you to wait to speak rather than listen from that point forward.

Can a man experience the transformation of Ephesians 2:1-9 and NOT walk in Ephesians 2:10?

Can a man be drawn by the Father and transformed by the encounter with the Son and then continue to live a life as if nothing were different?

I believe that meeting God irreversibly changes a person. Where there is no change, there is every reason to question the honesty of the claim to be a “new creation”.

That is not SYNERGISM, rather it is EFFECTUAL MONERGISM (as compared to a Matthew 15:8 dead religion).

That is what makes studying the two middle soils important. People want to gloss over them quickly and say “all three are good soils and saved” or “all three are bad soils and not saved” … but neither glossing over accurately states what the actual Scripture states.

I abandoned Nihilism when God called me, so the Truth matters to me and you could not be more wrong thinking that I believe in a WORKS based salvation.

You are saying the same thing again and again just using different verses. And that is that a believer will have fruit or a change life.

Take Judas he was never a false believer because he never believed in the first place.

A false believer just can not exist. for some reason you seem to not understand that. Either a person has believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life or they have not.

What has been trying to be said, is that a false believer can and does exist. But false believer can not exist, there can be people who have never believed or there can be people who have believed.

 

[d taylor]

-​

What people who say that " belief/faith/trust " must have a qualifier to be judged as real " belief/faith/trust "

They have created from The Bible the qualifier of, fruit bearing or as some say a changed life (which is the result of repentance) so actually they are adding the actions of repentance to " belief/faith/trust " in receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.

So verses like John 3:16, etc...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So for these people who insist on saying a person must have fruit or a changed life, etc... for a believer to be a real believer. From my observations they end up making John 3:16 and other verses of the same message, Saying: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes and bears fruit or has a changed life, etc. in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Hammster]

So for these people who insist on saying a person must have fruit or a changed life, etc... for a believer to be a real believer. From my observations they end up making John 3:16 and other verses of the same message, Saying: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes and bears fruit or has a changed life, etc. in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

You are ignoring scripture. I’ve already posted just some of the verses that talk about bearing fruit (not to mention the OP), but there’s more.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:27-28

Following is evidence.

“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
— John 14:15

Keeping His commandments is following. This is all in line with bearing fruit.

 

[Soyeong]

There are some passages that REALLY need to be studied in their context, but are typically yanked out as a stand-alone verse to support a predetermined position. I wanted to examine one of these and talk with other Christians about 3 questions …

1. 
   
   
   • What does it say? (Let’s read the ACTUAL WORDS.)
   • What does it mean? (Setting aside presuppositions, and taking the whole context into account.)
   • What does God expect us to do with this information? (The Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers to include that in scripture for no reason, so why is it still important to us based on #1 and #2 above.)

So this is one of those “passages” that I had in mind (appearing in three Gospels) as both a parable and an explanation.

Matthew 13

3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [fn]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.

18 “Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20 The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”​

Mark 4

3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”

13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they [fn]fall away. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [fn]world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”​

Luke 8

5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

11 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.​

So any thoughts?

The point of the parable is for us to ask the question of our selves about which type of soil are we? Christ's teachings are full of references to the OT, so we should look of different types of soils in the OT and what we should do if we find that we are a particular type of soil.

 

[Soyeong]

-​

What people who say that " belief/faith/trust " must have a qualifier to be judged as real " belief/faith/trust "

They have created from The Bible the qualifier of, fruit bearing or as some say a changed life (which is the result of repentance) so actually they are adding the actions of repentance to " belief/faith/trust " in receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.

So verses like John 3:16, etc...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So for these people who insist on saying a person must have fruit or a changed life, etc... for a believer to be a real believer. From my observations they end up making John 3:16 and other verses of the same message, Saying: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes and bears fruit or has a changed life, etc. in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Repentance is turning away from leaning on our understanding of doing right and wrong and trusting in God to make our paths straight, so it is inherently an act of faith.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Luke 10:25-28, the way to inherit life is by obeying the greatest two commandments. In John 12:50, his commandment is eternal life. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so obedience to God's law is itself part of the content of His gift of eternal life. In Hebrews 5:9, eternal salvation will be given to those who obey Christ. In Revelation 22:14, those who obey God's commandments will be given access to the Tree of Life. So these verses and many others like them combined with John 3:16 means that obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in the Son, not that we add our fruit to believing.

In John 17:3, God's gift of eternal life is the experience on knowing Him and Jesus through expressing His nature, and God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, not something that we need to do in addition to believing. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. The way that we live expresses what we believe to be true about the nature of who God is, so when we do good works, we are expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, and testifying about God's goodness, or in other words, we are believing in Him, and this is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to His commandments, or that connect our unbelief with our disobedience.

 

[Hammster]

The point of the parable is for us to ask the question of our selves about which type of soil are we? Christ's teachings are full of references to the OT, so we should look of different types of soils in the OT and what we should do if we find that we are a particular type of soil.

I would argue that the parable is descriptive rather than prescriptive. We cannot change our hearts, so we need an outside influence. Much like fertile soil does.

 

[d taylor]

You are ignoring scripture. I’ve already posted just some of the verses that talk about bearing fruit (not to mention the OP), but there’s more.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:27-28

Following is evidence.

“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
— John 14:15

Keeping His commandments is following. This is all in line with bearing fruit.

I no longer really care (or care to do back and forths with you) about your opinions. Like i said I am completely opposed to your theology and there is nothing more to say from me to you.

So you can in future post, quote my post, but more than likely i will not reply when it pertains to Eternal Life, losing salvation.

 

[Hammster]

I no longer really care (or care to do back and forths with you) about your opinions. Like i said I am completely opposed to your theology and there is nothing more to say from me to you.

So you can in future post, quote my post, but more than likely i will not reply when it pertains to Eternal Life, losing salvation.

That’s fine. I don’t require a response.

 

[d taylor]

If I created any contradictions, then by all means please point them out. The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where them doing the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was completely given to them as a gift, but rather that is the way to receive it. In a similar way, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus through expressing His nature (John 17:3), and I've already provided verses that show that God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, though I can provide more if you'd like. It's not a difficult concept.



In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so why do you think that obediently relying on what he said does not have assurance? God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to have faith in what God has instructed for how to enter eternal life is to have faith in God for eternal life, and for you to suggest that we have no assurance in obediently relying on what God has instructed is to deny the faithfulness of God, which means that what you are teaching is gospel of doubt.

Well i will just state one.

Over 15+ times in The Bible (New Testament) the only condition given to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is faith/belief/trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

But you focus on one area in Matthew that states eternal life is entered by keeping the Law.

And you can not see the contradiction, that keeping the Law is not faith.

 

[Soyeong]

And you can not see the contradiction, that keeping the Law is not faith.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, in Galatians 3:1-2, it denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to obedience to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of God, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of God, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. Again, God is trustworthy, therefore God's law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to put our faith in the law that God has instructed is to put our faith in God, while to deny that the law that God has instructed is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God.

Well i will just state one.

Over 15+ times in The Bible (New Testament) the only condition given to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is faith/belief/trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

But you focus on one area in Matthew that states eternal life is entered by keeping the Law.

While I agree that there are many verses that say that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son, I also cited many verses that say that the way to have eternal life is by obeying God's commandment, and I do not see these verses as contradicting each other, but rather clearly the way to believe in the Son is by obeying God's commandments.

Furthermore, there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to him or that connect our unbelief with our disobedience, such as in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In John 3:36, it equates believing in Jesus with obeying him. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience is described as breaking faith.

The way that we live expresses what we believe to be true about the nature of who Christ is, so when we do good works, we are testifying about God's goodness, or in other words, we are believing in him, which is why our good works bring glory to God (Matthew 5:16). In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, in Psalms 119:160, the sum of God's word is truth, and in John 1:14, the word of God became flesh, so he is the law, the truth, and the word of God made flesh, and the way to believe in the nature of who he is is by obeying the law of which he has been made flesh. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so he is the personification of God's nature or the physical manifestation of the nature of God expressed through the law, and the way to believe in the Son is by obeying the law of which he is the living embodiment.