When was the Flood of Noah?

[PeterDona]

Yah, I believe we all learned that the world started october 23, 4004 b.c. according to a study of the genealogies in Genesis done by Bishop Ussher. This seems to be disputable, but never mind. I would like a discussion, where/when does real evidence point that the flood was. I can begin myself with this contribution: Evidence Noah's biblical flood happened, says Robert Ballard that points to a flood in the Black sea region around 5000 B.C.

Looking forward to some interesting input. Stretch your googles .....

And please, if you want to comment that there was no flood, just dont comment in this thread.

 

[HitchSlap]

The earth is 4.5 byo, and there is no evidence of a worldwide flood.

 

[RickG]

Deleted: quoted the wrong person, sorry.

 

[Strathos]

There was a flood. In fact there were multiple large floods in human history. None of them covered the entire surface of the earth, though.

As for when... well I believe the one referred to or at least used as inspiration for the story in Genesis took place circa 5600 BC.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. I credit the year of the Flood to Bishop Ussher's chronology in general, and Genesis 6-9 in particular.

2. Noah didn't live anywhere near the Black Sea region when the Flood started. In other words, Noah ended his journey in the mountains of Ararat; he did not start his journey there.

3. All evidence for the Flood that wasn't "tied down" was siphoned off the earth and sent elsewhere. Evidence on the earth is, in my opinion, as follows:​

a) the White Cliffs of Dover and other swept-up and stockpiled coccolithophores

b) meandering rivers
c) the written documentation from God​

 

[Strathos]

You keep contradicting yourself there because you always say that no physical evidence was left.

 

[Paul K]

There were a television show one time on History Channel about that topic, The evidence of flood spanning world wide, shelled fossils high up in the rocky mountians, fossilized clusters of dinosaurs at the same time and same place, fish eating another fish fossilized in the middle of eating, small undulations on the bottom of the sea which is currently in Montana. Also If you check www.answersingenesis.org, they have some interesting articles in it. Also indigenous culture around the world have similar stories of a world wide flood regardless of their proximity to middle east. Its a fascinating topic to do research on. Good luck.

Paul

 

[AV1611VET]

You keep contradicting yourself there because you always say that no physical evidence was left.

QV please:

This particular creationist asserts that God stockpiled the coccoliths after the Flood, as part of His clean-up program.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And please, if you want to comment that there was no flood, just dont comment in this thread.

You asked where the real evidence pointed to.
The real evidence happens to point in the opposite direction of this story, sorry.

The biblical global flood story makes 2 scientifically testable predictions:
1. the presence of a global layer of flood sediment
2. the presence of a gigantic genetic bottle neck in every species.

None of both exist.
Therefor, the story is false.

 

[AV1611VET]

The biblical global flood story makes 2 scientifically testable predictions:
1. the presence of a global layer of flood sediment
2. the presence of a gigantic genetic bottle neck in every species.

None of both exist.
Therefor, the story is false.

Would these "scientifically testable predictions" happen to be based on a universe that came into existence via the Big Bang paradigm?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Would these "scientifically testable predictions" happen to be based on a universe that came into existence via the Big Bang paradigm?

No, they are based on reality. The reality that severely reducing population counts causes a genetic bottleneck, and the reality that flooding area's for prolonged periods of time, especially on that scale which would exert enormous amounts of force, cause geological effects.

 

[AV1611VET]

No,

Hmmm.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree on that one.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Funny stuff, AV. But only because I happened to watch Office Space yesterday.

 

[SteveB28]

There were a television show one time on History Channel about that topic, The evidence of flood spanning world wide, shelled fossils high up in the rocky mountians, fossilized clusters of dinosaurs at the same time and same place, fish eating another fish fossilized in the middle of eating, small undulations on the bottom of the sea which is currently in Montana. Also If you check www.answersingenesis.org, they have some interesting articles in it. Also indigenous culture around the world have similar stories of a world wide flood regardless of their proximity to middle east. Its a fascinating topic to do research on. Good luck.

Paul

Could you please explain how various "indigenous ćultures" around the world could attest to this mythical world wide flood if, according to the legend, everyone in the world was destroyed, except for 8 Middle Eastern people on a boat!?

 

[AV1611VET]

Funny stuff, AV. But only because I happened to watch Office Space yesterday.

 

[The Cadet]

And please, if you want to comment that there was no flood, just dont comment in this thread.

Why? It's the accurate answer. There was not a global flood in human history. The evidence we should find isn't there. Oddly, what we do find is evidence of flooding in the region the genesis account comes from, and a history of old flood mythos, but we never find evidence of a global flood in human history. It just didn't happen. And there are so many different ways we can prove this, if you'd like me to make a list.

There were a television show one time on History Channel about that topic, The evidence of flood spanning world wide, shelled fossils high up in the rocky mountians,

This is evidence of plate tectonics. We know that the rocky mountains used to be a large, inland sea during the late cretaceous:

If the marine fossils were, in fact, laid on top of the mountains by a flood, we would expect them to almost all be at or very near the outer layers. But that's not what we find - instead, we find the shells going pretty much all the way through. This is not evidence for a global flood.

fossilized clusters of dinosaurs at the same time and same place

This is also not evidence for a global flood. Granted, if there was a global flood which created all previous fossilized life, we should expect to find all fossils in one geologic layer. But we wouldn't expect just dinosaurs. We would expect everything. We should see human fossils with T-rex fossils. We should see trilobites with Ambulocetus. We don't. No, rather, the clusters of fossilized dinosaurs is because you need particular conditions for the fossilization of land animals, and when those conditions are met, we should expect to find such things. As none of this is sourced, I don't know what particular formation they're talking about (or what swirly thing in Montana, or what fish fossil), so I can't really judge. However, the fact is that the evidence we have runs directly contrary to a flood.

Also If you check www.answersingenesis.org, they have some interesting articles in it.

AiG has a fairly lax standard when it comes to the 9th commandment. You'd be better off with geology textbooks, TalkOrigins, NoAnswersInGenesis, or in fact just guessing from your armchair, as AiG is wrong about pretty much everything they write about.

 

[AV1611VET]

The evidence we should find isn't there.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is evidence of plate tectonics. We know that the rocky mountains used to be a large, inland sea during the late cretaceous:

If the marine fossils were, in fact, laid on top of the mountains by a flood, we would expect them to almost all be at or very near the outer layers. But that's not what we find - instead, we find the shells going pretty much all the way through. This is not evidence for a global flood.

Take a look at that map, then compare it with Genesis One.

What's on that map that shouldn't be?

As one poster is so used to saying: The map is not the territory.

Just slide New Jersey over about 3429 miles to the right, and you'll have it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hmmm.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree on that one.

You can disagree as much as you want, it won't change the facts. And it certainly won't change reality.

Concerning the genetic bottleneck, it's just pure math...
You have a large set with plenty of variation and you remove 99% of that variation by reducing that set to only a handfull. The result of which is very little variation. ie: a bottleneck.

The flood stuff is no different.
Water leaves traces: sediments, erosion, displacement, etc.

Everything we know about cosmology (big bang) could be wrong and those two facts would still be facts.

 

[SteveB28]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yes, it can be. Particularly when we should see some evidence if the claim is correct. If that evidence is not observed we can take this as a sign that the claim is false.

 

[AV1611VET]

Water leaves traces:

Operations leave scars.[VERSE=Genesis 2:21,KJV]And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;[/VERSE]God chose not to leave every scar made by the Flood.

In fact, He swept some things up into a neat pile and left them there (coccolith cliffs), and others He left as a serpentine hint at who was responsible for the Fall (meandering rivers).

The rest?

Well.

All gone.