• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Proof that the ESV, NIV, NASB are "Catholic bibles"

kiwimac

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian
Site Supporter
May 14, 2002
14,990
1,520
64
New Zealand
Visit site
✟620,160.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Utrecht
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Did you miss the bit when Jesus said "all authority in heaven and earth will be given to a book translated from what you will write into English in 1500 years time"?

Apparently so. However there are some questions that Will could answer for me if he would like.

Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
What Bible would these KJV-Onlyists recommend since obviously there was no Bible before 1611.
Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
If the KJV translators were inspired, why did they use marginal references to the apocrypha as in this example:

kjv-1611-version-margin-notes-hebrews-11-35.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Unix

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2003
2,568
84
43
ECC,Torah:ModeCommenta,OTL,AY BC&RL,Seow a ICC Job
Visit site
✟161,717.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Read Aurelius Augustinus letter 76!
/Mikael Haapala a REB reader, found in 1st 'epistle of John' 4.8, .16 that REB seems to have used African Psalter from the Apostolic Fathers
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
Apparently so. However there are some questions that Will could answer for me if he would like.

Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769.
What Bible would these KJV-Onlyists recommend since obviously there was no Bible before 1611.
Do they realize that the apostle Paul did not use the KJV.
Why do KJV only advocates reject the apocrypha, since the original 1611 version contained the apocrypha?
If the KJV translators were inspired, why did they use marginal references to the apocrypha as in this example:

kjv-1611-version-margin-notes-hebrews-11-35.jpg

Hi Kiwi. You "NO Bible IS or ever was the inerrant words of God" fellas can continue to mock and Yuk Yuk it up all you like and have a great time among yourselves scoffing at the idea that the King James Bible or any other Bible is the infallible words of God because that is precisely the position you all find yourselves. You may pretend to believe "The Bible" which none of you ever get around to identifying for us IS the inerrant words of God, but the simple fact is you have no infallible Bible and you know it.

So you come up with silly questions like the ones you just posted that you picked up from other bible agnostics like yourselves. The Apocrypha? Golly, another Stumper for us Bible believers.

You might want to do a little more honest research into this matter and find out why not only the King James Bible but just about every bible of the time included the Apocryphal books. Not only that, but when you "No bible is inerrant" folks bring up this issue, you are cutting your own throats. Here is why:

Apocrypha KJB - Another King James Bible Believer

Will Kinney
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,438
3,872
On the bus to Heaven
✟67,578.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hi Kiwi. You "NO Bible IS or ever was the inerrant words of God" fellas can continue to mock and Yuk Yuk it up all you like and have a great time among yourselves scoffing at the idea that the King James Bible or any other Bible is the infallible words of God because that is precisely the position you all find yourselves. You may pretend to believe "The Bible" which none of you ever get around to identifying for us IS the inerrant words of God, but the simple fact is you have no infallible Bible and you know it.

So you come up with silly questions like the ones you just posted that you picked up from other bible agnostics like yourselves. The Apocrypha? Golly, another Stumper for us Bible believers.

You might want to do a little more honest research into this matter and find out why not only the King James Bible but just about every bible of the time included the Apocryphal books. Not only that, but when you "No bible is inerrant" folks bring up this issue, you are cutting your own throats. Here is why:

Apocrypha KJB - Another King James Bible Believer

Will Kinney

Hehe Will. Using an article from your own blog does not constitute proof. :doh:
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
43
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Please allow me to disagree with you ebia. The pre-nicene churches still hold to the Apostles' creed.

and

Cf can use whatever rules it likes, what it cannot do is decide that Christians are not Christian enough.

With all due respect to you, the Holy Spirit inspired that Creed.

God was speaking through those bishops, reading the both the Holy Writ and the Apostolic and pre-Nicaea Fathers, when they declared the Creed to be the standard of orthodoxy.

Having read a couple more posts...


If you stand far enough away, even two things that are not very close to each other, like stars, can look close together.

Yup. A lot of the stars we see in either hemisphere are truly binaries or groups of even more stars but look as one due to being so far away.

Did you miss the bit when Jesus said "all authority in heaven and earth will be given to a book translated from what you will write into English in 1500 years time"?

Must be in the Apocrypha :p

There is no scriptural support for KJV-Onlyism. None at all.

Now here I wholeheartedly agree!

The KJV was based on seven texts no earlier than the 12th century (two dated to the 15th century, probably less than years before his 1st edition since it was printed in 1515-1516!). Furthermore, Erasmus utilized the Vulgate in other ways, using it to self-create Greek words based on its readings instead of the texts he had.

His second edition did use one more source, but didn't include the Comma Johanneum because even in the then 8 texts, all so very late, none of them included the additional phrase in 1 St. John 5:7. He also noted that many of the early Latin texts didn't include it either.

His third through fifth editions only included it because a source from his own 16th century was "provided" for him (an obvious copy of a 10th century text with the extra phrase added in for good effect, as it wasn't in the original 10th century text), and he specifically noted his deepest reservations about its authenticity (boy was he right!).

I thank God my faith isn't dependent on 7-8 texts ridiculously late texts (downright modern at the time!), a corrupt Vulgate text, and the personal (though probably well-intended) inventions of Erasmus.

The KJV had its place. It has been replaced by better translations from better sources.

Get a NRSV, RSV, NAB, EOB/OSB, NASB, NIV, etc.
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
The KJV was based on seven texts no earlier than the 12th century (two dated to the 15th century, probably less than years before his 1st edition since it was printed in 1515-1516!). Furthermore, Erasmus utilized the Vulgate in other ways, using it to self-create Greek words based on its readings instead of the texts he had.

His second edition did use one more source, but didn't include the Comma Johanneum because even in the then 8 texts, all so very late, none of them included the additional phrase in 1 St. John 5:7. He also noted that many of the early Latin texts didn't include it either.

His third through fifth editions only included it because a source from his own 16th century was "provided" for him (an obvious copy of a 10th century text with the extra phrase added in for good effect, as it wasn't in the original 10th century text), and he specifically noted his deepest reservations about its authenticity (boy was he right!).

I thank God my faith isn't dependent on 7-8 texts ridiculously late texts (downright modern at the time!), a corrupt Vulgate text, and the personal (though probably well-intended) inventions of Erasmus.

The KJV had its place. It has been replaced by better translations from better sources.

Get a NRSV, RSV, NAB, EOB/OSB, NASB, NIV, etc.

Hi Paladin, you really have no idea what you are talking about here, do you. Not a clue. The KJB translators did not even use the Greek text of Erasmus as their primary source. They used the Greek texts of Stephanus and Beza and they compared several foreign language Bibles as well. In 99% of the cases, further mansucript discoveries have only served to confirm the readings found in the King James Bible.

As for your ever changing NASB, NIV, ESV stuff, they base their omission of literally thousands of words by following primarily 2 old Greek mss. that not only disagree with the majority of Greek mss. out there remaining, but with each other just 3000 times in the gospels alone.

Now your NIV, NASB, ESVs are nothing more than the "new" Catholic bible versions put together by a joint effort of the United BS made up of Catholics and apostate Evangelicals, none of whom believes in the inerrancy of the Scriptures. Did you even bother to read the initial article before you started to post the misinformation you just gave us? Probably not.

Have a nice day,

Will K
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
43
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hi Paladin, you really have no idea what you are talking about here, do you. Not a clue.

Actually, I do; more than you.

The KJB translators did not even use the Greek text of Erasmus as their primary source. They used the Greek texts of Stephanus and Beza and they compared several foreign language Bibles as well. In 99% of the cases, further mansucript discoveries have only served to confirm the readings found in the King James Bible.

First off, they used the Masoretic Text, which is no earlier than the 9th century. When you compare all the latest discoveries, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, they more agree with the Septuagint than they do with the MT, which goes to show how corrupted they became over time.

Secondly, Tyndale's translation was based on Erasmus' 3rd edition of the Novum Instrumentium omne. Most of the language in the KJV is his, despite the twelve sources used for the NT. So my saying 7-8 with a strong Vulgate influence wasn't wrong.

Lastly, your last "factoid" is dead wrong. Most new discoveries point to the flaws of the MT and the validity of the Septuagint in terms of the OT. In terms of the NT, the most ancient resources, which may be the minority today, were the vast majority of their day. Fewer scribal errors means better material.

As for your ever changing NASB, NIV, ESV stuff, they base their omission of literally thousands of words by following primarily 2 old Greek mss. that not only disagree with the majority of Greek mss. out there remaining, but with each other just 3000 times in the gospels alone.

The Four Gospels disagree too at times. Based on your logic, Christianity is bunk.

Now your NIV, NASB, ESVs are nothing more than the "new" Catholic bible versions put together by a joint effort of the United BS made up of Catholics and apostate Evangelicals, none of whom believes in the inerrancy of the Scriptures. Did you even bother to read the initial article before you started to post the misinformation you just gave us? Probably not.

Most Early Christians didn't believe in inerrancy as you define it. Read St. Augustine of Hippo sometime, arguably the most knowledgeable of the Western Fathers about the Holy Writ.

As such, your definition of inerrancy means diddly-poop when it comes to Christian orthodoxy.

The new translations are based on the best material, the same material the Early Church used. You chose instead to read stuff the Church had when the Popes were abusive and the East (using your same Byzantine textual family) had a theology that you would consider Pagan.

And you probably criticize the minority texts partly out of some fear of "heresy." Oye...

The KJV was based on flawed texts, and there were better known texts at the time. What kept them away was the ridiculous anti-Roman Catholicism going on, and we're talking post-Trent when many of those abuses had finally ceased.

Oh, and mind you, the KJV had the Deuterocanon in it. And don't forget: we Anglicans acknowledge those books. We had them in our liturgies back then and we still have them today. It is OUR translation. Don't tell us about its use or its reason for being; we invented it! :)
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
43
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Have it your way, Kiwi. Remember, your "inspired and inerrant Bible" IS those non-existent, never seen by you, phantom, mystical and hypothetical "originals only". We Bible believers know where you're coming from.

Will K

Everyone here believes in the Holy Bible. We simply have a more orthodox understanding of it than you.

The Holy Writ is inspired and inerrant in matters of faith, doctrine, salvation, and morals. No one (or I hope no one) is questioning that. What we question is your psuedohistorical idea of inerrancy and Bible translation.
 
Upvote 0

Unix

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2003
2,568
84
43
ECC,Torah:ModeCommenta,OTL,AY BC&RL,Seow a ICC Job
Visit site
✟161,717.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
No UBS and Nestle-Aland and ESV and TNIV and 1978-1984 NIV and NASB and NRSV and NJB are not inspired by God or the Holy Ghost at all, they are deviationists that seek out the truth ONLY IN a matter of small bits and pieces

Like I am saying, it's more important to exclude portions of the Bible NOT GUIDED BY UBS and Nestle-Aland, and it's not self-obvious how and why. The division in Deuterocanon and Canon is not enough, we have to go also to the New Testament and look: Gospel of Luke is to large parts less value than Gospel of Matthew - the order in which the books are, is largely inspired by Gods ghost, just to name an easy example. Thereafter it's necessary to look at the importance of each book by S.t Paul and degrade most of them in terms of order of importance. I don't say there are extremely important parts in them. Everyone makes divisions anyway. That's why I said in this discussion that reading of the Bible has to happen in several steps, prayer is also needed - not as guidance - but for being prepared to meet with the Word of Good

I don't have faith enough to say that it would be possible for anyone to be directed by God when starting to exclude parts in the Bible or make divisions regarding importance of single books or large parts - but it's somehow necessary. NO-ONE reads trough, focused, the whole Bible

Different experts point out and explain diffferent parts of the Bible and parts of verses. UBS or Nestle-Aland is just ONE expert. ESV and TNIV and 1978-1984 NIV and NASB and NRSV and NJB follow UBS or Nestle-Aland like in slawery and NO like I pointed out with 1 John 4.8 they Don't make much note of patristic litterature

It's important to use the Latin names for the books of the Bible, to discover obvious things regarding the importance of the Books

The African Psalter was quoted by Aurelius Augustinus, who used Vetus Latin = Old Latin, because Vulgate was being made during his time, it was not completed yet, so therefore I regard Augustinus as an Apostolic father

PaladinValer, if YOU meant that those who are actually regarded as Apostolic Fathers, are important, You are wrong. So that doesn't give any extra value to the Nicene Creed.

The RCC has made some good choices also, in the 14th century they stopped an English translation which caused Jansenism + one more regimentation I don't know by heart (I read this in a book which is slightly sceptical because it doesn't acknowledge the inerrancy of the Gospel of John about the History of the RCC)

Look in Numbers 16.31-33 the earth swallowed deviationists
Everyone here believes in the Holy Bible. We simply have a more orthodox understanding of it than you.

The Holy Writ is inspired and inerrant in matters of faith, doctrine, salvation, and morals. No one (or I hope no one) is questioning that. What we question is your psuedohistorical idea of inerrancy and Bible translation.
 
Upvote 0

kiwimac

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian
Site Supporter
May 14, 2002
14,990
1,520
64
New Zealand
Visit site
✟620,160.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Utrecht
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Everyone here believes in the Holy Bible. We simply have a more orthodox understanding of it than you.

The Holy Writ is inspired and inerrant in matters of faith, doctrine, salvation, and morals. No one (or I hope no one) is questioning that. What we question is your psuedohistorical idea of inerrancy and Bible translation.

Indeed!
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
If you go back and read through Unix's personal opinions, it should be obvious to all but the most blind that he is typical of today's "Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism" gone to seed. Nothing is sure; all is open to doubt and interpretation. His opinions are what matter and everybody else is wrong. And yet his inescapable conclusion is that there is no such thing as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible. What happened to the overriding sovereign hand of God in history to give us His "book of the LORD"? It's not even taken into consideration.

"In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25

Will K
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
43
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No UBS and Nestle-Aland and ESV and TNIV and 1978-1984 NIV and NASB and NRSV and NJB are not inspired by God or the Holy Ghost at all, they are deviationists that seek out the truth ONLY IN a matter of small bits and pieces

Gee, your own Vatican Catholic Church likes their texts.

Is this a sock?

Like I am saying, it's more important to exclude portions of the Bible NOT GUIDED BY UBS and Nestle-Aland, and it's not self-obvious how and why. The division in Deuterocanon and Canon is not enough, we have to go also to the New Testament and look: Gospel of Luke is to large parts less value than Gospel of Matthew - the order in which the books are, is largely inspired by Gods ghost, just to name an easy example.

That is hogwash. You are suggesting the order in which things make up a whole are lesser of importance.

If the second 1 in 1 + 1 were swapped with the first 1, it would still equal 2.

Thereafter it's necessary to look at the importance of each book by S.t Paul and degrade most of them in terms of order of importance. I don't say there are extremely important parts in them. Everyone makes divisions anyway. That's why I said in this discussion that reading of the Bible has to happen in several steps, prayer is also needed - not as guidance - but for being prepared to meet with the Word of Good.

This has got to be the first time I've ever heard a Vatican Catholic speak such nonsense.

Any other VCs here want to illuminate?


The African Psalter was quoted by Aurelius Augustinus, who used Vetus Latin = Old Latin, because Vulgate was being made during his time, it was not completed yet, so therefore I regard Augustinus as an Apostolic father

The Apostolic Fathers were those who were illuminated by one of the Twelve (including St. Matthias who replaced Judas [who is obviously excluded here] as per Acts) or St. Paul. St. Augustine of Hippo was a fantastic scholar of the Holy Scriptures, but he was most definitely not an Apostolic Father.

PaladinValer, if YOU meant that those who are actually regarded as Apostolic Fathers, are important, You are wrong. So that doesn't give any extra value to the Nicene Creed.

What blather is this? What does this have to do with what you have me quoted to say?

Quite honestly, your whole post is so disconnected, I have no clue where to begin. At least quote what you are actually addressing.
 
Upvote 0

Unix

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2003
2,568
84
43
ECC,Torah:ModeCommenta,OTL,AY BC&RL,Seow a ICC Job
Visit site
✟161,717.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Well it's simply because You went on saying:
The new translations are based on the best material
I differ with You on that opinion. From that it seems to me that You are saying that NRSV - and such which You think should be regarded equal or higher in value - would have used patristic material to a great extent. They haven't. All that has happened resently in many translations, is that the finds in Qumran have finally been utilized. But I doubt the African Psalter has been utilized (extant in patristic quotes) - it's older than Septuagint/LXX and the Hebrew text we have of the Psalter - or do You know of ANY translations into English that have made used of the African Psalter? (Bible translators are not as brave as they might first seem, so hereby prooven they don't try to use the best material)

If you go back and read through Unix's personal opinions
I don't think You nor anyone else has gone trough my personal opinions. As if what I've written in the mid '00s I've changed my mind completely since

I'm not trying to part everyone to permanent separate views. I try to help people believe in the Bible and therefore seek out which translations should be used, I'm still not done. I might change my mind, and will change my mind as to which translation to be used to specific {that are to be in} in the Bible. The debates and new translations shouldn't be about parts of verses, it should be even though PaladinValer objects to that, about what parts are more important and what parts less important. In the New Testament Matthew is the most important and is to be read in context. Thereafter comes portions from St. Paul, James, Peter, Jude. Important to remember is that the Psalter was often quoted, and that many parts of the Deuterocanon are of equal value to the rest of both the New and the Old Testament
I think it would be good if older English style would be used, the Bible language shouldn't change twice a century I think.
To free my mind from clogging, right now I am equipped only with NKJV. But like I said I don't like the language changing. Sample PDF from Matthew 15.29b-16.18a
Challoner revision from 1749-1752 of the D-R translation /pdfs/1111331PDF.pdf
One example to pay attention to:
Code:
We know of no books that were excluded at Jabneh. In fact, Sirach, which was read and copied by Jews after the Jabneh period, [U]did not eventually become part of the standard Hebrew Bible[/U] (cf. Raymond Edward Brown, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, and Roland Edmund Murphy, The Jerome Biblical Commentary [Prentice-Hall, 1996, c. 1968], vol. 2, 522).
I think Sirach is not part of the Bible at all, + I skip reading quotations from Sirach

I think this thread is very interesting because I want to see what Bible translations I MIGHT use and I try to find opinions not always originating from myself, from the world. It is important to discuss which translation and WHAT EXACTLY in UBS and Nestle-Aland and the newest translations has been under influence of something from the history of the Catholic church
, it should be obvious to all but the most blind that he is typical of today's "Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism"

Today I've been reading a book on how an Anglican sees the Gospel of John. So I AM trying to get viewpoints myself. Right now I have not found find enough text I would to start sharing from internet or books that supports how I see things
gone to seed. Nothing is sure; all is open to doubt and interpretation. His opinions are what matter and everybody else is wrong. And yet his inescapable conclusion is that there is no such thing as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible. What happened to the overriding sovereign hand of God in history to give us His "book of the LORD"? It's not even taken into consideration.
 
Upvote 0

Unix

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2003
2,568
84
43
ECC,Torah:ModeCommenta,OTL,AY BC&RL,Seow a ICC Job
Visit site
✟161,717.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
I don't have work and have not worked for 1½ years now so I have energy to say something about Bible translations and importances. Forgive me for being a bit absent-minded when posting, I try to say what I really should say which would strenghten someone and, and not just where my thoughts are temporarely

Is this a sock?
No. You haven't said what about following UBS or Nestle-Aland like slawery, is actually good, Bible translators should make decions on other grounds but don't always (perhaps ease?)
the order in which the books are, is largely inspired by Gods ghost, just to name an easy example. Thereafter it's necessary to look at the importance of each book by S.t Paul and degrade most of them in terms of order of importance. I don't say there are extremely important parts in them. ... That's why I said in this discussion that reading of the Bible has to happen in several steps, prayer is also needed - not as guidance - but for being prepared to meet with the Word of Good
That is hogwash. You are suggesting the order in which things make up a whole are lesser of importance.
... Everyone makes divisions of what parts are important and which not to read, anyway

If the second 1 in 1 + 1 were swapped with the first 1, it would still equal 2.
Right

St. Augustine of Hippo was a fantastic scholar of the Holy Scriptures, but he was most definitely not an Apostolic Father.
Read letter 76 and see do You want to defend NRSV and Evangelical Standard Version

I recommend people who don't want to buy much, to at least buy this:
REB The New Testament Epistles: Early Christian Wisdom, Partially Abridged from the Text of the Revised English Bible (Classic Bible Series) [Paperback]
 
Upvote 0

Unix

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2003
2,568
84
43
ECC,Torah:ModeCommenta,OTL,AY BC&RL,Seow a ICC Job
Visit site
✟161,717.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
I am with what faith I have today, trying to consider topics, translations, sovereignity of God
I am also trying to see what would be a good translation of John 1.14
KJV:
  1. 14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search
What happened to the overriding sovereign hand of God in history to give us His "book of the LORD"? It's not even taken into consideration.
 
Upvote 0

brandplucked

Member
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2004
769
17
✟4,973.00
Faith
Christian
I am with what faith I have today, trying to consider topics, translations, sovereignity of God
I am also trying to see what would be a good translation of John 1.14
KJV:
  1. 14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search


Well, brother, it's right there in front of you and the one you quoted. What else do you need?

Will K
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
43
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Unix, your positions are clearly not that of the Vatican Catholic Church. Why do you bear an icon as if you are a member when you clearly are not in compliance, even liberal compliance, with their practices or beliefs?

You ideas are akin to those of Protestants, not Apostolic Christians. the Deuterocanon is Scripture; always was and always will be in orthodox Christian circles.
 
Upvote 0

kiwimac

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian
Site Supporter
May 14, 2002
14,990
1,520
64
New Zealand
Visit site
✟620,160.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Utrecht
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Unix, your positions are clearly not that of the Vatican Catholic Church. Why do you bear an icon as if you are a member when you clearly are not in compliance, even liberal compliance, with their practices or beliefs?

You ideas are akin to those of Protestants, not Apostolic Christians. the Deuterocanon is Scripture; always was and always will be in orthodox Christian circles.

You, friend, do not get to define who is or is not orthodox or in compliance.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
You, friend, do not get to define who is or is not orthodox or in compliance.
Unix claims to be Roman Catholic, yet his posts are significantly at odds with that. PV is perfectly entitled to query that.
 
Upvote 0