Why Everyone Needs An AR-15

[Petros2015]

don't think that it will matter in MD, because I suspect that the fallout from DC will be deadly.

You are probably right about that.

If I'm not mistaken they were working with the Feds, to do a drill for a nuclear strike, just today.

lol and they are probably right about that.

I don't foresee myself fighting Chinese troops anytime soon on the east coast, but that doesn't mean the lights will still be on at the end of the year. They probably will be, but they might not be. I have started restocking supplies recently in case of infrastructure disruption for whatever reason. Not going to go out of my way to try and survive a nuke attack though, and I doubt I could handle total infrastructure collapse - I'll leave that to a younger generation. As far as home defense goes... I'm sure an AR-15 could come in handy in some situations, but it's just not for me. I pride myself in being a creative problem solver, and if things have really hit the fan, I'm sure someone will be thoughtful enough to bring one to me eventually.

As far as China goes, I suspect we might get into a naval skirmish and lose a couple of carriers we weren't expecting to lose, along with the aura of invincibility they provide. Things will really spiral morale-wise from there if one of those hits the sea floor, and blood will be in the water, so to speak. There's also a likelihood of contested election results again in about 6 months along with all the chaos that brings and plenty of international (and maybe some national) players who could be seeing that as an opportunity to make a move if they were ready to take advantage of it (I would).

Anyway, just my thoughts

 

[HARK!]

that doesn't mean the lights will still be on at the end of the year

I doubt I could handle total infrastructure collapse

If the grid goes down due to a coordinated cyber attack, or an EMP; you can count on a total infrastructure collapse.

All of the experts that I have listened to, proclaim that the grid will be taken out before any major attack on the US; and that if that happens; that 6-9 out of 10 Americans will die within a year, mostly of starvation.

 

[SMTA]

Because some guns, like the AR-15, are more dangerous in the hands of civilians than others.

This is why the ban of high capacity magazines is included in assault weapon ban proposals. High capacity magazines for handguns would also be banned.

Sarah Brady advocated for stricter gun control legislation, not a ban on handguns. That was never her goal.

I really enjoy the 60 round magazines I have for the AR15s. Great deal for $39.95!

 

[JosephZ]

The fact of the matter is that they couldn't stop them with their rifles either.

Rifles were very effective at stopping the Moro fighters and were the primary weapon used by most US infantry soldiers at the time. Not all soldiers were issued handguns, and for those that were, it was to serve as a supplement to their primary weapon in most cases. The Moros were no match against the .30-caliber rifles and other more advanced weapons used by the US military, and many of the battles would be better classified as massacres as they were so one sided.

The .38 and .45 caliber handguns came into play during closed-quarters combat and clearing operations. Moro fighters would often hide among the bodies of fallen fighters and the innocent and lie in wait for US soldiers to get close enough for them to be attacked with bladed weapons. They also used a tactic called parang-sabil, which involved suicide attacks where the fighter would be armed with nothing more than sharp-edged weapons. These were the Moros that the .38 handguns had difficulty stopping.

 

[HARK!]

Rifles were very effective at stopping the Moro fighters and were the primary weapon used by most US infantry soldiers at the time. Not all soldiers were issued handguns, and for those that were, it was to serve as a supplement to their primary weapon in most cases. The Moros were no match against the .30-caliber rifles and other more advanced weapons used by the US military, and many of the battles would be better classified as massacres as they were so one sided.

The .38 and .45 caliber handguns came into play during closed-quarters combat and clearing operations. Moro fighters would often hide among the bodies of fallen fighters and the innocent and lie in wait for US soldiers to get close enough for them to be attacked with bladed weapons. They also used a tactic called parang-sabil, which involved suicide attacks where the fighter would be armed with nothing more than sharp-edged weapons. These were the Moros that the .38 handguns had difficulty stopping.

I've had historians tell me differently; and guess what; a quick Wiki search vindicates them.

After being hit with dozens of rifle and pistol bullets Moros continued to fight and kill US soldiers with their bladed weapons which led to the creation of the Colt 1911 .45 pistol.[66][67]

Moro Rebellion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now that we have that settled; can you guess which has more stopping power, a narrow light bullet that over-penetrates, or a wider heavier bullet of which it's kinetic energy is fully absorbed by the body?

Here's a hint: Ballistics

 

[Petros2015]

that 6-9 out of 10 Americans will die within a year, mostly of starvation.

Sounds about right in the event of total infra collapse. And that's not outside the realm of possibility.
Fortunately, I'm told that bullets are edible.

(hunting rifle for actual deer/game hunting would be very useful though; hunters will do well in that situation)

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yeah and calling the police is just calling someone to sin for you if that’s your position.

I was addressing that to the poster who implied Christians should not use violence. I figure people willing to arm themselves would not have a problem with such ( other than maybe guilt that they for some reason were unable to do it themselves.

 

[dogs4thewin]

No, it just means handguns are used more often.

Because these weapons are protected by the Constitution and citizens of the United States have a right to own guns with the exception of those which are deemed to be dangerous or unusual.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 US 570 - Supreme Court 2008 - Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

Here is the issue just because ARs can kill more at a time does not make them more dangerous. If I have an AR fully loaded and do not touch it for 20 years it does NOTHING same with a handgun, same with a knife ECT.

 

[JosephZ]

I've had historians tell me differently; and guess what; a quick Wiki search vindicates them.

After being hit with dozens of rifle and pistol bullets Moros continued to fight and kill US soldiers with their bladed weapons which led to the creation of the Colt 1911 .45 pistol.[66][67]

You may be able to find anecdotal evidence of Moros continuing to fight after being shot several times with a rifle, and a few of those accounts may very well be true, but they would be rare. Evidence from battles fought against the Moros shows that rifles and other more advanced weapons used by the US military were very effective in killing Moro fighters, where the kill rates were often greater than 50 to 1 (50 Moros to 1 US soldier) with some battles having ratios close to 100 to 1.

History tells us that it was the .38 caliber handguns that lacked stopping power. The need for a handgun with more stopping power was brought about by soldiers who were finding themselves in close combat situations with Moro fighters and those threatened by surprise suicide attacks.


At the time US troops were armed with either .30 caliber Krag or Springfield bolt-action rifles and .38 caliber double-action revolvers. While the .30 caliber rifles proved effective in stopping the attackers, the US troop’s handguns demonstrated an unnerving lack of stopping power, resulting in numerous reports of Moro warriors absorbing multiple pistol bullets while they continued to hack away at the Americans. Obviously the US troops’ morale suffered badly in this situation.


The standard-issue handgun at the time was the Colt .38-caliber revolver, but it performed poorly against the Moros, even when an American emptied his revolver into the warrior at point-blank range. Old .45 Colt Single Action Army revolvers pulled from storage were hurriedly issued to troops in the Philippines, but it was clear a more modern and powerful handgun was needed.


The Moros proved to be vicious fighters wielding spears and bolo knives who worked themselves up to such fervor that troops found the stopping power of the .45 LC was the only solution in hand-to-hand combat.


Bolo-wielding Moro warriors, often under the influence of opium, were seemingly invulnerable to the Colt revolver. News reports in the States told of charging natives withstanding five to six slugs before finally collapsing, but not before killing the soldier desperately trying to reload his revolver.

With news of the enemy enduring what should have been fatal hits, the inadequacies of the .38 caliber revolver finally surfaced. Army Ordnance quickly decided that the Army needed a new weapon. To solve the problem, the Army sought the help of American arms producers in a quest to produce a more powerful standard issue sidearm. To determine the force required, Ordnance officers experimented with various bullets by firing at slaughter house cattle and donated human cadavers. Results would show that a .45 caliber cartridge had the most effective stopping power.


Reports of juramentados absorbing a cylinder-full of .38 Long Colts and still beheading the shooter with a keris knife were disturbingly regular. In something of a panic, the Army reissued Single Action Army revolvers from reserve stocks, and purchased some M1902 .45 caliber double-action revolvers. The Ordnance Board established an evaluation committee led by Col. John T. Thompson (inventor of the Thompson submachinegun) and Col. Louis A. La Garde. They determined the need for a semi-automatic pistol that fired a .45-caliber bullet in order to reliably stop close-range combatants.


In 1899, a group of Moro tribesmen in the Philippines took umbrage toward a United States occupation force in the southern islands, thereby initiating what became known as the Moro Rebellion. The Moros were fierce fighters, with a reputation of resistance toward any outside rule. Officers in the U.S. force were armed with Colt Model 1892 revolvers chambered in .38 Long Colt, a cartridge that originated the blackpowder era. The load at the time featured a 150-grain lead round-nose bullet launched at 750 f.p.s. using smokeless powder. Muzzle energy was 201 ft.-lbs., about the same energy as a .380 ACP with a 90-grain bullet.

The Moros were reputed to tie themselves up with strips of vegetation from the jungles to prevent excessive bleeding and ingested locally made drugs to block the pain from wounds. Engagements involving the Colt double-action Model 1892 often resulted in the officer being killed or severely wounded by these motivated Moro juramentados. This prompted the War Department to launch the Thompson-LaGarde Tests of 1904. As expected, the rather grisly tests showed the .38 Long Colt significantly lacking in the power needed to stop a determined assailant.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And the next verse

”Yet, the Lord, the God of Israel, chose me from all the house of my father to be king over Israel forever. For He has chosen Judah to be a leader; and in the house of Judah, my father’s house, and among the sons of my father He took pleasure in me to make me king over all Israel.“
‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭28‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Not surprising that you only want to post the verse that appeared to be a condemnation of David’s actions and not include the following verse that shows God’s approval of David.

Perhaps you could explain how that passage negates what I said.

"Have mercy on me, O God,
according to Your steadfast love;
according to Your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
Against You, You only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in Your sight,
so that You may be justified in Your words
and blameless in Your judgment.
Behold I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being,
and You teach wisdom in the secret heart.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones that You have broken rejoice.
Hide Your face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and renew a right spirit within me.
Cast me not away from Your presence,
and take not Your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
and uphold me with a willing spirit."
-Psalm 51:1-12

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JosephZ]

Here is the issue just because ARs can kill more at a time does not make them more dangerous.

AR-15s are more dangerous than other guns. For example, an AR-15 fires a light bullet and has a muzzle velocity of 3,000+ feet per second which causes catastrophic damage to the human body upon impact, while most handgun bullets are heavier and travel at 1,600 feet per second or less resulting in less severe wounds.

AR-15s and similarly designed weapons are also more dangerous than other rifles for the reasons I mentioned here:

First and foremost, the AR-15 was designed to kill humans in the most efficient way possible. All of the following features of an AR-15 are there for that purpose: The AR-15 forward grip is designed so the shooter can release the magazine with their trigger finger without ever removing their hand from the grip. This allows someone with a little practice to exchange an empty magazine with a full one in around a second. Try doing that with a standard fixed-stock semi-automatic rifle. A forward grip and a detachable high-capacity magazine allow a shooter to literally drill bullets accurately into a group of people and reload without giving anyone the opportunity to disarm them. The high muzzle velocity of an AR-15 combined with a light bullet causes catastrophic damage when it enters a human body, and the AR-15's light weight and short length make it an excellent weapon for maneuvering in closed quarters.

If I have an AR fully loaded and do not touch it for 20 years it does NOTHING same with a handgun, same with a knife ECT.

I covered this way of thinking here:

This is true... Bad people are going to kill, but those who are intent on killing the most people in the quickest way possible and those who want to be on equal footing or have an advantage over law enforcement are going to choose an AR-15 or similar-type weapon. If Stephen Paddock didn't have access to AR-15s and other "assault-style" weapons with high-capacity magazines, would he have been able to fire 1,000 rounds in a matter of minutes, which killed 60 people and wounded at least 400 others? If Salvador Ramos had chosen another type of weapon, do you think he would have been able to kill 19 children and teachers and wound 17 others in Uvalde? Would two police officers that were killed a couple of weeks ago in New York still be alive if they weren't outgunned by a suspect armed with an AR-15? Would four law enforcement officers in North Carolina have been killed and four others wounded yesterday if the person they were trying to arrest had been armed with a handgun or another type of semi-automatic rifle without a high capacity magazine instead of an AR-15?

Weapons like the AR-15 shouldn't be marketed to the general public and have no place in our society. There are way too many people who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession such weapons.

 

[HARK!]

Sounds about right in the event of total infra collapse. And that's not outside the realm of possibility.
Fortunately, I'm told that bullets are edible.

(hunting rifle for actual deer/game hunting would be very useful though; hunters will do well in that situation)

Years ago I stocked up on bird shot; and I bought a pellet gun, and a slingshot, thinking the same thing. I figured that if there was no government, that I would shoot small birds, skin them, gut them, and boil them with rice.

I figured that it would supplement my rice with protein.

However now I'm better armed with information. According to the experts that I've been listening to, everyone will be competing for food; and there just isn't enough wildlife to feed all of us.

Because we live in such perilous times; and preparedness can be life saving; I'm going to allow any discussion of any facet of preparedness as on topic in this thread.

 

[dogs4thewin]

AR-15s are more dangerous than other guns. For example, an AR-15 fires a light bullet and has a muzzle velocity of 3,000+ feet per second which causes catastrophic damage to the human body upon impact, while most handgun bullets are heavier and travel at 1,600 feet per second or less resulting in less severe wounds.

AR-15s and similarly designed weapons are also more dangerous than other rifles for the reasons I mentioned here:




I covered this way of thinking here:

My point was that neither an AR nor a "regular" gun shoots on its own and civilians are not allowed to have fully auttmadtic guns that are able to shoot off more than one round at a time so therefore one pull of the trigger is still usually going to result in a single a round.

 

[HARK!]

You may be able to find anecdotal evidence of Moros continuing to fight after being shot several times with a rifle, and a few of those accounts may very well be true,

I provided evidence cited in the Wiki article that cited two published sources.

They determined the need for a semi-automatic pistol that fired a .45-caliber bullet in order to reliably stop close-range combatants.

Pistols are used when the enemy has advanced to a point where the rifle becomes cumbersome. The information that you have provided only adds to the evidence of the superior stopping power of the .45ACP.

 

[JosephZ]

My point was that neither an AR nor a "regular" gun shoots on its own and civilians are not allowed to have fully auttmadtic guns that are able to shoot off more than one round at a time so therefore one pull of the trigger is still usually going to result in a single a round.

In addition to the features I have already mentioned, with an AR-15, you have multiple points of contact; one hand on the pistol grip and one on the forward grip or the barrel shroud depending on the weapon, the shoulder, and the cheek. Below is a picture of yours truly showing this using a Remington R-4:

These four points of contact give the shooter more stability and allow them to fire an AR-15 quickly and with greater accuracy than a handgun. This accuracy increases the likelihood of a lethal outcome when humans are the target.

And to your point, you're correct; a gun doesn't shoot on its own, but there are way too many people in our society who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession of an AR-15 or similar type of weapon. This is why the AR-15 and its variants need to go the same way as fully automatic weapons.

 

[dogs4thewin]

In addition to the features I have already mentioned, with an AR-15, you have multiple points of contact; one hand on the pistol grip and one on the forward grip or the barrel shroud depending on the weapon, the shoulder, and the cheek. Below is a picture of yours truly showing this using a Remington R-4:

View attachment 346934

These four points of contact give the shooter more stability and allow them to fire an AR-15 quickly and with greater accuracy than a handgun. This accuracy increases the likelihood of a lethal outcome when humans are the target.

And to your point, you're correct; a gun doesn't shoot on its own, but there are way too many people in our society who are mentally ill, have criminal intent, have short tempers, are angry, and some who are just not mature enough to be in possession of an AR-15 or similar type of weapon. This is why the AR-15 and its variants need to go the same way as fully automatic weapons.

two issues number one if in fact as even you admit it is not the gun but the person then it woud seem to not punish everyone for the ctions of the few that misuse them. Number two there are MILLION of them out today it would not even begin to be reasonable to try to collect and ban them beyond that with all the people who do not trust the government I would say trying that would likely CAUSE more violence than it would prevent.

 

[JosephZ]

I provided evidence cited in the Wiki article that cited two published sources.

The two sources were Filipino blogs. One was called "Green Dragon Society" and the other "The Pinoy Warrior."

Here's what the Pinoy Warrior site contained:

"Even Americans. When they said "Halt!" the guns say halt too, but the Moro warriors kept going!

According to stories, during the American campaigns in Mindanao, it took a lot of bullets to stop a rushing Moro warrior and most of the time taking an enemy with him when he goes down. Panglima Hassan, as historians say was stopped on the 33rd bullet that hit him! Had he not been hit on the head, he would have charged on and on."

The Unstoppable Warriors

Centuries and centuries ago, all throughout the world, the Moro warrior has that fearsome reputation.

www.thepinoywarrior.com

That source didn't even mention rifles.

The second source "Green Dragon Society" was better, but still anecdotal.

During its campaign against the Moros, the U.S. Army adopted the Colt .45 Model 1911 semiautomatic pistol after American soldiers found that the .38 caliber Long Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers they had previously used were unable to stop the fierce Moro Warriors of the Southern Philippines. Eyewitness accounts describe Moros continuing to kill American soldiers with their Barongs and Kriss after receiving multiple rounds from the .38 pistols and .30 caliber rifles.

Realizing the Moro was tougher than any opponent previously encountered, the Army requested guns with more “knocking power” to physically shock and immobilize their opponents.

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro tribesman during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain. To prepare for battle, the Moro fighter would bind their limbs with leather, take narcotics, and use religious ritual to gain an altered state of consciousness, which turned them into almost unstoppable fighters. The Colt pistol round the U.S. soldiers used simply would not stop the Moro fanatic. The Krag rifles the U.S. soldiers carried were barely more effective.

Greendragon Society

For support of the above, the blogger linked to another website which contained the following:

In his annual report of June 1904, General Leonard Wood stated what he thought was obvious to anyone paying attention, ‘It is thought that the .45 caliber revolver [meaning Constabulary Model 1902] is the one that should be issued to troops throughout the Army…

Instances have repeatedly been reported during the past year where natives have been shot through and through several times with a .38 caliber revolver, and have come on, cutting up the unfortunate individual armed with it…The .45 caliber revolver stops a man on his tracks, usually knocking him down… “

A harrowing encounter with a Moro juramentado was vividly described in Victor Hurley’s “Swish of the Kris,” it says, “While they were tying these prisoners beneath the house, a Moro in a near-by field was plowing rice with a carabao.

They heard him shout as he leaped to attack with a barong. “Timbuck aco,” he was shouting; “shoot me.” He came with long bounding strides, headed straight for the waiting patrol.

Four of the soldiers opened fire on the advancing Moro in support of Lieutenant Ellsey. A stream of hot lead poured into his body, but the Moro never faltered.

He came nearer, slower now, but still on his feet. The barong was upraised as he headed for Lieutenant Ellsey. Ellsey fired his last shot, and the Moro still came.

Ten feet from the officer a Krag bullet thudded into the amuck’s spine. His legs gave away. As he fell, he hurled his barong before he died.

The patrol stripped the dead man and turned him over. Twelve bullet holes were in his body. Ellsey had escaped decapitation by only ten feet.”

The Juramentados and the Development of the Colt .45 caliber Model 1911 - FMA Pulse

Among the most repeated stories within Filipino martial arts circles is how the fanatical Muslim warriors of Mindanao affected the development of the Colt .45 …

fmapulse.com

The only mention of a rifle in the linked article is when one was used to stop a Moro attacker.

Pistols are used when the enemy has advanced to a point where the rifle becomes cumbersome. The information that you have provided only adds to the evidence of the superior stopping power of the .45ACP.

The information I gave only showed that the .45ACP was superior to the .38 revolvers that were being used prior to its introduction. The Browning website that I linked to stated that the .30 caliber rifle proved itself to be effective in stopping the Moro fighters.

 

[Petros2015]

I'm going to allow any discussion of any facet of preparedness as on topic in this thread.

Check these guys out, while not directly food or defense related they are interesting. I'm building a frame for one of their fresnel lenses in the background of our conversation. Most power generation starts with heat - even nuke reactors, all they are is doing is using the heat generated to boil water, turn it to steam and drive turbines. Boiling water is also useful just for making it safe as well. But the lens I have should have these stats on a sunny day... I figured it was better to have one than not

* SIZE-----------------21H X 21W
* POWER EST.-----------7.8
* BEAM-----------------SPOT
* BEAM SIZE MAX POWER--.4 INCH (2.7" OUTER AREA 900 F)
* FOCAL LENGTH---------25 INCHES
* WEIGHT --------------5 LBS.
* MAX TEMP. CLIMB------1690 F IR THERMOMETER
* MAX COLLECTION-------1850F MATERIAL EST...........
* MATERIALS TESTED
* WATER------------12oz. BOILS 102 sec.
* WOOD-------------FLAME .1 SEC.
* ZINC-------------MELTS .5OZ 14 GRAMS - 17 SEC. * 3.1 GRAMS - 11 SEC.
* GLASS------------MELTS 1" X 1/4" BROWN GLASS 23 SEC.
* CONCRETE---------GLOW 21 SEC. EXPOSURE, MELT 39 SEC.

BUY A HUGE FRESNEL LENS GREEN POWER SCIENCE WOULD BE NICE ON THE DISCOVERY NETWORK SOLAR STIRLING ENGINES FRESNEL LENS PARABOLIC MIRROR

Solar Fresnel, Sun Power, Alternative Energy, generator

greenpowerscience.com

The melting point of aluminum is only 1220F... oh look! Now I've got a Forge...

 

[Aviel]

BEST BEGINNER HOME DEFENSE HANDGUNS​

Not sure what pistol to get for your first gun or for home defense?

Best Overall 9mm Pistol – Glock 19, Gen 5​

Best Trigger – Walther PD​

​

Runner-Up Beginner Handgun – Smith & Wesson M&P9 M2.0​

Easiest to Rack & Load – Smith & Wesson M&P Shield EZ​

Best Higher-End Beginner Handgun – HK VP9​

 

[JosephZ]

number one if in fact as even you admit it is not the gun but the person then it woud seem to not punish everyone for the ctions of the few that misuse them.

Fully automatic weapons don't fire themselves either, should we make them legal for everyone again and market them to the public in the same way as AR-15s?

Number two there are MILLION of them out today it would not even begin to be reasonable to try to collect and ban them beyond that with all the people who do not trust the government I would say trying that would likely CAUSE more violence than it would prevent.

There are more like tens of millions out there, and there are no proposals to collect them from those who legally own them. Below is the wording on the most recent legislation to ban assault-style weapons:

"It shall be unlawful for a person to import, sell, manufacture, transfer, or possess, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, a semiautomatic assault weapon. [This] shall not apply to the possession, sale, or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of enactment of the Assault Weapons Ban of 2023."