He who believes and is baptised will be saved but he who does not believe will be condemned

[mikeforjesus]

If you don’t get baptized you can’t be fully united to God to experience the full unity with God from the gift of the Holy Spirit or rather a gift of God (given from being born of water which could be particularly from the Holy Spirit even though one has the Holy Spirit without it) given at baptism as the Holy Spirit was mentioned as given to gentiles without baptism given in baptism and not just the Holy Spirit you have from believing that is proven to dwell in people by faith as it leads them to have understanding to keep His commandments though maybe not to be fully united to God.

We know people who are not baptised still have ability to do good and avoid sins and can strive to follow all that the bible says I believe they can live holy lives which you can’t without the Spirit of God but Jesus says you need to be born of water also. The goal of Christianity is not just to be holy which you can’t without the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit leads one to do works but to also be born again not only of the Spirit to believe and be holy but of the water to also take away one sins and wash away all sins in this life to make one completely washed inside and united with God now. Paul said no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit and evidence of the Holy Spirit in one life is they are led by the Holy Spirit. They have the ability to be righteous and they bear fruit but they are not fully united to God to be currently alive and to be made fully alive upon death for if one is not free and is punished he is not yet made fully alive though he has life as he is not fully separated from God

Jesus says he who believes in Him though he may die yet will he live by which some take to mean if you are spiritually dead on earth if you believe you can be made alive now it can also refer to when you die you can be made fully alive which you are not yet fully united to God to experience full life so you are in that sense dead that is not yet raised to be with Jesus but you are not dead to be cut off from eternal life forever

Romans 8:9-22
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.


The creation will be delivered from corruption because there will no longer be sin in heaven among the children of God


God created the creation to glorify Him which it does not do now that is why He says it will be delivered not that all would be saved. But all creation will serve the purposes of the creator that it was intended to serve and earth was created initially as a paradise for the children of God.It just means everything that was created for the sake of God intention will be fullfilling His intention and He intends for a new earth and heaven for the those who were redeemed or will be redeemed

John 14:19-21
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

 

[mikeforjesus]

I believe one receives the Holy Spirit upon believing as the gentiles did in the book of acts but baptism is still essential to be washed or regenerated to be united to God not just to stop sinning and obey the leading of the Spirit.

 

[Arc F1]

I believe one receives the Holy Spirit upon believing as the gentiles did in the book of acts but baptism is still essential to be washed or regenerated to be united to God not just to stop sinning and obey the leading of the Spirit.

There is nothing like the feeling of being baptized. I will never forget that day.

 

[Dan Perez]

There is nothing like the feeling of being baptized. I will never forget that day.

Hi and in 1 Cor 10:2 and the Jews were crossing the RED SEA and were all BAPTIZED unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA so how does that BAPTISM work out ?

The only ones who were WATER BAPTIZED were the Egyptians who tried to follow then ews across the Red Sea .
dan p

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

The verse you quoted in your title says only that those who do not believe will be condemned. Baptism saves, but it doesn't follow from that, that not to be baptized condemns.

Also, how can you have the Holy Spirit but not be fully united to God since God cannot be divided?

If you don’t get baptized you can’t be fully united to God to experience the full unity with God from the gift of the Holy Spirit or rather a gift of God (given from being born of water which could be particularly from the Holy Spirit even though one has the Holy Spirit without it) given at baptism as the Holy Spirit was mentioned as given to gentiles without baptism given in baptism and not just the Holy Spirit you have from believing that is proven to dwell in people by faith as it leads them to have understanding to keep His commandments though maybe not to be fully united to God.

We know people who are not baptised still have ability to do good and avoid sins and can strive to follow all that the bible says I believe they can live holy lives which you can’t without the Spirit of God but Jesus says you need to be born of water also. The goal of Christianity is not just to be holy which you can’t without the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit leads one to do works but to also be born again not only of the Spirit to believe and be holy but of the water to also take away one sins and wash away all sins in this life to make one completely washed inside and united with God now. Paul said no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit and evidence of the Holy Spirit in one life is they are led by the Holy Spirit. They have the ability to be righteous and they bear fruit but they are not fully united to God to be currently alive and to be made fully alive upon death for if one is not free and is punished he is not yet made fully alive though he has life as he is not fully separated from God

Jesus says he who believes in Him though he may die yet will he live by which some take to mean if you are spiritually dead on earth if you believe you can be made alive now it can also refer to when you die you can be made fully alive which you are not yet fully united to God to experience full life so you are in that sense dead that is not yet raised to be with Jesus but you are not dead to be cut off from eternal life forever

Romans 8:9-22
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.


The creation will be delivered from corruption because there will no longer be sin in heaven among the children of God


God created the creation to glorify Him which it does not do now that is why He says it will be delivered not that all would be saved. But all creation will serve the purposes of the creator that it was intended to serve and earth was created initially as a paradise for the children of God.It just means everything that was created for the sake of God intention will be fullfilling His intention and He intends for a new earth and heaven for the those who were redeemed or will be redeemed

John 14:19-21
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

 

[mikeforjesus]

How can you say baptism saves but it does not follow from that if you are not baptized you are not saved that is the conclusion if you believe baptism saves that if you did not seek to do it while you had opportunity you can not be saved one may be won over to come to Christ because of care of others to show God is just people should come anyway but God accepts to know He is just not to let others perish who were not told truth before so they didn’t think it is absolutely important so didn’t plan to and they are not required to now in truth as God never required it of anyone who was not taught the truth before with authority and signs while people did not have them to experience it it only being required possibly in early church possibly because of signs that He wanted to witness to the strength of His power in those only obey but does not require it if there are no signs and only when He wants there to be signs or for those who he ever chooses or gives the gift of knowledge and signs to to know the truth to teach it again who have sign

so it was never required of those that God did not instruct them to know it is required to know absolute truth as early church did as God is just and does not require it


I believe the Holy Spirit is given to all believers I believe you need baptism to be saved upon death that is what I mean by united to God you can have Spirit in mind but not fullness to indwell in the soul to change and transform it

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Because that's what the verse you quoted says.

How can you say baptism saves but it does not follow from that if you are not baptized you are not saved that is the conclusion if you believe baptism saves that if you did not seek to do it while you had opportunity you can not be saved one may be won over to come to Christ because of care of others to show God is just people should come anyway but God accepts to know He is just not to let others perish who were not told truth before so they didn’t think it is absolutely important so didn’t plan to and they are not required to now in truth as God never required it of anyone who was not taught the truth before with authority and signs while people did not have them to experience it so it was never required of those that God did not instruct them to know it is required to know absolute truth as early church did as God is just and does not require it


I believe the Holy Spirit is given to all believers I believe you need baptism to be saved upon death that is what I mean by united to God you can have Spirit but not fullness to indwell in the soul to change and transform it

 

[mikeforjesus]

Yes but some interpret they are not condemned only if they would have sought to be baptized if there was opportunity but I don’t think that is true as they may not have been taught it’s important or to know what is absolutely important they may wish to if they knew it’s absolute importance they should wish to come anyway but they may be hesitant to if they feel they are being forced that they are not cared for to trust God as fair that He loves them to care for them if they are not sure to trust one beliefs about Christianity if it is not fair people don’t support it fair to not show care for them

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's not the water that is important. It is the heart attitude that one has when being baptised. If someone is baptised because it is the thing to do in that church, then that is not good enough and carries no weight with God. He is not into vain rituals that are performed just for the sake of it. When the Holy Spirit fell on the household of Cornelius it was before they got baptised, They were so overjoyed at receiving the Holy Spirit they wanted to get baptised to seal the deal! The same with the Ethiopian eunuch. Philip didn't mention baptism as a requirement. It was the eunuch himself who suggested it because he knew it was the next step to cement his commitment to Christ.

Threatening people with baptism or condemnation is misleading and forces people into baptism with the wrong heart attitude. One doesn't get baptised out of fear. One gets baptised because they love the Lord and want to show their commitment to Him to the community and the world around him or her.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

If a person seeks to be baptized but dies first, that baptism is credited to him because he has faith.

Yes but some interpret they are not condemned only if they would have sought to be baptized if there was opportunity but I don’t think that is true as they may not have been taught it’s important or to know what is absolutely important they may wish to if they knew it’s absolute importance they should wish to come anyway but they may be hesitant to if they feel they are being forced that they are not cared for to trust God as fair that He loves them to care for them if they are not sure to trust one beliefs about Christianity if it is not fair people don’t support it fair to not show care for them

 

[mikeforjesus]

Yes but that shows where we disagree I do not believe one needs to be seeking to be baptised if one dies after he repented and accepted Jesus if he is not sure whether he needs baptism if he was convinced maybe he does not need it I believe he would be saved one would obviously desire to do so if one definitely knew it was required but a person may not know for sure what is required and we do not know for sure whether baptism is required or not so if one turns to Jesus at anytime one can still be saved

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Are you saying that people are baptized after death?

Yes but that shows where we disagree I do not believe one needs to be seeking to be baptised if one dies after he repented and accepted Jesus if he is not sure whether he needs baptism if he was convinced maybe he does not need it

 

[mikeforjesus]

I do believe yes that there could be baptism after death for those that never were certain of it’s necessity to fully unite soul to God after person is chastised it could be baptism or something like baptism to grant the grace of the indwelling presence

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

It's possible I suppose.

I do believe yes that there could be baptism after death for those that did not know it’s necessity to fully unite soul to God after person is chastised

 

[mikeforjesus]

Or rather baptism is the means of full communion now but later there will be another means to fully unite the soul to God after it is temporarily punished for not seeking unity with God earlier through the means He said but not hell as person did still repent only to unite soul to God

 

[mikeforjesus]

It's not the water that is important. It is the heart attitude that one has when being baptised. If someone is baptised because it is the thing to do in that church, then that is not good enough and carries no weight with God. He is not into vain rituals that are performed just for the sake of it. When the Holy Spirit fell on the household of Cornelius it was before they got baptised, They were so overjoyed at receiving the Holy Spirit they wanted to get baptised to seal the deal! The same with the Ethiopian eunuch. Philip didn't mention baptism as a requirement. It was the eunuch himself who suggested it because he knew it was the next step to cement his commitment to Christ.

Threatening people with baptism or condemnation is misleading and forces people into baptism with the wrong heart attitude. One doesn't get baptised out of fear. One gets baptised because they love the Lord and want to show their commitment to Him to the community and the world around him or her.

I did believe it is more useful not to threaten people with damnation with no baptism as though we know but I think now that that does not mean we should not teach baptism as long as we are not judging we don’t know but leave judgement to God because people can say what authority are you to know for sure if it is not required so if I can’t prove for sure I should not. I wasn’t sure if you meant baptism is not required or not as you said shouldn’t threaten but also it is person choice out of love to be commited to do but if it is not stressed baptism and also communion they may delay to do if it is required and we don’t know if it is safe

 

[Doug Brents]

The verse you quoted in your title says only that those who do not believe will be condemned. Baptism saves, but it doesn't follow from that, that not to be baptized condemns.

Also, how can you have the Holy Spirit but not be fully united to God since God cannot be divided?

We are already condemned, so not being baptized leaves you in that condemned state.

 

[anetazo]

First Corinthians chapter 2. You need holy spirit to guide you on right path. Lot of people have spirit of stupor. Gospel of Luke, few make it through narrow gate. Many will go through wide gate to sheol. Romans chapter 8, Gods Elect have holy spirit. They are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. Those with free will have spirit of slumber. Read Isaiah chapter 6, Matthew chapter 13, and romans chapter 11.

 

[mikeforjesus]

It is true but the choice the reason few make it through the narrow gate is because they never make a decision to follow Christ to decide to walk in all that they have learned to know they must be doing but all who have accepted Christ truly would have followed all that they know for a fact is right so they would be saved for bible says clearly God is not willing for any to perish and whoever believes is saved which means is sincere to obey all that can be known for a fact must do.

 

[Dan Perez]

I believe one receives the Holy Spirit upon believing as the gentiles did in the book of acts but baptism is still essential to be washed or regenerated to be united to God not just to stop sinning and obey the leading of the Spirit.

So , what are your thoughts of MARK 16:15 ---18 ?

#1 Go ye into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every n creature ?

#2 H n that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved , but HE that BELIEVETH NOT shall be damned ?

#3 And these SIGNS shall follow them that believe , they shall CAST OUT Devils , speak in NEW TONGUES , Take up SERPENTS , and no HURT if n they drink any DEADLY THING , and Lay Hands on the sick and they shall recover ?

If Mark wrote these passage for TODAY , I have yet to see them OR has anyone seen them ?

In 1 Cor 10:1 and 2 , Israel was BAPTIZED UNTO Moses , the CLOUD and unto the SEA , who does believing in WATER BAPTISM explain it ?

Does anyone exlain it to us ??

dan p