Climate threats = FIRES: Famine, Instability, Refugees, Extinctions, Super-storms

eclipsenow

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Hi all,
At the moment I'm putting out a call out for any good papers you know of that summarise the "I" for Instability.

INSTABILITY sums up climate impacts on economic prosperity and lifestyles. Some have modelled significant economic cuts to our lifestyles. Other studies confirm increased interpersonal conflicts as temperatures increase. Both of these can exacerbate into increased violent crime, especially as other sources of tension increase from social media echo chambers and the increase in violent political protests etc.

There's also the phrase "Threat Multiplier" that states:-

“Threat multiplier” has become a widely used term by scholars and practitioners to describe climate change implications for security in both the policy realm and climate-security literature. The term was coined in 2007 by the CNA (Center for Naval Analyses) Military Advisory Board under the leadership of Sherri Goodman. It captures how climate change effects interact with and have the potential to exacerbate pre-existing threats and other drivers of instability to contribute to security risks. The concept has been characterized as “definitional” in having “set a baseline for how to talk about the issue” and having shaped “the way in which people studying climate policy think about risks.” Its use has also been described as “one of the most prominent ways in which the security implications of climate change have been understood.”​


So I'm interested in domestic politics and economics and lifestyle changes - through to the very worst case scenarios.

THE VERY WORST of the WORST CASE SCENARIOS!
(Though NOT what this whole thread should be about!)

This is crazy stuff.
Scientific - backed by peer-reviewed papers - but still crazy.
It's not the sort of stuff you talk about at polite dinner parties.

The Pentagon calls climate change a "Threat Multiplier". Climate change may just provoke already very stressed nations highly suspicious of each other - like Russia Vs NATO or China vs the USA - into conflict - and that could quickly escalate into full scale nuclear war.

If that happens, the latest science on it is NOT good.

Climate science studying Australia's 2019 mega-fires casts new light on how 'black carbon' in soot behaves up in the stratosphere. The sun's rays keep it floating around like a hot air balloon. This prolongs the nuclear winter - making it so, so much worse.

Here's the crazy bit - the bit you don't talk about at parties.

The northern hemisphere may just starve back to 1% of their original population! (Xia et al, August 2022).
The following short Youtube is based on the latest papers. (Click under the youtube for the papers).
It's truly horrific - the worst thing on my blog.


Over 5 billion may starve.
In the worst case scenario - only 1% of the Northern Hemisphere survives. Think about that! The USA's 330 million down to 3.3 million - if that. They go from being a super-power to half the size of Sydney - Australia! Check the map. Even YELLOW is horrific - meaning your government has had to decide which of your 25% to 50% of your population had to starve and who survives! No country would be the same after something like that - not for generations. Light GREEN is horrific - 1% to 25% - up to a quarter of your population starving.

But orange and brown? Forget it. Gone.

1713311190677.png




Warmer oceans down south help shield Australia and Argentina somewhat. After reading a few of these papers and thinking it through with my social sciences background - my guess is that after the skies cleared 5 to 10 years later, Australia and Argentina would probably emerge as the new super-powers in a catastrophically reduced world. But that's just an introduction to the very worst case scenario.

I is for Instability.​

I'm still interested in the smaller stuff - like increased prices, reduced lifestyles, inflamed politics, etc.
Do you have good references for papers like that - or a particular area that you care about?

(This post edited after some negative feedback in the thread below.)
 
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AlexB23

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Hi all,
At the moment I'm putting out a call out for any good papers you know of that summarise the "I" for Instability.

INSTABILITY sums up climate impacts on economic prosperity and lifestyles including mundane things like luxury goods (chocolate, coffee) through to major economic impacts, radicalisation of domestic politics, and the fact that climate change may just spark regional wars. I'm well aware of the data that supports the argument that climate change was the last straw that broke the back of Syrian stability. Or to mix metaphors - climate change lit the spark that was Syria after all the Iraqi refugees fled the second Gulf War. As the Pentagon says - climate change is a "Threat Multiplier".

The irony is if any of these wars gets truly out of hand and escalates into Full Scale Nuclear Warfare - "I" may prove that the worst impact of climate change is that it unleashes the worst of human behaviour. For the latest science seems to indicate that a Full Scale Nuclear War would throw us into a new kind of climate emergency. In this post-apocalypse world, a nuclear winter would darken the skies, shut down agriculture in most of the world and starve the northern hemisphere back to 1% of its population! Over 5 billion may starve. It would see the rise of Australia and Argentina a super-powers in this shattered world.
Here is a paper from 2015 that describes the instability caused by climate change: Climate change, conflict and health


I can summarize it, if you want me to:

The journal article "Climate change, conflict and health", published in 2015, discusses the relationship between climate change, conflict, and health, highlighting the significant but neglected impact of climate-related conflicts on health outcomes. Although climate change's direct effect on health is relatively small, its indirect consequences, such as pressure on health determinants and the risk of violent conflict, pose a considerable challenge to global health.

Analysts suggest that climate change functions as a 'risk multiplier', escalating the chances of conflict over scarce resources. Reduced availability of essential resources and sociopolitical changes stemming from climate change can create conditions that enhance conflict risk. Weak governance and civil institutions exacerbate these risks. Moreover, climate change can influence how conflicts are fought and their duration, contributing to prolonged instability.

Despite the significance of this issue, the public health literature pays scant attention to climate change-related conflicts. The authors encourage greater engagement from the public health sector in addressing this growing concern. Drawing on contemporary examples, the paper highlights the role of climate change in exacerbating tensions and catalyzing conflicts in various regions, including Darfur, Syria, and Mali.

To minimize the risk of climate change-associated conflict, the authors advocate for strong climate change mitigation efforts combined with effective adaptation strategies. Emphasizing the connection between climate change, population health, and conflict can motivate health workers to play a more influential role in promoting international cooperation and energy transition. Framing climate change as a health issue fosters a collaborative approach to combating shared challenges, ultimately improving prospects for a secure and healthy future.
 
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Estrid

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Hi all,
At the moment I'm putting out a call out for any good papers you know of that summarise the "I" for Instability.

INSTABILITY sums up climate impacts on economic prosperity and lifestyles including mundane things like luxury goods (chocolate, coffee) through to major economic impacts, radicalisation of domestic politics, and the fact that climate change may just spark regional wars. I'm well aware of the data that supports the argument that climate change was the last straw that broke the back of Syrian stability. Or to mix metaphors - climate change lit the spark that was Syria after all the Iraqi refugees fled the second Gulf War. As the Pentagon says - climate change is a "Threat Multiplier".

The irony is if any of these wars gets truly out of hand and escalates into Full Scale Nuclear Warfare - "I" may prove that the worst impact of climate change is that it unleashes the worst of human behaviour. For the latest science seems to indicate that a Full Scale Nuclear War would throw us into a new kind of climate emergency. In this post-apocalypse world, a nuclear winter would darken the skies, shut down agriculture in most of the world and starve the northern hemisphere back to 1% of its population! Over 5 billion may starve. It would see the rise of Australia and Argentina a super-powers in this shattered world.
Any idea why agw doubters just roll their
eyes at this sort of thing?
 
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AlexB23

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Any idea why agw doubters just roll their
eyes at this sort of thing?
I have no idea why people doubt anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in 2024, when we have the data to show that the Earth is warming up rapidly. It is probably financial (oil), personal experiences, and a lack of proper science education in schools that contribute to disbelief.
 
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Estrid

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I have no idea why people doubt anthropogenic global warming (AGW) in 2024, when we have the data to show that the Earth is warming up rapidly. It is probably financial (oil), personal experiences, and a lack of proper science education in schools that contribute to disbelief.
You don't know why scanning a screed and
finding such as Full Scale Nuclear War
( capitalized like it's proper nouns), chocolate
shortage, apocalse, and Oz becomes a Superpower,
and hearing all the nutty things people come
up with tp " fight climate change" just might
result in some people figuring the agw alarmists
are a bunch of meat heads?
 
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AlexB23

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You don't know why scanning a screed and
finding such as Full Scale Nuclear War
( capitalized like it's proper nouns), chocolate
shortage, apocalse, and Oz becomes a Superpower,
and hearing all the nutty things people come
up with tp " fight climate change" just might
result in some people figuring the agw alarmists
are a bunch of meat heads?
Yeah, maybe the OP was a little overkill, but most AGW folks are not alarmists, but are just concerned for the state of the world.
 
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Estrid

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Yeah, maybe the OP was a little overkill, but most AGW folks are not alarmists, but are just concerned for the state of the world.
"Maybe a little".

I don't think you understand what im saying.
 
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eclipsenow

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Full Scale Nuclear War
Sure it's a term of normal words, not proper nouns.

But after reading a paper on the latest climate modelling for a nuclear winter - I personally think it deserves proper noun status.
Either that or just screaming the thing in full caps - like "FULL SCALE NUCLEAR WAR!" every time we mention it.

The chocolate and coffee remarks were just highlighting that many first world commentators think a price rise in these luxury goods signifies true hardship. I was kind of ironically juxtaposing them against the real horror.

What we might do to ourselves.

Have you read the climate science modelling a nuclear winter?

For the record - I am not a 'climate doomer.' Indeed - there's even evidence that big oil are sponsoring climate doomers because when someone truly believes its the end of the world and all hopeless - they give up activism! That's not me. See my page on doomers at the link above - where I explain that a suicide on a doomer forum I was on decades ago changed the rest of my life. I'm an optimist!

BUT if we push ALL the big red buttons at once?

Here's my layman's guide to TEOTWAWKI - a paragraph based on the latest science.

Australia's 2019 mega-fire smoke provided more certainty: There has been a bit of a complicated history modelling nuclear-winter. Ironically, they have new confidence in modelling nuclear winter because by studying global warming. Recent studies of the climate-disaster 2019 Australian mega-fires gave them more data on smoke. The black carbon in smoke behaves a bit like a hot air balloon if it gets high enough from a big enough initial fire. The sun heats it and lifts it up above the rain clouds into the stratosphere and keeps it there, dancing about above the rain for up to a decade!​

The following map is from Robock and Xia (June 2023).

You can call them "meatheads" if you want to - but that's your choice.

1713140505675.png



More here

 
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AV1611VET

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... just might result in some people figuring the agw alarmists are a bunch of meat heads?

I wouldn't call them that.

I prefer "tree hugger," myself.

But the fact of the matter is, maybe we're getting tired of science crying WOLF all the time and expecting us to come running?
 
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AV1611VET

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The irony is if any of these wars gets truly out of hand and escalates into Full Scale Nuclear Warfare -

Do you think maybe the Prince of Peace has anything to say about all this?
 
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rambot

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Sure it's a term of normal words, not proper nouns.

But after reading a paper on the latest climate modelling for a nuclear winter - I personally think it deserves proper noun status.
Either that or just screaming the thing in full caps - like "FULL SCALE NUCLEAR WAR!" every time we mention it.

The chocolate and coffee remarks were just highlighting that many first world commentators think a price rise in these luxury goods signifies true hardship. I was kind of ironically juxtaposing them against the real horror.

What we might do to ourselves.

Have you read the climate science modelling a nuclear winter?

For the record - I am not a 'climate doomer.' Indeed - there's even evidence that big oil are sponsoring climate doomers because when someone truly believes its the end of the world and all hopeless - they give up activism! That's not me. See my page on doomers at the link above - where I explain that a suicide on a doomer forum I was on decades ago changed the rest of my life. I'm an optimist!

BUT if we push ALL the big red buttons at once?

Here's my layman's guide to TEOTWAWKI - a paragraph based on the latest science.

Australia's 2019 mega-fire smoke provided more certainty: There has been a bit of a complicated history modelling nuclear-winter. Ironically, they have new confidence in modelling nuclear winter because by studying global warming. Recent studies of the climate-disaster 2019 Australian mega-fires gave them more data on smoke. The black carbon in smoke behaves a bit like a hot air balloon if it gets high enough from a big enough initial fire. The sun heats it and lifts it up above the rain clouds into the stratosphere and keeps it there, dancing about above the rain for up to a decade!​

The following map is from Robock and Xia (June 2023).

You can call them "meatheads" if you want to - but that's your choice.

View attachment 345918


More here

I REALLY don't think that chart is as convincing of anything useful as you'd think. The chart title is pretty....dubious.
 
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eclipsenow

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I REALLY don't think that chart is as convincing of anything useful as you'd think. The chart title is pretty....dubious.
Then read the paper. I've linked to it here - there's a youtube animation of the paper - but the science of the paper results in the map. And the map title just sums up the data.

 
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Estrid

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Sure it's a term of normal words, not proper nouns.

But after reading a paper on the latest climate modelling for a nuclear winter - I personally think it deserves proper noun status.
Either that or just screaming the thing in full caps - like "FULL SCALE NUCLEAR WAR!" every time we mention it.

The chocolate and coffee remarks were just highlighting that many first world commentators think a price rise in these luxury goods signifies true hardship. I was kind of ironically juxtaposing them against the real horror.

What we might do to ourselves.

Have you read the climate science modelling a nuclear winter?

For the record - I am not a 'climate doomer.' Indeed - there's even evidence that big oil are sponsoring climate doomers because when someone truly believes its the end of the world and all hopeless - they give up activism! That's not me. See my page on doomers at the link above - where I explain that a suicide on a doomer forum I was on decades ago changed the rest of my life. I'm an optimist!

BUT if we push ALL the big red buttons at once?

Here's my layman's guide to TEOTWAWKI - a paragraph based on the latest science.

Australia's 2019 mega-fire smoke provided more certainty: There has been a bit of a complicated history modelling nuclear-winter. Ironically, they have new confidence in modelling nuclear winter because by studying global warming. Recent studies of the climate-disaster 2019 Australian mega-fires gave them more data on smoke. The black carbon in smoke behaves a bit like a hot air balloon if it gets high enough from a big enough initial fire. The sun heats it and lifts it up above the rain clouds into the stratosphere and keeps it there, dancing about above the rain for up to a decade!​

The following map is from Robock and Xia (June 2023).

You can call them "meatheads" if you want to - but that's your choice.

View attachment 345918


More here

To honour the request avoid a debate,
I will just reiterate mention of the negative
effect of using such as the extreme language,
multicolor/bold/underlined/italics etc above
employed.

And that whoever you think you need to address
with your post isn't me. So plz desist.
 
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eclipsenow

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And that whoever you think you need to address
with your post isn't me. So plz desist.

Nice - duck and run!
Also - I didn't request we end a 'debate' - that was another commenter.
Also - it's not a debate to just stick your nose in and shout 'meatheads'.
It's just insulting - but sadly reveals how uninformed you are about this subject.

Here is what I propose. Don't call AGW activists 'meatheads' because we might sometimes discuss some very real science that makes you uncomfortable. Do you even remember the Pentagon's term for climate change? They call it a "Threat multiplier". EG: Crop failures or water shortages to lead to local conflicts that escalate out of hand. To this.

Here you are Estrid - your 'meatheads'.


Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far​

Alan Robock, Lili Xia, Cheryl S. Harrison, Joshua Coupe, Owen B. Toon, and Charles G. Bardeen​
Abstract​
The direct effects of nuclear war would be horrific, with blasts, fires, and radiation killing and injuring many people. But in 1983, United States and Soviet Union scientists showed that a nuclear war could also produce a nuclear winter, with catastrophic consequences for global food supplies for people far removed from the conflict. Smoke from fires ignited by nuclear weapons exploded on cities and industrial targets would block out sunlight, causing dark, cold, and dry surface conditions, producing a nuclear winter, with surface temperatures below freezing even in summer for years. Nuclear winter theory helped to end the nuclear arms race in the 1980s and helped to produce the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in 2017, for which the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons received the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize. Because awareness of nuclear winter is now widespread, nuclear nations have so far not used nuclear weapons. But the mere existence of nuclear weapons means that they can be used, by unstable leaders, accidently from technical malfunctions, such as in computers and sensors, due to human error, or by terrorists. Because they cannot be used without the danger of escalation (resulting in a global humanitarian catastrophe), because of recent threats to use them by Russia, and because nuclear deterrence doctrines of all nuclear-armed states are based on the capability and readiness to use nuclear weapons, it is even more urgent for scientists to study these issues, to broadly communicate their results, and to work for the elimination of nuclear weapons.​
How to cite.​
Robock, A., Xia, L., Harrison, C. S., Coupe, J., Toon, O. B., and Bardeen, C. G.: Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far, Atmos. Chem. Phys., 23, 6691–6701, Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far, 2023.​
Received: 22 Dec 2022 – Discussion started: 10 Jan 2023 – Revised: 08 Mar 2023 – Accepted: 11 May 2023 – Published: 19 Jun 2023​
Dedication​
This article is dedicated to Paul Crutzen (1933–2021). Along with John Birks, he pointed out that nuclear war would produce massive smoke clouds, which led directly to nuclear winter theory.​

 
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Laodicean60

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But after reading a paper on the latest climate modelling for a nuclear winter - I personally think it deserves proper noun status.
Either that or just screaming the thing in full caps - like "FULL SCALE NUCLEAR WAR!" every time we mention.
I for one don't want to live in the post nuclear world. Besides the climate impact, I'm sure it will cause earthquakes in some places and change the tilt of the earth as the Fukushima quake did. We don't know the true effect of a full-scale war on this planet but it will come someday.

From the test at the Trinity site in New Mexico, the fallout reached 46 states and today's bombs aren't yesterday's bombs. The climate issue is a problem but what will be bad is when people break into my house to steal my food once they steal from the grocery stores. Then we'll know the true meaning of survival of the fittest.

"We did not have the expertise to address issues such as a general societal collapse, infrastructure breakdown, psychological impacts, and probable halt to other supplies needed for farming, including fertilizer, seeds, fuel, and parts for machinery. All imported medical supplies and technology would also probably halt. We did not consider the impacts of additional ultraviolet radiation that would hit the surface due to ozone depletion in the stratosphere (Bardeen et al., 2021), and we did not consider direct radioactivity impacts on humans or radioactive contamination of food. Once the international banking system collapsed, would it even be possible to pay for imports if they were being traded? But one import would certainly increase. There would be flotillas of hungry people from the countries without food on their way south.
Robock and Xia (June 2023)"
 
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Estrid

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And that whoever you think you need to address
with your post isn't me. So plz desist.

Nice - duck and run!
Also - I didn't request we end a 'debate' - that was another commenter.
Also - it's not a debate to just stick your nose in and shout 'meatheads'.
It's just insulting - but sadly reveals how uninformed you are about this subject.

Here is what I propose. Don't call AGW activists 'meatheads' because we might sometimes discuss some very real science that makes you uncomfortable. Do you even remember the Pentagon's term for climate change? They call it a "Threat multiplier". EG: Crop failures or water shortages to lead to local conflicts that escalate out of hand. To this.

Here you are Estrid - your 'meatheads'.


Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far​

Alan Robock, Lili Xia, Cheryl S. Harrison, Joshua Coupe, Owen B. Toon, and Charles G. Bardeen​
Abstract​
The direct effects of nuclear war would be horrific, with blasts, fires, and radiation killing and injuring many people. But in 1983, United States and Soviet Union scientists showed that a nuclear war could also produce a nuclear winter, with catastrophic consequences for global food supplies for people far removed from the conflict. Smoke from fires ignited by nuclear weapons exploded on cities and industrial targets would block out sunlight, causing dark, cold, and dry surface conditions, producing a nuclear winter, with surface temperatures below freezing even in summer for years. Nuclear winter theory helped to end the nuclear arms race in the 1980s and helped to produce the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons in 2017, for which the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons received the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize. Because awareness of nuclear winter is now widespread, nuclear nations have so far not used nuclear weapons. But the mere existence of nuclear weapons means that they can be used, by unstable leaders, accidently from technical malfunctions, such as in computers and sensors, due to human error, or by terrorists. Because they cannot be used without the danger of escalation (resulting in a global humanitarian catastrophe), because of recent threats to use them by Russia, and because nuclear deterrence doctrines of all nuclear-armed states are based on the capability and readiness to use nuclear weapons, it is even more urgent for scientists to study these issues, to broadly communicate their results, and to work for the elimination of nuclear weapons.​
How to cite.​
Robock, A., Xia, L., Harrison, C. S., Coupe, J., Toon, O. B., and Bardeen, C. G.: Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far, Atmos. Chem. Phys., 23, 6691–6701, Opinion: How fear of nuclear winter has helped save the world, so far, 2023.​
Received: 22 Dec 2022 – Discussion started: 10 Jan 2023 – Revised: 08 Mar 2023 – Accepted: 11 May 2023 – Published: 19 Jun 2023​
Dedication​
This article is dedicated to Paul Crutzen (1933–2021). Along with John Birks, he pointed out that nuclear war would produce massive smoke clouds, which led directly to nuclear winter theory.​

You even got it wrong about who
requested that there be no debate.

I never run from a fight.

I do though remove myself from
where a skunk has sprayed.
 
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