Lesbian UMC bishop laments denomination’s ban on ‘queer clergy’

Michie · Apr 29, 2024

Karen Oliveto previously claimed Jesus had bigotries, raised concerns about making Him into 'an idol'

United Methodist Church Bishop Karen Oliveto preaches a sermon at First United Methodist Church of Charlotte, North Carolina, on April 28, 2024, during the UMC General Conference. Oliveto's election was ruled invalid by the United Methodist Judicial Council in 2017 due to her being in a same-sex marriage, however, she has remained a bishop of the UMC Mountain Sky Episcopal Area. | Paul Jeffrey/UM News

A United Methodist Church bishop, whose election was declared invalid in 2017 for being in a same-sex marriage but who remains in office, has denounced the denomination’s ban on “queer clergy” in a General Conference sermon.

Bishop Karen Oliveto of the UMC Mountain Sky Area gave a message on Monday morning before the churchwide UMC General Conference in Charlotte, North Carolina.

During her remarks, Oliveto asked those gathered if they were “willing to make God’s love visible in all you do” and if they would “meet and serve Jesus in the outcast, the downcast, and the cast aside.”

Continued below.

Lesbian UMC bishop laments denomination’s ban on ‘queer clergy’

A United Methodist Church bishop, whose election was declared invalid in 2017 for being in a same-sex marriage but who remains in office, has denounced the denomination s ban on queer clergy in a ...

www.christianpost.com

Ignatius the Kiwi · Apr 29, 2024

I lament Lesbian and Queer clergy in what were in past times somewhat decent churches. All I can say is, I hope the churches these lesbian priestessss belong to die off before they can taint other churches.

chevyontheriver · Apr 29, 2024

Michie said:
Karen Oliveto previously claimed Jesus had bigotries, raised concerns about making Him into 'an idol'

United Methodist Church Bishop Karen Oliveto preaches a sermon at First United Methodist Church of Charlotte, North Carolina, on April 28, 2024, during the UMC General Conference. Oliveto's election was ruled invalid by the United Methodist Judicial Council in 2017 due to her being in a same-sex marriage, however, she has remained a bishop of the UMC Mountain Sky Episcopal Area. | Paul Jeffrey/UM News

A United Methodist Church bishop, whose election was declared invalid in 2017 for being in a same-sex marriage but who remains in office, has denounced the denomination’s ban on “queer clergy” in a General Conference sermon.

Bishop Karen Oliveto of the UMC Mountain Sky Area gave a message on Monday morning before the churchwide UMC General Conference in Charlotte, North Carolina.

During her remarks, Oliveto asked those gathered if they were “willing to make God’s love visible in all you do” and if they would “meet and serve Jesus in the outcast, the downcast, and the cast aside.”

Continued below.

Lesbian UMC bishop laments denomination’s ban on ‘queer clergy’

A United Methodist Church bishop, whose election was declared invalid in 2017 for being in a same-sex marriage but who remains in office, has denounced the denomination s ban on queer clergy in a ...

www.christianpost.com

She and her friends have alienated thousands of United Methodists and hundreds of United Methodist congregations. So soon enough there won't be anybody to vote against the never ending resolutions to approve of the unapprovable. She, and a few just like her, will be in control of a handful of congregations and then the last one out can figure out how to turn out the lights.

Sad. But lots of UM people have moved on to something more Christian. My grandfather did it just over 100 years ago but even he would not have been able to foresee how the Methodists have fallen by a self-inflicted wound.

RileyG · Apr 30, 2024

I actually read her book. To sum it up it was all about "What about me?" "What about my feelings?"

RileyG · Apr 30, 2024

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I lament Lesbian and Queer clergy in what were in past times somewhat decent churches. All I can say is, I hope the churches these lesbian priestessss belong to die off before they can taint other churches.

I don't think Methodist use the term priest. I think the term Elder or Pastor is more appropriate. I am not sure about their theology, but many Methodist Churches in my area affirm LGBT behavior.

jacks · May 1, 2024

I often wonder if it is more about marketing than theology. The local UMC in my areas always have the rainbow flag out in front. It's like an advertisement for a segment of the population. They make the acceptance of LGBQ community not a part of their theology, but as the center of their theology.

hedrick · May 1, 2024

That's interesting timing, since the UMC just overturned the bans against gay clergy and marriage today.

Central conferences (i.e. areas outside the US) can override the change, and presumably will.

chevyontheriver · May 1, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
She and her friends have alienated thousands of United Methodists and hundreds of United Methodist congregations. So soon enough there won't be anybody to vote against the never ending resolutions to approve of the unapprovable. She, and a few just like her, will be in control of a handful of congregations and then the last one out can figure out how to turn out the lights.

Sad. But lots of UM people have moved on to something more Christian. My grandfather did it just over 100 years ago but even he would not have been able to foresee how the Methodists have fallen by a self-inflicted wound.

By a vote of 692-51 the UMC ban on homosexual clergy has been overturned. Most of the opposition had already been pushed out of the United Methodists. One way to be united is to push your opposition out I guess.

I foresee another chunk of people leaving the UMC rather quickly now, and then the slow drift into irrelevance.

chevyontheriver · May 1, 2024

hedrick said:
That's interesting timing, since the UMC just overturned the bans against gay clergy and marriage today.

Central conferences (i.e. areas outside the US) can override the change, and presumably will.

So how does that work?

dzheremi · May 1, 2024

Everybody's focusing on her "queerness" or whatever (including her, so it's understandable), but with that bit about how she's claimed that Jesus was a bigot and how she was worried about making Him into an "idol", she could be as a straight and/or celibate as an arrow and I still wouldn't want her within a hundred yards of any church that actually cares about the fate of people's eternal souls. What horrible spiritual poison. Lord have mercy. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

rjs330 · May 2, 2024

dzheremi said:
Everybody's focusing on her "queerness" or whatever (including her, so it's understandable), but with that bit about how she's claimed that Jesus was a bigot and how she was worried about making Him into an "idol", she could be as a straight and/or celibate as an arrow and I still wouldn't want her within a hundred yards of any church that actually cares about the fate of people's eternal souls. What horrible spiritual poison. Lord have mercy. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

God is separating the sheep from the goats. The true Church is not a denomination or a building. It is made of those of humble hearts who have recognized Jesus as Lord, repented of sin and live a life under his Lordship in thankfulness for his grace and mercy to us. Who live a life of repentance and gratefulness to him for our salvation.

hedrick · May 2, 2024

dzheremi said:
Everybody's focusing on her "queerness" or whatever (including her, so it's understandable), but with that bit about how she's claimed that Jesus was a bigot and how she was worried about making Him into an "idol", she could be as a straight and/or celibate as an arrow and I still wouldn't want her within a hundred yards of any church that actually cares about the fate of people's eternal souls. What horrible spiritual poison. Lord have mercy. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

The context was the Canaanite woman, who Jesus originally turned down. A number of interpreters say that her faith caused Jesus to reject the traditional Jewish objection to Canaanites. Hence she doesn't say Jesus was a bigot, but that Jesus gave up bigotry.

hedrick · May 2, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
So how does that work?

Unlike other US Protestant churches, the UMC is in principle a single international denomination. Under the new system, there will be a central organization with some central policies, but each region will be at least partly autonomous. Hence countries will be able to have qualification for ordination that exclude LGBT. I believe many outside the US will do this.

In the past every region except the US had this autonomy, but the General Conference (the international meeting) was responsible directly for the US. The change allows the US to have its own policies, just as other regions can. This lets the the international meeting focus on international issues. In the past, because US local policies were determined by that meeting, much of it as focused on US-centric questions. As the number of Methodists outside the US exceeds the number in the US, it made less and less sense for US issues to be handled directly by the General Conference.

The reorganization actually has no effect on LGBT questions, since the General Assembly removed LGBT related prohibitions on the international level. So the US won't need to override them. More conservative regions will no doubt want to do so.

Tuur · May 2, 2024

hedrick said:
The context was the Canaanite woman, who Jesus originally turned down. A number of interpreters say that her faith caused Jesus to reject the traditional Jewish objection to Canaanites. Hence she doesn't say Jesus was a bigot, but that Jesus gave up bigotry.

If that is what she claimed, then she either thinks God was once a bigot, or denies the divinity of Christ.

jacks · May 2, 2024

hedrick said:
Hence she doesn't say Jesus was a bigot, but that Jesus gave up bigotry.

That interpretation means Jesus was a bigot, but amended His ways?

rjs330 · May 2, 2024

hedrick said:
The context was the Canaanite woman, who Jesus originally turned down. A number of interpreters say that her faith caused Jesus to reject the traditional Jewish objection to Canaanites. Hence she doesn't say Jesus was a bigot, but that Jesus gave up bigotry.

Don't you have to be a bigot to give up bigotry? I can't really give up.smoking unless I'm a smoker.

RileyG · May 3, 2024

rjs330 said:
Don't you have to be a bigot to give up bigotry? I can't really give up.smoking unless I'm a smoker.

Jesus was never bigoted because he is perfect. Bigotry is a sin. Not agreeing with someone’s lifestyle doesn’t make you a bigot.

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2024

hedrick said:
The context was the Canaanite woman, who Jesus originally turned down. A number of interpreters say that her faith caused Jesus to reject the traditional Jewish objection to Canaanites. Hence she doesn't say Jesus was a bigot, but that Jesus gave up bigotry.

I happen to think that is a bad reading given the historical context and the nature of Middle Eastern discursive styles in a culture based on honor and shame, but it's a common reading in many churches by many pastors, so isn't exceptional.

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2024

jacks said:
That interpretation means Jesus was a bigot, but amended His ways?

No. It means Jesus was a human being, which is absolutely in keeping with traditional Christian orthodoxy. Humans by their very nature are raised with attitudes and norms of their culture. Even just talking to a Syro-Phoenecian woman would have been an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do. It would have obvious status imbalances, and this is what Jesus is acknowledging. But he lets the woman win the argument, because of her faith. Given the context, Jesus doesn't lose honor in the exchange, but elevates the Syro-Phoenician woman's status.

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2024

dzheremi said:
Everybody's focusing on her "queerness" or whatever (including her, so it's understandable), but with that bit about how she's claimed that Jesus was a bigot and how she was worried about making Him into an "idol", she could be as a straight and/or celibate as an arrow and I still wouldn't want her within a hundred yards of any church that actually cares about the fate of people's eternal souls. What horrible spiritual poison. Lord have mercy. The foxes are guarding the hen house.

No doubt about it, at the very least, it's cringey. But the average American takes egalitarianism for granted and it blinds them to the context of this passage.

Nevertheless, I think the worse sin is to read this passage and just assume treating people like dogs is the Christ-like thing to do. Some Evangelicals do that, they use this passage to justify a cruel and abusive theology.

Lesbian UMC bishop laments denomination’s ban on ‘queer clergy’

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