You don’t have a soul; you are a soul?

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,842
778
63
Pacific north west
✟413,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think you are saying the Bible is byjus.com.
I was giving the English definition of breath, that is required
for life to live. I tried showing you the bible definition before.

Do you use the English definitions for the word's soul or hell?
Why does English translations change Hebrew creature into soul.
They also combine several words in one [hell], also misleading.

So, I think you know that the Bible does not say the breath of life is air.
So, then, we agree the Bible does not say God breathed air.
The bible says man and animal both have the breath of life.
Once the breath of life leaves in either of them[hypoxia] they die.
All creatures on earth died by flood, they drowned: unless in the ark.

Does the breath of life give man something different then animals?
If it does, what is it ? , What does it do?,
Where does the breath of life go when it leaves the creature?

Does God go around breathing into all the creatures the breath of life.
The number of all the air breathing creatures is most likely unknow.
Do you know any creatures that does [not need air] to live?

I would not be able to do that, because i don't believe that, and never said it.
It might be best to ask the person you heard it from.
Whom did you hear say that?
That's what I was asking earlier.
Many people think when The breath of life was blown into Adam,
it was a spirt, or soul, or other. The bible says he [became a creature].
See here for a current example, you should ask the poster there.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,842
778
63
Pacific north west
✟413,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The oxygen is already in their cells Semper.
Yep: but with increasing levels of carbon dioxide build up.
Each person needs to have the air coming into their system sustained.
If not, the air is useless.
Kind of like my [quick] example of CPR right?
They required oxygen rich blood at that point. It works or
not, maybe some ware in-between. It depends if the heart
[or whatever is the emergency] gets fixed or not. Like I said
"With any luck, the heart starts pumping before damage
is done." Ex.. brain damage. I know people this happened too.

I have know CPR for a long time, it keeps changing some.
How long should you continue CPR? depends on condition.

I gave a [quick] example of childbirth. Normally the mother
supply's the child oxygen till child's first breath of air accrues.

At this point it becomes a living creature. Is this first breath,
the breath of life all creatures receive?
The human brain is an immensely complex and fragile organ
that depends on a constant supply of oxygenated blood.
Yes, the bible says the life is [in] the blood, but we need sustained
breathing of oxygenated air to survive. Some call this the breath of life.
You would notice the Hebrew word רוּחַ - ruach.
This is the same Hebrew word used in some of those verses I selected.
The problem is people say a word is used here,
the same word over there has the same meaning.
Definition: breath, wind, spirit: It could be only the air we breathe.

You point out how much we need air to breath to sustain life.
The breath we breath sustains all creatures' lives. Nothing here
says the breath of life controls our emotions or feelings.
Breath-air in and out of lungs.

Like the O.P. said (nephesh) frequent word many meanings.

Nephesh could mean air we breathe, in a sense spirit because
you cannot see it. Air is invisible mostly because it's a gas.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound,
but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
869
186
63
Detroit
✟26,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We are going to take spiritual death off the table, for the sake of this discussion, because that would add confusion to this discussion.
Okay, so you are dealing with physical death only. Thanks.

I referred to Hebrews 2:14 to accentuate the Devil "Having the Power of Death"... but Love that you saw the Jesus part, instead.
Sorry. I can't read minds. However, if I at anytime am able to, I'll save you posting, by posting ahead of your intended post. ;)

The Devil can Kill the flesh and nothing more (Matthew 10:28) We will simplify this and call it, getting run over, shot, falling off of the Grand Canyon, type of death. We will label that Type 1 death. (For discussions sake)
Okay. Type one death, to you, is killing the body.

I referred to Matthew 10:28 to show that God alone can destroy the human Soul... and in that verse's context He cites the "end times" Lake of fire. We will label that Type 2 death. (For discussions sake)
Okay, so there is a human soul. What is the human soul?

Earlier, I stated that God did breath His breath into Adam. Nothing has changed in reference to that statement, except maybe the complication of discussing the state of the "dead/people that have returned to dust" in addition to this already complex matter.
I don't recall you stating that "God did breath His breath into Adam"
I recall you stating that God breathed air (the breath of life) into Adam, and you stated that God did not breath a soul into Adam.
So, I am asking you, when did Adam get this soul in him, and where in the Bible can I read this?

When God breathed His breath into the formed dust of earth.
Are you saying that God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and Adam became a living soul, and at the same time got an eternal soul in him?
If so, where can I read this in scripture?

Also, why do you refer to the soul as an "eternal soul", when it can die, or be killed?
The Bible never refers to the soul as eternal, does it?

In the Hebrew, the word "Soul" is described as the very essence that does not go away, upon death.
Do you have a reference? Thanks.

In the Greek, the Word Spirit is more closely identified as that portion that does not go away, upon death.
Do you have a reference? Thanks.

So, equating "Life" with the soul, from how I believe you understand it, would mean that the "Soul" extinguishes like a light, upon death.
You've got it! Bang on!

This isn't how scripture explains the matter.
Why do you say that? Does the Bible not repeatedly say the soul dies?

Scripture suggests we are "sleeping", in the dust... but that is only a reference to the perception of the here and now.
I like your quotation marks.
They would suggest you understand, but then, you are saying something different.
So, can you please explain why you put sleeping in quotation marks. Thanks.

Per scripture of the Old testament, there is a realm of the dead where the souls of the "Dead/Heart Flatlined" sentiently exist.
Can you provide those specific "Old Testament" scriptures, please?

Jesus expounds on this matter and further adds that there is a Bosom of Abraham, where those accounted faithful, before His death, rested.
I read a parable in Luke 16, which isn't about the dead, or sleeping, or the soul, but rather, a application to the hypocritical Scribes and Pharisees who love money, and imagine they are in good standing with God, while they look down on the poor people, many of whom find favor with God.

Let's ensure we sync up in understanding what one another are expressing, before I answer this. I understand that this isn't a matter of "Do we Agree", but more of a matter of "How do you see that".
Okay, so can you explain what you meant, then? Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,842
778
63
Pacific north west
✟413,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Can you please show me where the Bible says
the spirit in man is given to child in the womb.
I gave you that verse already in the KJV version. Like most of my
posts you gloss over it, asking the same questions I just answered.

Here is the English Standard Version of Ecclesiastes 11:5
"As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones
in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know
the work of God who makes everything."

This verse basically says, we do not know how God does it, but
this spirit [in man] is given to the child in the mother's womb.

This is not The breath of life spoken of in this verse.

Can a person have Gods Holy Spirit administered before he receives
"The Spirit in man" ? God blew The breath of life you say is spirit.
So mankind has 2 spirits? When does man get The breath of life/spirit?
Animals do not have this " spirit [in man]" that gives us understanding.

Luke 1:44 (ESV)
For behold, when the sound of your greeting came
to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Yes, we need air to breath, and thanks to our loving father, he made the biogeochemical cycles.
To get man off to benefiting from that cycle, more was needed than filling Adam's lungs with air.
God made the biogeochemical cycles and way more for man to live on this earth.
God is a Creator, the bible mentions/describes many things you can read here

Not sure why you want to change Gods "very good creation" made long before
Adam was made. What about the creatures before Adam received this breath?

Please note Psalm 104:30
New Living Translation
When you give them your breath, life is created,
and you renew the face of the earth.
Your thoughts on this text, please. Thanks.
That happened "in the beginning" When The “Spirit of God" moved
upon the face of the waters. See this post and comment there
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Okay, so you are dealing with physical death only. Thanks.
You are most welcome.

Sorry. I can't read minds.
Be a lot cooler if you did... :cool:

However, if I at anytime am able to, I'll save you posting, by posting ahead of your intended post. ;)
Like when in the middle of a sinless doctrine debate.... aaaaaaannnnd they quoted James chapter 2, aaaaaaannnnd a scripture wall involving the word "obey"... Annnnnnddddd They're quoting condemnation scripture towards me..... :tearsofjoy:

Okay. Type one death, to you, is killing the body.
Exactly

Okay, so there is a human soul. What is the human soul?
Sigh... Do you know how much scripture surfing we are going to have to do to fully define this? You have a gift for asking questions that are a 100 lb sack of nails, contained in a 1 lb sack! :sigh:

I Love you for that! This is going to have to be a specific, dedicated post. It will be a rather large one, to back it up scripturally... so... I will generate it and link it (here), after we chug through this monster post, that currently exists. :p
I don't recall you stating that "God did breath His breath into Adam"
I recall you stating that God breathed air (the breath of life) into Adam,
In post (Number 37) I said:
Genesis 1:2 Ruach Elohim
Genesis 6:17 Ruach (Breath of Life)

G4151 - pneuma - Strong's Greek Lexicon

G4151 - pneuma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
Interesting enough, we see God form from the lifeless dust of the earth, a man, in Genesis 2:7.

Several interesting Hebrew words come to play in this small portion of scripture, that crescendo, in a sense, at Genesis 2:7.

5315. nephesh (Feminine, Soul, Living Being)
5397. neshamah (Feminine, Breath) - From nasham; a puff, i.e. Wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. Or (concretely) an animal -- blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.
5301. naphach
Brown-Driver-Briggs
[נָפַח] verb breathe, blow (כור נפוח Ecclus 43:4 a furnace blown upon (heated hot); Late Hebrew נָפַח id., ᵑ7 נְפַח, Syriac
bdb065501.gif
; Assyrian napâ—u, inflame, nappa—u, smith DlHWB 474; Arabic (
bdb065502.gif
and)
bdb065503.gif
blow; Ethiopic
bdb065504.gif
or
bdb065505.gif
Di712); —​

I find these words interesting, because, within them, the equation for life is revealed. What I find most interesting is that God intimately breaths His very "Breath" into "lifeless dust"...... which needed some form of liquid to become (clay)... which I personally believe is echoed here (John 9:6)

All this to say, (dead substance created by God} + {Breath and possible salivation of God) = (Human Soul, Human Being, Living spiritual Being)
and you stated that God did not breath a soul into Adam.
Could you please quote where in the world you got the idea that I insinuated that God "did not"...... It was either a typo, or a misunderstanding on your part, due to the fact that I was responding in a relaxed format, lacking precision.
So, I am asking you, when did Adam get this soul in him, and where in the Bible can I read this?
There's that 100 lb sack of nails. This isn't just one question. What it appears that you are asking is several questions.

When did Adam become "Eternal"?
When did Adam become/receive his Soul?
I don't agree that the soul is eternal, can you proof this?

Please correct me if I am wrong, so we can approach this in a way that answers your question, specifically.

Are you saying that God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and Adam became a living soul, and at the same time got an eternal soul in him? If so, where can I read this in scripture?
You can read it in Genesis. But, that would be a lazy answer, and I have promised to become more articulate. So, here goes an attempt at a precise answer.
We have to nail down a fact that scripture reveals, first. We are made in the image of God. That is no joke. God is a "Trinity/Tri-Unity" ie. God is Tri-Une or Fully Une and also Fully Three. (Please don't go into Trinity doctrine at this point, as it is a well established matter that would derail this conversation beyond repair, to expound, exegete on the matter, at this point. God is 1 and 3.

We are 1 and 3, as well.
1: Mind: Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

2: Heart: 1 Samuel 12:24 Only fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart. For consider what great things he has done for you.

3: Soul: 1 Peter 2:25 For you were going astray like sheep; but now have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Scriptural links on this matter could easily turn into 1000's of scriptures to back this... however, luckily, we have them all 3 in one location.
Luke 10:27 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Okay, hopefully you gathered the simple scriptural point that we are made in God's image, in a very special way, from that spoiler.
Next, we are going to have to bind a scriptural understanding of how this plays out, in light of our discussion.​
The mind, grey matter... physical being that is capable of thought, is DUST. It rots upon death.

The heart, inclinations, desires, culmination of will, needs and secret motives. This is the part that "goes of like a light switch turned to off" when we die, that you keep referring to.

The Soul, This is the part of us that simultaneously contains the very result of our heart and mind as they respond to our existence within this world. This "Thing" also contains the very "Breath of God". It's our very TRUE BEING. Our Bodies are Dust of an ephemeral sort, in the presence of a world marred by "DEATH". (Why did that guy use quotation marks when he said death?.... Because, death is now a literal being. It's another name for the devil! When God "Defeats" death, in Revelation, He is literally casting the being responsible for Death existing within His creation into the Lake of Fire.)
The Soul is the part of us that God is after! The Soul is what God SAVED, when He died, was buried and rose from the dead. God spiritually defeated "death" at Golgotha, but will physically defeat "death" at Hinnom/Gehenna.​

Also, why do you refer to the soul as an "eternal soul", when it can die, or be killed?
The Bible never refers to the soul as eternal, does it?
Ask yourself this question... WHO can KILL/Destroy the Soul?
Matthew 10:28 Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​
Who is the "Him" in that verse?
Grip said: In the Hebrew, the word "Soul" is described as the very essence that does not go away, upon death.
Do you have a reference? Thanks.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the earth as it once was,​
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.​

Ecclesiastes 3:20-21
20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows if the spirit of people rises upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth?​

Isaiah 57:16
For I will not accuse you forever,​
and I will not always be angry;​
for then the spirit would grow weak before Me,​
even the breath of man, which I have made.​

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore, we had natural fathers discipline us, and we respected them. Shouldn’t we submit even more to the Father of spirits and live?​

Matthew 10:28
Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

Revelation 6:9
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people (Souls)[a] slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.​

Philippians 1:23
I am pressured by both. I have the desire to depart and be with Christ—which is far better—​

2 Corinthians 5:8
and we are confident and satisfied to be out of the body and at home with the Lord.​

2 Timothy 4:6
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time for my departure is close.​

Jonah 2:2
I called to the Lord in my distress,​
and He answered me.​
I cried out for help in the belly of Sheol;​
You heard my voice​

Grip said: In the Greek, the Word Spirit is more closely identified as that portion that does not go away, upon death.
Do you have a reference? Thanks.
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,[a]​
the righteous for the unrighteous,[b]​
that He might bring you[c] to God,​
after being put to death in the fleshly realm[d]​
but made alive in the spiritual realm.[e]​
19 In that state[f] He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison[g] 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah

You've got it! Bang on!
I'm Glad I understand your perspective!

POST CONTINUED ON NEXT POST
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Why do you say that? Does the Bible not repeatedly say the soul dies?
I said that... forgive my direct answer... because ONLY GOD CAN KILL/DESTROY A SOUL. (Matthew 10:28). Only our infinite God, who gave us that Soul/Breath of Life can Destroy it. It doesn't go away, unless destroyed. It is what goes to heaven or sheol, upon death.

I'm not exegeting this... because that would be an entire OP, that would require sub, OP's, much like this post has already become, but... I will place the scripture for you to read through. Scripture isn't one dimensional. Long before science, Rabbis knew there was far more than this physical universe.

1 Corinthians 15

Resurrection Essential to the Gospel​

Now brothers, I want to clarify[a] for you the gospel I proclaimed to you; you received it and have taken your stand on it. 2 You are also saved by it, if you hold to the message I proclaimed to you—unless you believed for no purpose.[b] 3 For I passed on to you as most important what I also received:

that Christ died for our sins
according to the Scriptures,
4 that He was buried,
that He was raised on the third day
according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas,
then to the Twelve.
6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time;
most of them are still alive,
but some have fallen asleep.
7 Then He appeared to James,
then to all the apostles.
8 Last of all, as to one abnormally born,[c]
He also appeared to me.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by God’s grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but God’s grace that was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it is I or they, so we proclaim and so you have believed.

Resurrection Essential to the Faith​

12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say, “There is no resurrection of the dead”? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is without foundation, and so is your faith.[d] 15 In addition, we are found to be false witnesses about God, because we have testified about God that He raised up Christ—whom He did not raise up if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished. 19 If we have put our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone.

Christ’s Resurrection Guarantees Ours​

20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy to be abolished is death. 27 For God has put everything under His feet.[e] But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. 28 And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Resurrection Supported by Christian Experience​

29 Otherwise what will they do who are being baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are people baptized for them?[f] 30 Why are we in danger every hour? 31 I affirm by the pride in you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: I die every day! 32 If I fought wild animals in Ephesus with only human hope,[g] what good did that do me?[h] If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.[i] 33 Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”[j] 34 Come to your senses[k] and stop sinning, for some people are ignorant about God. I say this to your shame.

The Nature of the Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have when they come?” 36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed,[l] perhaps of wheat or another grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh; there is one flesh for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones. 41 There is a splendor of the sun, another of the moon, and another of the stars; for one star differs from another star in splendor. 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead:

Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory;
sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being;[m] the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.

47 The first man was from the earth
and made of dust;
the second man is[n] from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust,
so are those who are made of dust;
like the heavenly man,
so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne
the image of the man made of dust,
we will also bear
the image of the heavenly man.

Victorious Resurrection​

50 Brothers, I tell you this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption. 51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery:

We will not all fall asleep,
but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible,
and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal must be clothed
with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal is clothed
with immortality,
then the saying that is written will take place:
Death has been swallowed up in victory.[o]
55 Death, where is your victory?
Death, where is your sting?[p]
56 Now the sting of death is sin,
and the power of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory
through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 Therefore, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the Lord’s work, knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

I like your quotation marks.
Thank you!
They would suggest you understand, but then, you are saying something different.
So, can you please explain why you put sleeping in quotation marks. Thanks.
Scripture uses the term "Sleep" to describe how we perceive death, from the perspective of this Realm of the "living".

John 11:1 He said this, and then He told them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I’m on My way to wake him up.”​
12 Then the disciples said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will get well.”​
13 Jesus, however, was speaking about his death, but they thought He was speaking about natural sleep.​

I read a parable in Luke 16, ......

Jonah 2:2, 1 Peter 3:18-20, and that very parable, make it clear that there is a "Realm of the Dead". I will use STRONGS to assist.

Strong's (Sheol) Word Number H7585
sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
  1. the underworld
  2. Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
Don't get me revved up! Hell is a conflation that has been the result of the scriptural telephone game. SHEOL is the correct term. Hades is the Hellenistic way that the apostles taught the greeks, though "Hades" is the god of the Greco Roman underworld. Just keep it at Sheol. What we know as HELLFIRE... isn't lit, until the end of ages.

Grip Said; .......
To best enunciate Spirit in the manner Thessalonians equates it… and I had been interchangeably using the term “soul”, I’ll quote these verses (Matthew 14:26-27) People have become much more “skeptical” of supernatural beliefs, in this age. But, in Jesus time, the Term Ghost or Spirit was understood to be a legitimate thing.

Grip Said; The infinite, clearly has power over the eternal

Okay, so can you explain what you meant, then? Thanks.
I frequently offer multiple theological interpretations on matters that aren't "Salvational". The 3 outcomes post was about the different ways that people can theologically and quiet biblically proof their idea of what the 2nd death is. I.e. Annihilation, Purgatory or ECT.

God is infinite... No beginning and no end. PERIOD. We are "Eternal", unless destroyed by God Himself. Only the INFINITE can kill the ETERNAL.

I really hope this helps... and am on standby to answer more questions.

All Love in Jesus Christ, to you.
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
869
186
63
Detroit
✟26,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
First, allow me to apologize. I think I have responded to @Grip Docility, thinking I was responding to you, and I may have done it vica versa.
I didn't realize the difference in the avatars, once Grip started posting.
All I saw was a lion. My apologies.

I was giving the English definition of breath, that is required
for life to live. I tried showing you the bible definition before.
Did I forget to thank you for trying? I'm sorry if i did.
However, you were not giving a definition, but rather, quoting scriptures that mentioned the breath of life.
  • to destroy all flesh, wherein is [the breath of life]
  • of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life
  • in whose nostrils was the breath of life

A definition is saying or explaining - defining the actual subject.
Other scriptures usually define a subject in the Bible.

If you had, like @Grip Docility defined the breath of life as, for example, air, then used scripture to show this definition, that would be a way of using scripture to define the breath of life.
Am I incorrect?

Do you use the English definitions for the word's soul or hell?
No. I use the definition of the Hebrew and Greek word, based on the scriptural texts.
I do not use the English definitions for the word's soul or hell, because they are usually based on doctrine subsequent to the first century.
Hell, for example, is not a correct English rendering of the ancient words Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, or Gehenna.
Where Hell came from, is a different topic altogether.

Why does English translations change Hebrew creature into soul.
They also combine several words in one [hell], also misleading.
I think what you are asking is, why do some translations, use creature for the Hebrew word nephesh, for example, at Genesis 2:19.
I really don't know. I'll jot this down as a question for research, and get back to you.
I hadn't noticed that before. thanks for drawing it to my attention.
Perhaps you can throw the question out to others here, and see what they say.
@tonychanyt does some really good research. Perhaps he might be able to give an answer that's helpful.

The bible says man and animal both have the breath of life.
Once the breath of life leaves in either of them[hypoxia] they die.
All creatures on earth died by flood, they drowned: unless in the ark.
Yes, I agree with that.

Does the breath of life give man something different then animals?
The breath of life sustains the breathing of every living creature. As stated at Ecclesiastes 3:19, they all have the same spirit - spirit of life.

If it does, what is it ? , What does it do?,
The bible does not say it does something different in creatures.

Where does the breath of life go when it leaves the creature?
The Bible answers in Ecclesiastes 12:7, Job 34:14, 15, Psalm 104:29, Psalm 146:3, 4, and the text you referenced - Genesis 7:22.
That does not mean, some invisible force travels through the atmosphere into outer space, till it reaches the heavens of the heavens.

It simply means this: The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
The spirit from the almighty is what makes us alive. It lies with God to give spirit to those who have died... if he so wishes.

Think of it this way:
The bank loans you money to invest in a home. When you die, the money returns to the bank.
The money does not actually leave you, and go to the bank. The bank owns the value of the property.

Does God go around breathing into all the creatures the breath of life.
That's an interesting question. We all know the answer to that, I would hope.
Acts 17:26 - He made from one man every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth.
Genesis 6:19, 20 - And you are to bring two of every living creature into the ark—male and female—to keep them alive with you. Two of every kind of bird and animal and crawling creature will come to you to be kept alive.

Job understood that the spirit of the almighty made him, because every breathing creature reproduces a breathing creature.
You have never heard of horses, sheep, chickens, fish... borning without breathing, have you?
Why not?
The spirit of God is in the ancestor. Their descendants are not born without the spirit of the almighty.

The number of all the air breathing creatures is most likely unknow.
Tremendously huge number - some unknown to man.

Do you know any creatures that does [not need air] to live?
Thanks to duckduckgo :D Google got replaced... I found this:
This is the only known animal that doesn't need oxygen to survive
It’s still unclear how it gets energy

However, I don't think you are trying to find out what animals exist that do not need air, so we'll focus on your point.

Many people think when The breath of life was blown into Adam,
it was a spirt, or soul, or other.
I was not aware that many people thought this. I thought few did.
However, the Bible explains that it is the spirit that makes one live, and taking away of that spirit leaves one dead.
So, I would say, those "many people" are using the Bible, which defines the breath of life as spirit of life.
So these "many people" are agreeing with the Bible. It's not their thoughts.

Actually, you can come to this understanding, as well.
Consider Ecclesiastes 3:19. Most translations render the Hebrew word ruach, as breath. It's the same Hebrew word we render spirit.
At Genesis 6:17, the same is true.
It's the Bible that defines breath of life as spirit (ruach).

The bible says he [became a creature].
See here for a current example, you should ask the poster there.
I can research it.
I just did a quick search, and the reason is nephesh is used literally as a breathing creature.
Strong's #5315: nephesh (pronounced neh'-fesh)
from 5314; properly, a breathing creature

This does not change the meaning of the work. It only enhances it.
A human being, and animal are creatures.
You seem to find it to be a problem. Is that the case? If so, would you mind explaining why?
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
869
186
63
Detroit
✟26,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I gave a [quick] example of childbirth. Normally the mother
supply's the child oxygen till child's first breath of air accrues.

At this point it becomes a living creature. Is this first breath,
the breath of life all creatures receive?
During the debate on abortion, some have argued that life starts, only when the brain develops.
Some argue that life begins only when breathing starts.
This is not a discussion on abortion, and I am not whipping it up, but if you believe a creature is alive, only when it starts to breath, do you think a person in a coma - unconscious, is not a living creature?

In my previous post, I explained the breath of life in every creature.
I hope the scriptures answer your question, here.

Yes, the bible says the life is [in] the blood, but we need sustained
breathing of oxygenated air to survive. Some call this the breath of life.
What reason do they give for calling it the breath of life?
Does the Bible call it the breath of life?

The problem is people say a word is used here,
the same word over there has the same meaning.
Definition: breath, wind, spirit: It could be only the air we breathe.
Why do you think this?

You point out how much we need air to breath to sustain life.
You misunderstood me.
I pointed out that we need spirit to sustain life. Without the spirit, breathing air is not possible.
The spirit sustains the process of breathing.

The breath we breath sustains all creatures' lives. Nothing here
says the breath of life controls our emotions or feelings.
Breath-air in and out of lungs.
I'm not sure what this is saying.
Did you mean to say, the air we breath, sustains all creature's life?
Perhaps you don't understand what I said. II don't recall saying the breath of life controls our emotions or feelings.

Like the O.P. said (nephesh) frequent word many meanings.

Nephesh could mean air we breathe, in a sense spirit because
you cannot see it. Air is invisible mostly because it's a gas.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound,
but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes.
No arguments from me on that. The OP is fine.
 
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
In the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, the word psychḗ is used interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals.

Here are some examples:-

THE MIND
Philippians 1:27
"Only let your conduct be as becomes the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you, or else am absent, I may hear of your affairs,
that you stand fast in one spirit [pneûma], striving together with one mind [psychḗ] for the faith of the gospel."

Hebrews 12:3
"For consider Him who endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest you be weary and faint in your minds [psychḗ]."

THE LIFE
Matthew 2:20
"..saying, Arise, and take the child and His mother. And go into the land of Israel. For the ones who sought the child's life [psychḗ] are dead."

Matthew 6:25
"Therefore I say to you, Do not be anxious for your life [psychḗ], what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not life [psychḗ] more than food, and the body more than clothing?"

Matthew 10:39
"He who finds his life [psychḗ] shall lose it. And he who loses his life [psychḗ] for My sake shall find it."

THE SOUL
Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body [sōma], but are not able to kill the soul [psychḗ]. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul [psychḗ] and body [sōma] in géenna."

Matthew 12:18
"Behold My servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved, in whom My soul [psychḗ] is well pleased. I will put My Spirit [pneûma] on Him, and He shall declare judgment to the nations."

The above is a quote from Isaiah:

Isaiah 42:1
"Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul [Hebrew: nephesh] delights. I have put My Spirit [Hebrew: rûach] on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the nations."

Psalm 16:10
"For You will not leave My soul [nephesh] in sheol; You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption."

It was quoted by Christ's apostle Peter:

Acts 2:27
"You will not leave My soul [psychḗ] in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption."

Soma: The body.
Sarx: The flesh.
psychḗ: The soul.
Pneuma: Spirit.

We know that we do not have everlasting life until we are born of the Spirit of God, and Jesus said,

The wind [pneûma: Spirit] blows [pnéō: breathe hard, blow] where it decides, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit [pneûma]. -- John 3:8

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [chay] soul [nephesh]." -- Genesis 2:7

The question I ask myself is this: when Adam became a living soul, and when we are born of the spirit, is that when our spirit is born, making us living souls?

I don't know the answer, because when it comes to the word pneûma (spirit), it doesn't always seem clear whether the N.T is using the word in reference to soul, or to spirit, or interchangeably for soul and spirit:

Acts 2:27
"You will not leave My soul [psychḗ] in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption."

Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into your hands I commend my spirit: [pneuma] and having said thus, he gave up the ghost [ekpnéō].

Acts 7:59
"And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my [egṓ] spirit [pneuma]."

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit [pneuma] of man [ánthrōpos] which is in him? even so the things of God [O theós] knows no man, but the Spirit [pneuma] of God [O theós].

Luke 8:52-55
He said, Do not weep; she has not died, but sleeps. And they ridiculed, knowing that she was dead. And He put them all out. And He took her by the hand and called, saying, Little girl, arise! And her spirit [pneûma] came again, and she arose immediately. And He commanded that food be given her to eat."

Paul mentioned his spirit in the verse below:

"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my [emós] spirit [pneûma]" -- 1 Corinthians 5:4

Paul mentions our spirits in the verses below:

"The Spirit [pneûma] Himself bears witness with our [egṓ] spirit [pneûma] that we are the children of God. " -- Romans 8:16

"The one united with the Lord is one spirit [pneûma] with him. Flee sexual immorality! Every sin a person commits is outside of the body - but the immoral person sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit [hágios pneûma] who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price.

Therefore glorify God in your body [sōma] and in your spirit [pneûma], which are God's." -- 1 Corinthians 6:17-20 (Netfree Version).

1 Thessalonians 5:23
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole body [soma], mind | soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma] be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus".

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

----------------------------------------------​

So my mind leans towards the idea that the body = soma; and the mind / life / soul = psyche,

but only Adam had a spirit when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul - but his spirit died when it / he was separated from God, resulting in his body dying also. Not sure, but it seems to me that his soul did not cease to exist (there was hades, and there was Abraham's bosom).

Now those who are born anew of the Spirit (who breathes where He desires) have a spirit again. That would mean that we are born body & soul into the world, but only those who are born of the Spirit are body, soul and spirit.

... BUT I'M SPECULATING, and when I think like this, I know I'm speculating.
You just provided a ton of useful information... so it could be incorporated and used for understanding! You specified that this wasn't hard theological assertion, but biblical information to expound on the discussed point!

Who are you? You're awesome... that's for sure!

Thank you for all of the excellent root language discussion and the possible outcomes of what it implies!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0

tonychanyt

24/7 Christian
Oct 2, 2011
3,713
915
Toronto
Visit site
✟89,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
@tonychanyt does some really good research. Perhaps he might be able to give an answer that's helpful.
I confess that you are a lot more patient with @Semper-Fi than I was. I put him on ignore a few days ago. If he is interested in my opinion, he can upvote one of my OPs, then I will un-ignore him :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I confess that you are a lot more patient with @Semper-Fi than I am. I have put him on ignore a few days ago. If he is interested in my opinion, he can upvote one of my OPs, then I will un-ignore him :)
Did you expect this particular OP to generate so much discussion? The soul and state of the dead is a major theological undertaking, because it's not really laid out, cut and dry, in one particular place. It's one of those that really forks into opinions. There are all sorts of takes on each branching result of the discussion. It's a good one. :D
 
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
First, allow me to apologize. I think I have responded to @Grip Docility, thinking I was responding to you, and I may have done it vica versa.
I didn't realize the difference in the avatars, once Grip started posting.
All I saw was a lion. My apologies.

Hold up, so I wrote a dissertation for ... nothing? :tearsofjoy:

All jokes aside... I enjoyed having to go through scripture on this one. All blessings in Jesus to you.
 
Upvote 0

tonychanyt

24/7 Christian
Oct 2, 2011
3,713
915
Toronto
Visit site
✟89,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did you expect this particular OP to generate so much discussion?
No, not at all. I thought the issue was an easy cut.

The soul and state of the dead is a major theological undertaking, because it's not really laid out, cut and dry, in one particular place. It's one of those that really forks into opinions. There are all sorts of takes on each branching result of the discussion. It's a good one. :D
Right. This is where definition is important before a clear and precise analysis can proceed. See What is the human soul technically?.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grip Docility
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,547
2,027
North America
✟92,733.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
No, not at all. I thought the issue was an easy cut.


Right. This is where definition is important before a clear and precise analysis can proceed. See What is the human soul technically?.
Your theological position on the state of the dead is known as "Soul Sleep". I am intimately familiar with the verses used to successfully posit this. If there were a well written passage of scripture that brought you to evaluate "soul sleep", would you want to see it?
 
Upvote 0

CoreyD

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2023
869
186
63
Detroit
✟26,253.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I gave you that verse already in the KJV version. Like most of my
posts you gloss over it, asking the same questions I just answered.

Here is the English Standard Version of Ecclesiastes 11:5
"As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones
in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know
the work of God who makes everything."

This verse basically says, we do not know how God does it, but
this spirit [in man] is given to the child in the mother's womb.

This is not The breath of life spoken of in this verse.
Thank you.
Most translations say wind. Are you okay with wind? Do you have a problem with it? Why, or why no?

One translation - a paraphrased - uses breath of life.
One commentary says:
The word translated "spirit" (ruach) may mean also "wind," and is so taken here by many commentators (see Ecclesiastes 1:6; Ecclesiastes 8:8; and comp. John 3:8). In this view there would be two instances given, viz. the wind and the embryo. Certainly, the mention of the wind seems to come naturally after what has preceded; and man's ignorance of its way, and powerlessness to control it, are emblematic of his attitude towards Divine providence. The versions, however, seem to support the rendering of the Authorized Version. Thus the Septuagint (which connects the clause with ver. 4), ἐν οῖς ("among whom," i.e. those who watch the weather), "There is none that knoweth what is the way of the spirit (τοῦ πνεύματος);" Vulgate. Quomodo ignoras quae sit via spiritus. If we take this view, we have only one idea in the verse, and that is the infusion of the breath of life in the embryo, and its growth in its mother's womb.​

I don't have an argument against this text, as I explained in a previous post.
I asked for scripture, because I thought you were saying that God inserts the spirit at some point in the womb.
If you believe that the process happens naturally as God designed it - as I explained earlier, we're fine.

Can a person have Gods Holy Spirit administered before he receives
"The Spirit in man" ?
You will need to explain both terms, in order for me to understand your question.

God blew The breath of life you say is spirit.
So mankind has 2 spirits?
They can have three.
  1. The holy spirit
  2. The spirit of life
  3. The spirit (disposition) of man
Do you need scriptures for each?

When does man get The breath of life/spirit?
I explained here. Adam and Eve procreate, as well as the animals. No creature is born without the breath of life.

Animals do not have this " spirit [in man]" that gives us understanding.
In Exodus 31:1-5, God said he would fill Bezalel with spirit, and he would have understanding, wisdom, knowledge.
What is that spirit? Is it not holy spirit?
Isn't the spirit of the almighty (Job 32:8), holy spirit?

Luke 1:44 (ESV)
For behold, when the sound of your greeting came
to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

God made the biogeochemical cycles and way more for man to live on this earth.
God is a Creator, the bible mentions/describes many things you can read here
Not sure why you want to change Gods "very good creation" made long before
Adam was made. What about the creatures before Adam received this breath?
I don't understand the question.
I "want to change Gods "very good creation"", how?
What about the creature before Adam received the breath of life.
Are you asking if they did not have the breath of life? Why would you ask this?

That happened "in the beginning" When The “Spirit of God" moved
upon the face of the waters. See this post and comment there
I appreciate that is what you believe, but I don't think the verse before fails to supply the context for us. I also think that Job 33:4 agrees with Psalm 104:30.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,842
778
63
Pacific north west
✟413,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The breath of life sustains the breathing of every living creature.
As stated at Ecclesiastes 3:19, they all have the same spirit - spirit of life.
Air can mean spirit because it is invisible.

Semper-Fi said:
Where does the breath of life go when it leaves the creature?

The Bible answers in Ecclesiastes 12:7
"The spirit in Man" is what returns to God.

Semper-Fi said:
Does the breath of life give man something different then animals?
The breath of life sustains the breathing of every living creature.
As stated at Ecclesiastes 3:19, they all have the same spirit - spirit of life.
That verse says breath/or air. It can refer to spirit, because it in invisible.
All creature's breath air to survive. The Air we breathe give us life.

Semper-Fi said:
Where does the breath of life go when it leaves the creature?
The Bible answers in Ecclesiastes 12:7
That verse does not say "the breath of life.
The spirit mentioned is The spirit in man..

We have Ecclesiastes 11:5 a few verses away
"As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones
in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know
the work of God who makes everything."

Are you saying [spirit] here in Ecclesiastes is the breath of life?
How can it be when breath enters the nostrils on first breath,
yet this verse says in the child bones, it enters in the womb.
This is the same spirit in mankind that returns to God in 12:7

Semper-Fi said:
If it does, what is it ? , What does it do?,

The bible does not say it does something different in creatures.
So the breath of life is no different in man and all creatures, correct?
So this breath of life does not give mankind our emotions, correct?


Where does man get his emotions/ feelings/desires from then?
What is man made in "the image and likeness" of God mean?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0