Writing a book on free will salvation

FutureAndAHope

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Hi,

Today I sat down and started writing a book on predestination vs free will, called The Way and Free Will. If you have time have a read and let me know if it is lacking any content you would like to see. It can be found at The Way and Free Will in its current version.
 
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Hi,

Today I sat down and started writing a book on predestination vs free will, called The Way and Free Will. If you have time have a read and let me know if it is lacking any content you would like to see. It can be found at https://www.everybodymattersministry.com/downloads/predestination.pdf in its current version.
Good day, FAH

Seeing this is has a long history I am a bit surprised that you "book" does not contain any quotes from historical works ( weather you agree or disagree) as primary sources.

Consider -

Bondage of the will
Freedom of the will
Augustine's work on predestination
What about Free will

Maybe some Sproul - Chosen by God
Maybe some James white quotes from a debate between friends-
Maybe quotes from the 2 denominations discussing the issue:
Maybe some thing from Historical creeds

Maybe some substance to the issue ( we know there is plenty of it).... would be helpful

In Him,

Bill
 
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BBAS 64

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Suggestion:

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith


CHAP. IX.
Of Free Will.

1. God hath indued the Will of Man, with that natural liberty, and power of acting upon choice;
that it is 169neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
2. Man in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power, to will, and to do that 170which was
good, and well-pleasing to God; but yet 171was mutable, so that he might fall from it.
3. Man by his fall into a state of sin hath wholly lost 172all ability of Will, to any spiritual good
accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, 173and dead in Sin, is not able, by his own strength, to 174convert himself; or to prepare himself thereunto.4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of Grace 175he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone, enables him 176freely to will, and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his 177remaining corruptions he doth not perfectly nor only will that which is good; but doth also will that which is evil. 5. The Will of Man is made 178perfectly, and immutably free to good alone, in the state of Glory
only.

RC Sproul explains further




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FutureAndAHope

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Good day, FAH

Seeing this is has a long history I am a bit surprised that you "book" does not contain any quotes from historical works ( weather you agree or disagree) as primary sources.

Consider -

Bondage of the will
Freedom of the will
Augustine's work on predestination
What about Free will

Maybe some Sproul - Chosen by God
Maybe some James white quotes from a debate between friends-
Maybe quotes from the 2 denominations discussing the issue:
Maybe some thing from Historical creeds

Maybe some substance to the issue ( we know there is plenty of it).... would be helpful

In Him,

Bill
It actually has many quotes from Historical works .... did you even have a look. But having a look over some of these things can not hurt.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Just an update on the new book I am writing "The Way and Free Will" - I have been madly writing over the last few days, so it has changed substantially to the original draft I provided on here.

The section on Romans 9 has been massively updated, to explain the whole chapter in light of the Early Church Fathers' view on the passage and scripture.

The link below has the latest draft, and is being continually updated.

https://www.everybodymattersministry.com/downloads/predestination.pdf
 
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Josheb

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Having taken up the matters in your book in other forums with you, I'd like to take a different tack with you here if you're willing. I'll start with some very, very, very basic questions and I'll ask them one at a time.


Can a sinful sinner's* will ever overcome God's will? In other words, in any contest between God wanting something to happen and the sinful human wanting something entirely different to happen in the exact same occasion at the exact same time... who's will wins? The righteous almighty Creator's will or the sinful finite creature's will? Can the will of the creature ever overcome the will of the Creator?

Can a sinful sinner's will ever overcome God's will?











*I use the redundancy intentionally to emphasize the sinful nature and sinner status of the humans about which the book is written.
 
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Oneofhope

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Hi,

Today I sat down and started writing a book on predestination vs free will, called The Way and Free Will. If you have time have a read and let me know if it is lacking any content you would like to see. It can be found at The Way and Free Will in its current version.

The primary tool that I have used to allow the Bible to determine its view on free will, was to study the Bible in a timeline, chronological order. In doing so, the Sovereignty of God over people, animals, and even creation itself is staggering. As I studied the Bible in this fashion, I also took the time to collect and organize all Scriptures into an Excel Database so they could easily be tracked, and of course, I allowed the data, which is God's Word, to speak for itself.

I currently have over 350 sets of Scripture that put the idea of complete and total free will into a tailspin.

It's a tricky book to write, if not scary. The one thing we don't want to do is teach anything . . . not even a sentence that is not true. Unless, however, we acknowledge that we are presenting and offering ideas . . . not hardcore facts. That "Thus sayeth the Lord" mindset is a complete turnoff.

Anyway, nuff said. Best of luck and may God author your book.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Having taken up the matters in your book in other forums with you, I'd like to take a different tack with you here if you're willing. I'll start with some very, very, very basic questions and I'll ask them one at a time.


Can a sinful sinner's* will ever overcome God's will? In other words, in any contest between God wanting something to happen and the sinful human wanting something entirely different to happen in the exact same occasion at the exact same time... who's will wins? The righteous almighty Creator's will or the sinful finite creature's will? Can the will of the creature ever overcome the will of the Creator?

Can a sinful sinner's will ever overcome God's will?











*I use the redundancy intentionally to emphasize the sinful nature and sinner status of the humans about which the book is written.
The fact is you are looking at the will of man and God as opposing things. What if God wanted free will worship of himself? Then it is God's will to give man a choice regarding whether to accept or reject God.
 
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Josheb

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The fact is you are looking at the will of man and God as opposing things. What if God wanted free will worship of himself? Then it is God's will to give man a choice regarding whether to accept or reject God.
That is not an answer to the question asked. It's a very simple, op-relevant, and easily answered question. Let's try it again.


Can a sinful sinner's will ever overcome God's will?


.
 
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Oneofhope

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If you folks want to get to the bottom of this issue, study the Eternal Plan of God. Then again, this would require eyes to see, and ears to hear. If a person hasn't received the Circumcision of Christ, the truth will never be an option.
 
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That is not an answer to the question asked. It's a very simple, op-relevant, and easily answered question. Let's try it again.


Can a sinful sinner's will ever overcome God's will?


.
No.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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The primary tool that I have used to allow the Bible to determine its view on free will, was to study the Bible in a timeline, chronological order. In doing so, the Sovereignty of God over people, animals, and even creation itself is staggering. As I studied the Bible in this fashion, I also took the time to collect and organize all Scriptures into an Excel Database so they could easily be tracked, and of course, I allowed the data, which is God's Word, to speak for itself.

I currently have over 350 sets of Scripture that put the idea of complete and total free will into a tailspin.

It's a tricky book to write, if not scary. The one thing we don't want to do is teach anything . . . not even a sentence that is not true. Unless, however, we acknowledge that we are presenting and offering ideas . . . not hardcore facts. That "Thus sayeth the Lord" mindset is a complete turnoff.

Anyway, nuff said. Best of luck and may God author your book.
I would not mind seeing your database if you are willing.
 
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Josheb

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Thank you. Next question (again, this is a very valid op-relevant inquiry intentionally worded so it can be answered yes or not so we don't have to trade lengthy posts and can move quickly through very important realities undeniably related to this op, so please answer "yes" or "no")

Can any human know and/or understand every single influence in the past that has brought about any given moment of decision?
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Thank you. Next question (again, this is a very valid op-relevant inquiry intentionally worded so it can be answered yes or not so we don't have to trade lengthy posts and can move quickly through very important realities undeniably related to this op, so please answer "yes" or "no")

Can any human know and/or understand every single influence in the past that has brought about any given moment of decision?
A human can't.

But God can give individuals similar pathways through life. So that:

1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

No one person will have a life that deviates so far from the norm, that they can complain about their life being influenced uncommonly.
 
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Josheb

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A human can't.
Thank you. I completely agree (as I do with the answer to the previous question).

Next question:

In any given moment of decision, can any human understand all the possible future consequences or effects of all the possible options on himself and all the others affected by that decision?
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Thank you. I completely agree (as I do with the answer to the previous question).

Next question:

In any given moment of decision, can any human understand all the possible future consequences or effects of all the possible options on himself and all the others affected by that decision?
Although no human can know everything about their decision. They can know some things about it. They can know if they choose to go on in sin, someone could get hurt, but they would not know how many.
 
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Oneofhope

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Although no human can know everything about their decision. They can know some things about it. They can know if they choose to go on in sin, someone could get hurt, but they would not know how many.

How do we know that God doesn't make our decisions for us, as in, He causes His Elect to make a specific choice? The Scriptures are riddled with this form of Power and God isn't bashful about His responsibility.

The Scriptures, as in the entire Bible, scream with the Power and control that God has over all things. How we miss this, well . . . Paul explains that the Plan of God was kept hidden from the beginning. At what point does this come into the equation? At what point do we accept the Lord's responsibility?
 
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FutureAndAHope

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How do we know that God doesn't make our decisions for us, as in, He causes His Elect to make a specific choice? The Scriptures are riddled with this form of Power and God isn't bashful about His responsibility.

The Scriptures, as in the entire Bible, scream with the Power and control that God has over all things. How we miss this, well . . . Paul explains that the Plan of God was kept hidden from the beginning. At what point does this come into the equation? At what point do we accept the Lord's responsibility?
I have read through the list you gave me, and you have put a lot of diligent work into it. I believe God controls many of our actions, but not all of them. I don't know if you are old enough to remember text-based computer games. A story would be given, up to a point. Then the user would get to choose. The choice would determine how the story would play out.

I never used to know about God's planning, even now I don't fully understand, but I do believe after reading scripture that God controls many of the things we do. I have also encountered a story of a woman who fasted and prayed for 40 days. At the end of 40 days, God showed her books in heaven. They had detailed stories, even down to the exact amount of money we would earn in a week. But she said the stories were flexible, that God showed her they moved with our prayers and actions. Our lack of action could affect our own and other people's stories.

This is the way I see God's story writing. It is detailed, but flexible based on our choices.

I state it this way in the book:

It may seem hard to imagine the world having free choice and God being able to know the future, but I am a computer programmer by trade and have studied Artificial Intelligence, there is one branch of knowledge that can predict all possible outcomes in a simulation or game, the computer can essentially know within a system of free choices, all possible outcomes. God is a lot faster and smarter than a simple computer. The only way however that the computer can “know” the end from the beginning, is to set constraints on choices, making stories, or outcomes that are restricted, which simplifies computation. For God to know every event that could potentially happen He would need to put constraints on man’s stories. And we see this is what God appears to have done:

And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; (NKJV, Act 17:26-27)
 
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Josheb

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Although no human can know everything about their decision. They can know some things about it. They can know if they choose to go on in sin, someone could get hurt, but they would not know how many.
i did not ask about some things. I asked about ALL.

In any given moment of decision, can any human understand all the possible future consequences or effects of all the possible options on himself and all the others affected by that decision? Yes or no?
 
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