When will Christians put aside denomonational differences for a common good?

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DeoVindice95

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It seams to me that our differences tend to blind us, and hurt our common love of Christ. In my life time I have been to so many different churches of all denominations and enjoyed almost all of them. Keep in mind i live in the Bible belt here in east Tennessee and you cannot drive a mile with out seeing 3 or more church buildings, some of which are adjacent to each other yet none of them work together even for food drives and such. Some of the denominations I have visited even devoted whole services to degrading other denominations. Is there a chance we will ever start to work together in perhaps a loose confederation?
 

Truly1999

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It seams to me that our differences tend to blind us, and hurt our common love of Christ. In my life time I have been to so many different churches of all denominations and enjoyed almost all of them. Keep in mind i live in the Bible belt here in east Tennessee and you cannot drive a mile with out seeing 3 or more church buildings, some of which are adjacent to each other yet none of them work together even for food drives and such. Some of the denominations I have visited even devoted whole services to degrading other denominations. Is there a chance we will ever start to work together in perhaps a loose confederation?

Christians are like Israel in the Old Testament times. We are so far out of the will of God, so far away from him, just as Israel was so far away from God. When the Holy Spirit moves and draws a group of Christians back to God, the rest of the Church pays close attention, learns more and but fails to then shift to this new movement. Sounds crazy? But we have made the church so rigid, so structured, so set in tradition and dogma that we are unable to adjust. Instead, we try to contain the Holy Spirit and bottle him into our particular brand of church.

We want to live in our comfort zones. We want to be known as Anglicans, or Methodists or Baptists, or Catholics. Being a Christian is secondary to being a Methodist. Heresy? The truth is we don't want to be open to the moving of the Holy Spirit. The truth is we have misread God time and time again. We all disagree over who is following the 'true' path. But there is only one denomination which is in touch with Jesus - and that is possibly the Vineyard Church.
 
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Man_With_A_Plan

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Fundamentally, there are two types of Christianity. There's the sort with apostolic succession and historicity (Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, etc.), and then there is Protestanism, which is a mixture of semi-Christian theology, biblio-idolatry and humanist philosophy.

Those belonging to the first group, while differing for superficial reasons (for the most part), are the same in practice.

The Protestants, on the other hand, because they left the first group and have no bishops belonging to apostolic succession (with few exceptions), are the equivalent of shepherd-less sheep and as such are fractured into tens of thousands of "denominations."

You walk into any church in the first group, you'll see similarities and uniformity. You enter a church belonging to the second group, and God only knows what you'll find. One might look like a cult gathering, another a self-help seminar, and another a bunch of people babbling in "tongues."

Honestly, Christianity would be a lot more unified if the Protestant Reformation had never occurred.
 
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Truly1999

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Fundamentally, there are two types of Christianity. There's the sort with apostolic succession and historicity (Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, etc.), and then there is Protestanism, which is a mixture of semi-Christian theology, biblio-idolatry and humanist philosophy.

Those belonging to the first group, while differing for superficial reasons (for the most part), are the same in practice.

The Protestants, on the other hand, because they left the first group and have no bishops belonging to apostolic succession (with few exceptions), are the equivalent of shepherd-less sheep and as such are fractured into tens of thousands of "denominations."

You walk into any church in the first group, you'll see similarities and uniformity. You enter a church belonging to the second group, and God only knows what you'll find. One might look like a cult gathering, another a self-help seminar, and another a bunch of people babbling in "tongues."

Honestly, Christianity would be a lot more unified if the Protestant Reformation had never occurred.

And the Western World would still be governed from Rome by the Pope. There would not be democracy since the Church believes in theocratic form of government. There would be only a religious society with religious laws and Ecclesiastical Courts. The political and social reforms of the last 200 years would be reversed. There would be no freedom of expression, no freedom of worship. Homosexuality would be criminalised again - so, too, would be abortion. Divorce would be curtailed.

If we had your way, what else would be reinstated? The Inquisition and burning people at the stake?

I thank God for Martin Luther. I thank God that the power of the Catholic Church in Northern Europe is restricted. I thank God that I can choose to ignore the Pope. I thank God that I am free to disagree with the Catholic Church. Equally, I thank God that people are free to practice Catholicism. I thank God that parents are free to openly and proudly bring up their children in the Catholic tradition without fear of persecution - at least, that's how it should be.

The Protestant Church - ordained by God with Christ at the Head - allows greater individual freedom of thought than the Catholic or Orthodox Church does, and it is for this reason I am proud to be called a Protestant. At the same time, I love my Orthodox and Catholic brothers and sisters as Christians, who follow the same Jesus Christ and worship the same God as me.
 
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Truly1999

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And the Western World would still be governed from Rome by the Pope. There would not be democracy since the Church believes in theocratic form of government. There would be only a religious society with religious laws and Ecclesiastical Courts. The political and social reforms of the last 200 years would be reversed. There would be no freedom of expression, no freedom of worship. Homosexuality would be criminalised again - so, too, would be abortion. Divorce would be curtailed.

If we had your way, what else would be reinstated? The Inquisition and burning people at the stake?

I thank God for Martin Luther. I thank God that the power of the Catholic Church in Northern Europe is restricted. I thank God that I can choose to ignore the Pope. I thank God that I am free to disagree with the Catholic Church. Equally, I thank God that people are free to practice Catholicism. I thank God that parents are free to openly and proudly bring up their children in the Catholic tradition without fear of persecution - at least, that's how it should be.

The Protestant Church - ordained by God with Christ at the Head - allows greater individual freedom of thought than the Catholic or Orthodox Church does, and it is for this reason I am proud to be called a Protestant. At the same time, I love my Orthodox and Catholic brothers and sisters as Christians, who follow the same Jesus Christ and worship the same God as me.

Having said all that, the Protestant Church also believes that the best form of government is theocratic and not democratic. It also largely believes that the role of the man is greater than that of the woman. If it was not for resistance, it would probably ensure that the woman's 'place' would remain in the home, that only men could vote in elections and that the man would continue to provide for the woman.

It is only in the last 10 or 20 years that women can be church leaders - alongside their husbands. Mostly, women are still restricted in leadership and most senior leadership roles in Protestant churches remain automatically reserved for men.

We are all priests - it's in the New Testament. It's only the deliberate suppression of congregations throughout the centuries that has prevented us from putting the priest in his rightful place. Instead, we elevate individual preachers, pastors, and bishops to almost God-like status. Granted. God has chosen certain individuals throughout history. But we revere hundreds of pastors, handing over our minds and our bank balances, arguing away their abuses - and allowing others to 'rationally' explain how he needs this in order to do the Lord's work.

So, the Protestant Reformation didn't just happen because Luther got his hammer and nails out - it continues today.

Millions of people have left the Church in the last 50 years - and continue to file out each year - because they are voting with their feet. No longer will God-fearing Christians put up with the Church dragging it's heels over weeding out priests guilty of abusing their position. No longer will the children suffer at the hands of an oppressive Church as they have seen their parents suffer. And for some, they refuse to be silenced through being ignored by the Church.

Fundamentally, the Church - Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox - refuses to acknowledge that it needs to make far-reaching changes at every level. Until it does so, millions more will leave.
 
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Man_With_A_Plan

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I'm going to be a bit sarcastic here, but I don't mean it personally.

And the Western World would still be governed from Rome by the Pope.

I don't have access to a parallel universe, so I can't comment on this.

There would not be democracy since the Church believes in theocratic form of government.

Assuming your first statement is true.

There would be only a religious society with religious laws and Ecclesiastical Courts.

Again, no access to to a parallel universe.

The political and social reforms of the last 200 years would be reversed. There would be no freedom of expression, no freedom of worship. Homosexuality would be criminalised again - so, too, would be abortion. Divorce would be curtailed.

You think abortion is ok, I assume?

Have you ever heard of the Didache? It was written between 50-100 AD--at the same time as the NT, actually--and it was considered Scripture by many ancient Christians. In fact, the Ethiopian Orthodox still considers it Scripture. According to the Didache, 2nd paragraph,

"...you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born..."

If you're such a "free thinker," then why not include the Didache as part of your Bible? Why do you accept the Protestant canon as it is? Maybe it's because this ancient Christian catechism also tells to baptize in the "Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," and it calls the Eucharist a "sacrifice" and tells Christians to "confess" their sins so that their sacrificial supper may be pure? Chapter 14 says,

"But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned."

Hmm, it doesn't sound very Protestant, now does it?

How dare those disciples of the Apostles so ARROGANTLY tell us things we do not like. What savages!

If we had your way, what else would be reinstated? The Inquisition and burning people at the stake?

Now, when you say "my way," are you referring to the real me, or the caricature that exists in your imagination? You do know I'm not Christian, right? Also, the Inquisition thing is a really old chestnut that nobody with access to the internet and a modicum of interest in history still uses as an argument against the Catholic Church. Since I don't care to argue against such a straw man, I'm going to move on.

I thank God for Martin Luther. I thank God that the power of the Catholic Church in Northern Europe is restricted. I thank God that I can choose to ignore the Pope. I thank God that I am free to disagree with the Catholic Church. Equally, I thank God that people are free to practice Catholicism. I thank God that parents are free to openly and proudly bring up their children in the Catholic tradition without fear of persecution - at least, that's how it should be.

One is not "proud to be Christian" anymore than one is "proud to have been conceived" or "proud to have been loved by one's mommy." It makes no sense. Christianity is not a "social club."

The Protestant Church - ordained by God with Christ at the Head -

What? Lol. The ten thousand schismatic random groups with no coherence or sense are "ordained by God with Christ at the Head"? Whaaaaaa...?

... allows greater individual freedom of thought than the Catholic or Orthodox Church does...

So, in other words, you want truth to conform to you, rather than you to conform to truth. Ok. Got it. That makes absolutely no logical sense, but I get it.

...and it is for this reason I am proud to be called a Protestant.

There's that pride again. You do know that, in the NT, St. Paul calls pride the source of all sin? Pride is what actually led to the Protestant Reformation. Hey... If you're interested, I can lay out a huge list of reasons why Protestantism is a logical absurdity. Maybe you wouldn't be Protestant if you weren't burdened by the sin of pride...?

At the same time, I love my Orthodox and Catholic brothers and sisters as Christians

Catholics and Orthodox consider each other Christian. They don't consider Protestants Christian unless they've been baptized, and they don't consider their communities "churches" because they lack apostolic succession. (There are a few exceptions, such as the Anglicans and certain Lutherans.)

...who follow the same Jesus Christ and worship the same God as me.

Well, considering that the theology espoused by Protestantism existed nowhere on the face of the earth 600 years ago, I would venture to say that Protestants are completely different religion. They don't have the right to call themselves Christian.

Having said all that, the Protestant Church also believes that the best form of government is theocratic and not democratic. It also largely believes that the role of the man is greater than that of the woman. If it was not for resistance, it would probably ensure that the woman's 'place' would remain in the home, that only men could vote in elections and that the man would continue to provide for the woman. It is only in the last 10 or 20 years that women can be church leaders - alongside their husbands. Mostly, women are still restricted in leadership and most senior leadership roles in Protestant churches remain automatically reserved for men.

This old chestnut too? Nobody wants to keep women "a'cookin' and a 'cleanin." However, from the beginning of Christianity until the 20th century, only men were ordained. There's nothing wrong with that. Well, unless you have pride.

Protestants don't realize this, but Christianity requires two "markers" for something to be accepted as doctrine or practice: it needs to be a universal belief or practice, and it needs to have ancient roots. Naked lesbian "bishops" (yes, they exist) are a novelty like so much else in the gelatinous relativity of Protestant Land.

Humility allows one to accept that God, and not man, chooses who will be ordained. If God wanted you to be ordained, you would have been born a man, and if you don't believe that, then find one of those comfy Protestant communities that tailor fits whatever "truth" you want to believe--you know, one of those hell-bound groups that will pat you on the head and tell you whatever you want to hear.

St. Paul said, "not many should desire to be teachers, for they will face a harsher Judgment from God."

You're so focused on the glory of "leadership" that you forget what Christ said: "Whoever desires to be greatest among you will be least." To truly lead the people of God is to serve, according to many passages in the NT, and it's not a "glory" one takes upon oneself. To "glorify" in such a position is a sure way to hell, and I bet there are a lot of priests and bishops and popes in hell because of it.

Who would willingly want a harsher judgment from God? The only people who would are the proud who see the office of teacher in a purely worldly way.

We are all priests - it's in the New Testament. It's only the deliberate suppression of congregations throughout the centuries that has prevented us from putting the priest in his rightful place. Instead, we elevate individual preachers, pastors, and bishops to almost God-like status. Granted. God has chosen certain individuals throughout history. But we revere hundreds of pastors, handing over our minds and our bank balances, arguing away their abuses - and allowing others to 'rationally' explain how he needs this in order to do the Lord's work.

Christ said that his church would remain until He returns. In order to be Protestant, you need to believe that the church magically vanished for 1,500 years, only to be rediscovered in Germany by Martin Luther...who was apparently "equal to the apostles" and who taught complete novelties and through whose stupidity thousands of "denominations" came to be.

Regarding what else is here, it seems like what you've written is a bunch of irrelevant arguments. (Some priests do bad things, therefore...all priests are bad...?) Also, since we live in the world, we need money. Is it wrong that a church building needs to pay its bills?

Let's consider the words of St. Ignatius of Antioch (circa 105 AD), disciple of John the Apostle and third bishop of Antioch, in his letter to the Smyrnaeans:

"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the universal church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a Eucharist; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid."

Now, let's consider the words of Protestantism:

"Wah, wah, boo, boo, I don't like that so I'm going to make up my own religion(s)."

Yeah. I think I'll choose St. Ignatius and the Apostle John over Martin Luther.

So, the Protestant Reformation didn't just happen because Luther got his hammer and nails out - it continues today.

Millions of people have left the Church in the last 50 years - and continue to file out each year - because they are voting with their feet. No longer will God-fearing Christians put up with the Church dragging it's heels over weeding out priests guilty of abusing their position. No longer will the children suffer at the hands of an oppressive Church as they have seen their parents suffer. And for some, they refuse to be silenced through being ignored by the Church.

Fundamentally, the Church - Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox - refuses to acknowledge that it needs to make far-reaching changes at every level. Until it does so, millions more will leave.

Christ said, "The road to life is narrow, and there are few who find it. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of God, but only he who does the will of my Father."

If they want to leave because because "Christ is a big meany-pants who won't let me do as I please," then let them leave. I hope the door doesn't bruise their arses on the way out.
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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What I like about Catholic/Orthodox/Oriental Christianities is precisely the politics. I'm not a spiritual sort of person, I don't get excited about anything religious, I just like the politics. It would be nice if the political entities re-joined and in order for that to happen it would require significant reconfiguration of theology, canon, liturgy and authority.
 
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chevyontheriver

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It seams to me that our differences tend to blind us, and hurt our common love of Christ. In my life time I have been to so many different churches of all denominations and enjoyed almost all of them. Keep in mind i live in the Bible belt here in east Tennessee and you cannot drive a mile with out seeing 3 or more church buildings, some of which are adjacent to each other yet none of them work together even for food drives and such. Some of the denominations I have visited even devoted whole services to degrading other denominations. Is there a chance we will ever start to work together in perhaps a loose confederation?

It's a nice dream.

Actually, there is some cooperation in the pro-life front. I have seen Catholics and Pentecostals, Lutherans and Baptists, and who knows whats as well. We can pray and sing and march together and it all kind of works. In Minnesota that cooperation was forged over many years of intense January cold as marchers would gather inside the Catholic cathedral before heading to the state capitol and getting totally frostbitten.

I don't hold out much hope any more for Christians getting along, but I have seen it here and there.
 
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