What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

[fishmansf]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

“ without the shedding of blood, there is no Sacrifice for Sin......”

Because of the Shed Blood Of The Perfect Lamb Of God, EVERY sin ever committed on this planet and every Sin that can be committed in the Future has been wiped out.....Fully paid for......” It is Finished”
To “ cash in” on what has already been accomplished for you , you must “ Turn to God, with Faith in Jesus Christ”...... Do this by hearing and Resting in the Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing found in 1Cor15:1-4......

 

[Rescued One]

If a man keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Daily sacrifice for sin no longer needed.

 

[ewq1938]

What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

Animals were sacrificed for sin's to be forgiven under the first covenant so Christ came to end that as the last ever Lamb or any other animal sacrifice for that new covenant that started when he died.

 

[pdudgeon]

and to follow up on that theme, if you compare the sacrifices required between those of the beginning of Genesis with those required at the end of Genesis, you will quickly find that the poor had little possibility of their sins being forgiven, because the number and cost of the animals required put the possibility out of their reach.
And that was only the Book of Genesis.

Can you possibly imagine what the inflation would be like in today's world? The answer is there would be no animals left to sacrifice, and no grain either. Oil would probably in short supply as well.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

and to follow up on that theme, if you compare the sacrifices required between those of the beginning of Genesis with those required at the end of Genesis, you will quickly find that the poor had little possibility of their sins being forgiven, because the number and cost of the animals required put the possibility out of their reach.
And that was only the Book of Genesis.

Can you possibly imagine what the inflation would be like in today's world? The answer is there would be no animals left to sacrifice, and no grain either. Oil would probably in short supply as well.

God made Provisions for the Poor.....they could buy birds and such for pennies.....

 

[JIMINZ]

The Sacrifices made in the Old Testament did not remove the sin, the Sacrifice for any specific sin was only temporary.
Right up to the moment when Jesus died on the Cross, no Jews received Salvation the way you have, there sins were forgiven but tomorrow they did the same thing and needed a new Sacrifice for that sin and so on.
But Jesus, came to Take Away our Sins.

No one can keep the Law, for with the Law also comes the Law of sin and death, but with Jesus Sacrifice, comes the New Birth, and Life, the freedom from sin which the Jews never could attain.

Jesus Sacrifice is Once For All, no do overs, no repeating "It Is Finished!"

 

[St_Worm2]

If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

Hello Fishmansf, prior to the Lord's Crucifixion, God temporarily ~passed over~ the sins committed by OT believers, withholding His wrath, and His condemnation and judgment of them, until a proper sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins became available (which was the death & the precious blood of His own Son, the Lamb of God, on the Cross .. e.g. Romans 3:25).

Romans 3
25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance, God [passed over] left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.
26 He did this to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be both just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
​

--David
p.s. - as the Book of Hebrews makes clear to us, there is only One sacrifice that will atone for a believer's sins, and satisfy the wrath of the Father.

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
.​

 

[tall73]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

The sanctuary system was a shadow pointing to the true sacrifice of Jesus which was once for all.

The faith in God's forgiveness was still recognized by God, but on the basis of what Jesus would do, just as our forgiveness as well depends on that past act of Jesus once for all.

 

[coffee4u]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

Because even before he came to earth, the sacrifices the Israelites did, were in place of Jesus and pointed to him. Some were counted as being righteous through faith.
Hebrews 11 the entire chapter is on OT people of faith.

If Jesus hadn't come, the sacrifices, the blood the Israelites put on the door lintel would have pointed to nothing.

 

[RDKirk]

Because even before he came to earth, the sacrifices the Israelites did, were in place of Jesus and pointed to him. Some were counted as being righteous through faith.
Hebrews 11 the entire chapter is on OT people of faith.

If Jesus hadn't come, the sacrifices, the blood the Israelites put on the door lintel would have pointed to nothing.

In a way, those sacrifices were like faith placed on an account, a debt that would not actually and finally be paid except by Jesus.

 

[JIMINZ]

Romans 3
25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance, God [passed over] left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.
26 He did this to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be both just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Did this quoting from Rom 3:25,26 come from a Bible Translation or a Commentary?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Very simply, the OT looks forward to Christ, and we, with the NT, look back at Christ. So, the person and works of Christ is at the centre and always before us.

 

[mlepfitjw]

To restore a spiritual Edenic state that was lost from the first adam.

To no longer have a need for preisthood, Moses law, sacrifices of animal, which was still happening as Jesus Christ was walking around and spreading the good news.

To restore the whole world back to His Father, by paying for the price on sin once and for all.

Now anyone can go to the Father because of the Lord Jesus Christ and his shed blood that payed for the entire worlds sins. He being raised again by God only confirmed all the promises that were made before after He fulfilled the old testament laws and prophecies.

 

[dqhall]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

“For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.“ Hosea 6:6

The Old Testament Jews were not doing miraculous healings like Jesus. The miracles are proof God sent him. The baptism of the Holy Spirit came after Jesus’ ministry and resurrection (Acts 2). Jesus’ “Sermon on the Mount” is popular to this day. Most Christians do not convert to Judaism,even though you may find good verses in the Old Testament as well as bad verses. The Jews of Jesus’ day wanted to stone people who worked on the seventh day. Jesus taught them not to murder or even get angry. Forgive if you want to be forgiven.

 

[BrotherJJ]

What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

Old Covenant animal sacrifices provided a covering of sin, NOT, forgiveness/remission/pardon. The covering was only good for 1 yr.

Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(NOTE Those sacrifices which they offered everyday, year by year, over & over & over again)

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(NOTE: Not only did these sacrifices only cover -NOT FORGIVE sin)

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
NOTE: These sacrifices were a daily reminder of sin)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
(NOTE: Animal sacrifices didn't forgive/remove/pardon sin)

The sacrifices only covered Israelis.

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(NOTE: Other nations were outside of covenant promises, without God, without hope. Thank you Lord Jesus Amen)

 

[eleos1954]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

The PLAN of salvation was put in place (before creation) .... Jesus had to fulfill the PLAN.

The 1st resurrection does not occur until Jesus comes back. We have the assurance of salvation (through Him) but it does not become a reality until He returns and it actually happens.

The Law of God had to be fulfilled in it's entirety .... Jesus accomplished that (being in the form of a man) on behalf of mankind and made the gift of salvation possible to those who believe. The law must be fulfilled and no human being (other than Jesus) are/were/is capable of doing that.

People in the OT were saved (counted as righteous) the same way we are (grace, by faith in Messiah) .... they were saved by the promise of the Messiah to come.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi God had the power to forgive sins and as the Bible notes about Abraham that he believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. So Abraham died in faith and Jesus tells of Lazarus who died and was with Abraham in the grave. They were in a place of comfort but not in heaven. You see there is a difference between forgiveness and atonement. The new covenant which Jesus brought in was not for covering sin but removing them and as Isaiah noted though your sins be as crimson they shall be white as snow. In Rev 5 we see the redeemed cry out to Jesus that He was worthy to take the scroll and open the seals for He had redeemed them by His blood form every tribe tongue kindred and nation. Now redemption is paid and forgiveness and redemption are accomplished at the same time. Back then forgiven came and they waited for the atonement.

 

[fishmansf]

Hello Fishmansf, prior to the Lord's Crucifixion, God temporarily ~passed over~ the sins committed by OT believers, withholding His wrath, and His condemnation and judgment of them, until a proper sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins became available (which was the death & the precious blood of His own Son, the Lamb of God, on the Cross .. e.g. Romans 3:25).

Romans 3
25 God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance, God [passed over] left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.
26 He did this to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be both just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
​

--David
p.s. - as the Book of Hebrews makes clear to us, there is only One sacrifice that will atone for a believer's sins, and satisfy the wrath of the Father.

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
.​

Thank you very much! I should have realized this before I posted as just finished a Romans plan last week! I suppose the author of Hebrews speaks about it too.

 

[RDKirk]

The PLAN of salvation was put in place (before creation) .... Jesus had to fulfill the PLAN.

Something to consider as well is that in God we are discussing an omnipresent being. "Omnipresent" doesn't merely mean that God exists in every point in space simultaneously, it also means that He exists in every moment of time simultaneously.

So "God's plan" is not merely something that will happen in "the future." That's our limited viewpoint. But in the omnipresent mind of God, His plan is already accomplished. For Moses, the sacrifices looked to the future. In the mind of God, He was already observing Christ on the cross.