What are your views regarding the Revival movement ?

[MikeBigg]

Poetry and prose? Have you actually READ the bible?

Have you read the Bible? Are you saying it is not poetry and prose?

So when you say...
"I'm also unsure that every experience we have as humans and as Christians needs to be in the Bible. I certainly don't want my God to be limited by a thousand odd pages of mixed poetry and prose"...

...I say...apply that logic to Joseph Smith who says the angel Moroni gave him the Book Of Mormon, which the Smithsonian institute says there is not one shred of any archaeological evidence of the places mentioned in it.

And if you do apply your reasoning to Joseph Smith and Mormonism, then maybe you can answer your own question, because where in the bible does it ever indicate anything about making animal sounds, "crunching/vomiting in the Spirit", Holy Laughter, etc etc etc??? Is God the author of confusion?

Please look up the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5, and compare it.

Please show me in the bible where holy laughter and crunching is forbidden.

Clearly Mormonism and jwism is wrong - but holy laughter? Show me in the bible where it says that God cannot and will not induce laughter by the Holy Spirit.

I often wonder what Jesus full of the joy of the Holy Spirit looked like.

 

[TozerBGood]

Have you read the Bible? Are you saying it is not poetry and prose?



Please show me in the bible where holy laughter and crunching is forbidden.

Clearly Mormonism and jwism is wrong - but holy laughter? Show me in the bible where it says that God cannot and will not induce laughter by the Holy Spirit.

I often wonder what Jesus full of the joy of the Holy Spirit looked like.

No sir. The burden is on you to show us where it is in the bible.

And the bible...OT & NT is a testimony of Jesus Christ. The OT combines the Law, Prophets, and the history of the Nation of Israel up until Israels captivity, and return to Jerusalem.

The NT starts with the Life and works of Jesus, and then documents the Acts of the early Church, and then the letters/epistles, and finally ending with the prophetic book of Revelations.

Anyone who labels it "poetry and prose" has done the bible great injustice IMO. it implies you do not think it is the wod of God, and if so there is no basis for further discussion on this subject.

 

[MikeBigg]

No sir. The burden is on you to show us where it is in the bible.

No sir ... the burden is on you. You are the one suggesting it is not of God. Show me where God says He will not and cannot affect the emotions of people He created in His image - with emotions.

And the bible...OT & NT is a testimony of Jesus Christ. The OT combines the Law, Prophets, and the history of the Nation of Israel up until Israels captivity, and return to Jerusalem.

The NT starts with the Life and works of Jesus, and then documents the Acts of the early Church, and then the letters/epistles, and finally ending with the prophetic book of Revelations.

Anyone who labels it "poetry and prose" has done the bible great injustice IMO. it implies you do not think it is the wod of God, and if so there is no basis for further discussion on this subject.

I am fully aware of the contents of the bible. If I had used the word 'just' your comments would have some validity.

Show me one verse in the Bible that isn't poetry or prose.

To say it is not poetry and prose is plainly crazy.

For the record I think that that book of poetry and prose is inspired by God and useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults and instruction for right living.

 

[MikeBigg]

The reason I think the burden of proof is on you is that I have used discernment, experience, knowledge of God and the Bible to conclude that what I experienced as part of Toronto blessing was of God. But you say it wasn't and use the bible as your only defence.

So, show me in the Bible where it says that a God with emotions cannot and will not affect the God given emotions of one of His beloved.

 

[TozerBGood]

Show me one verse in the Bible that isn't poetry or prose.

To say it is not poetry and prose is plainly crazy.

I already have shown you a verse and you must have thought it was poetry or prose, and therfore ignored it. Here it is again...not poetry...not prose...but a direct instruction, which is why the burden is on you to show us where in the bible the Holy Spirit is the author of confusing animal grunting, barking, crunching/vomiting. being drunk in the Spirit, etc etc etc.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1st John 1:4

And "Holy Laughter"...??? While certain kinds laughing is considered a good thing, but when you consider the comment "...he who laughs last.." it takes on a whole new meaning. And the authors of this movement, who are bilking the duped christian public, and collecting donations from them, etc etc etc...do you think that they will be the ones who laugh last? No sir...it will not be a laughing experience for them when they face the Lord.

 

[TozerBGood]

Clearly Mormonism and jwism is wrong - but holy laughter? Show me in the bible where it says that God cannot and will not induce laughter by the Holy Spirit.

To say it is not poetry and prose is plainly crazy.

The reason I think the burden of proof is on you is that I have used discernment, experience, knowledge of God and the Bible to conclude that what I experienced as part of Toronto blessing was of God. But you say it wasn't and use the bible as your only defence.

Please use your own argument, and justify how you can claim Mormonism and jwism is wrong without using the bible. And when you attempt to do so, you will have your own answer.

As far as finding biblical justification showing why the bible indicates this movement is not of God, you have the ability to use Google on your own, and can find plenty on the web about it, and I am not planning on wasting one more minute with you.

MikeBigg added to ignore list for implying I am crazy because I do not believe the bible is simply poetry and prose.

 

[MikeBigg]

I already have shown you a verse and you must have thought it was poetry or prose, and therfore ignored it. Here it is again...not poetry...not prose...but a direct instruction, which is why the burden is on you to show us where in the bible the Holy Spirit is the author of confusing animal grunting, barking, crunching/vomiting. being drunk in the Spirit, etc etc etc.

Oh dear oh dear ... a man who doesn't know what the word 'prose' means yet still takes me to task over it.

Dictionary definition: prose: the ordinary form of spoken or written language, without metrical structure, as distinguished from poetry or verse.

So that verse in 1 John you asked me to comment on and which you said is neither poetry or prose, is indeed prose.

The writing in the bible is either proetry - typically the prophetic passages are poetry and are usually shown indented or italicised in bibles - or prose - generally the stuff that isn't poetry.

So, care to retract anything you've said so far?

As for testing the spirit, sure it can be held up against scripture, but also spiritual discernment, experience, knowledge of the nature and character of God are used. As I already mentioned.

I asked you about one specific thing, as that is all I have experienced in a Toronto style meeting. Would you say that God cannot and will not affect someones emotions?

Actually, I didn't know crunches were a big part of the Toronto thing. I have never seen that in a meeting, but have experienced it privately during an encounter with God one night at 3am.

As for Mormonism and jwism - they are clearly contrary to bible teaching. Holy joy isn't - Jesus had it - and if it was you'd have posted the scriptures here already.

Regards,

Mike

 

[MikeBigg]

Please use your own argument, and justify how you can claim Mormonism and jwism is wrong without using the bible.

No one is saying don't use the Bible here. I am saying please use the Bible and show me where it says that God cannot and will not affect the emotions of one of His beloved.

As the bible doesn't say that God cannot or will not do such a thing, we have to use discernment to make our judgements.

Here's a thing - a person may bring a prophetic word to their church. That prophetic word may even be a passage from the bible. That word may actually be wrong and borne of the flesh. Discernment is one of the tools used to determine if the word was right. Together with whether it is inline with other words that have been brought. Etc. The fact that it agrees with the bible is not enough.

MikeBigg added to ignore list for implying I am crazy because I do not believe the bible is simply poetry and prose.

Oh dear not reading properly again - I didn't say you were crazy, I said the notion that the Bible isn't poetry and prose is crazy.

Also, you inserted a word there - "simply" - I never said the Bible was simply poetry and prose. I said it was poetry and prose - an simple fact that for some reason you took exception to.

So I'm blocked by someone who can't back up his point with the Bible, who mis-quotes me, and doesn't even know what prose is.

Mike

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What are your views on the revival movement"

I never heard of a "Revival Movement", so I don't have "Views" about it. Sounds like "just another" new "Classification invented by man".

"On you tube you can see Todd Bentley saying he kicked an old women who was worshiping the Lord in the face , in the nose, as instructed by God, with his motor bike boot, then he claims the holy spirit fell. and how he punched a man, knocking his tooth out,"

No question but that Bentley was "Over the top". And no question that he fell into SIN even as he was conducting the crusade in Lakeland. But Smith Wigglesworth did some of the same things when he was instructed to by the Spirit, so there some precedent for it in ministry.

I would have gone to see Bentley when he came to Reunion Arena in Dallas - just to get a first-hand view of what he was all about - just like I did when the "Brownsville team" came to do their thing (which was really just "another church meeting". But he'd already Imploded before his scheduled appearance.
Oh well. Maybe later.

Right now there's the "Bay" revival, that nobody appears to care about one way or the other at the "Christian Confusion Media" level.

There were aspects that were just fine, and stuff that seemed extraneous. I suspect Bentley falls into the same category - MIXTURE.

Paul was a religious terrorist that destroyed MANY people before the Lord "Straightened him out". Peter was a religious bigot. Moses was a murderer, King David was an adulterer, and a murderer, and Solomon, and Samson were both libidinous fools. so in comparison, Bentley, cope, Benny, and others aren't all that "Bad". I don't PERSONALLY bother with ANY of em, since the FIRST Great and Glorious "Ground rule" for ministries is to "Eat the Meat, and SPIT OUT the bones. Some ministries are mostly "Bone" with little of real value, and so not worth bothering with. MOST "professing Christians" never bother reading the Word of God, and as a result are "Fair Game" for religious con-men, that Biblically savvy folks wouldn't have any problem with at all.

Whether or not they live "wasteful and dissipated" lifestyles is up for question. OF COURSE there's SERIOUS MONEY flowing through their organizations - producing their "Shows", and buying air time doesn't come cheap. My suspicion is that the WORST THING about 'em from "other evangelicals", and "heresy hunter" standpoint is that they're "Financially successful". Church organizations tend to HATE "Success" - unless it's theirs.

Laughing in the Spirit isn't a "New Thing" - we had instances of in in the Assemblies of God back in the '60s, and "Holy Rollers" came by their name honestly. Why do you thing the "Quakers", and "Shakers" in the 19 century were so named??

Folks made fun of THEM too - same 'ol Same 'ol.

 

[whatfor]

I have experienced laughing, shaking, crying , numbness, and other manifestation both at home and in Church.
Some occurred before I knew anything about what was possible or accepted as being from God.

I think it can be fake or counterfeit and also distracting during a service, but not always.

 

[Faulty]

I have experienced laughing, shaking, crying , numbness, and other manifestation both at home and in Church.
Some occurred before I knew anything about what was possible or accepted as being from God.

I think it can be fake or counterfeit and also distracting during a service, but not always.

Why not always?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Why not always?"

Because SOMETIMES it's a legitimate Spiritual expression. It's foolish to throw the baby out with the bathwater -

 

[Alive_Again]

People are far better off leaving these things alone because the fruit that comes from them usually lets the devil invade their lives.

Be very careful about associating what may be a move of God with a demonic spirit. It's not worth it!

 

[whatfor]

If I am at home alone and God chooses to give me one of theses experiences, why would I consider it fake?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Maybe because other folks who CAN'T move in the Lord that way, and DON'T understand what it's all about, and DON'T WANT anybody else to experience it, have poisoned your mind against such things.

That happens more than you might think.

The QUESTION ALWAYS IS:
Did the experience bring you CLOSER to the Lord, or move you farther away???

 

[MikeBigg]

People are far better off leaving these things alone because the fruit that comes from them usually lets the devil invade their lives.

Usually? How do you know this?

For me, and my friends it has brought nothing but good fruit. I know the Father more intimately than before. I know He understands me, forgives me and loves me unconditionally.

For me this came out of Toronto-style meetings and meetings held in England at the time of the Lakeland events.

Also, I know people now who are getting transformed by the the knowledge of the Father's love for them.

In my view, the lasting legacy of Toronto is not the laughter, or the falling over, or the crunches, but the renewed understanding that the church has of the Father's heart for us. This is of immeasurable worth.

Be very careful about associating what may be a move of God with a demonic spirit. It's not worth it!

Indeed. That almost goes without saying.

 

[Alive_Again]

Originally Posted by Alive_Again

People are far better off leaving these things alone because the fruit that comes from them usually lets the devil invade their lives.
​

Usually? How do you know this?

What I meant was it was better for those who ignorantly speak against what may very well be the move of God's Spirit in what is called a revival than speaking against the ministers of God (which is usually what happens here in this part of the forum). They usually depart from a scriptural comparison or search for truth and go straight for GROSS DARKNESS with fleshly CARNAL JUDGMENTS, bringing judgment into their (and anyone who cares to join them) lives. Possibly FINAL judgment if they die before repenting of it. Usually the people who do it believe they are always SAVED, and this is one of the very reasons why people are NOT always saved.

I said: Be very careful about associating what may be a move of God with a demonic spirit. It's not worth it!

Indeed. That almost goes without saying.

It would, but now we have someone comparing an obvious demonic spirit under another name compared to the move of God. I've seen people do it in other parts of the forum, at least one of them I haven't heard from again.

Since their is no "headship" on the forum, except for moderators who of course have to allow opinions to be expressed (with certain parameters). In church, no one would get away with a sanctioned discussion group or prayer group where someone started judging a minister of God (by the flesh). Yet, this is the hallmark of what happens here, and people are FAR better off leaving it alone and not partaking of it because of the way the ENEMY uses it to bring destruction on the Body of Christ.

 

[MikeBigg]

Originally Posted by Alive_Again

People are far better off leaving these things alone because the fruit that comes from them usually lets the devil invade their lives.
​

What I meant was it was better for those who ignorantly speak against what may very well be the move of God's Spirit in what is called a revival than speaking against the ministers of God (which is usually what happens here in this part of the forum). They usually depart from a scriptural comparison or search for truth and go straight for GROSS DARKNESS with fleshly CARNAL JUDGMENTS, bringing judgment into their (and anyone who cares to join them) lives. Possibly FINAL judgment if they die before repenting of it. Usually the people who do it believe they are always SAVED, and this is one of the very reasons why people are NOT always saved.

I said: Be very careful about associating what may be a move of God with a demonic spirit. It's not worth it!

It would, but now we have someone comparing an obvious demonic spirit under another name compared to the move of God. I've seen people do it in other parts of the forum, at least one of them I haven't heard from again.

Since their is no "headship" on the forum, except for moderators who of course have to allow opinions to be expressed (with certain parameters). In church, no one would get away with a sanctioned discussion group or prayer group where someone started judging a minister of God (by the flesh). Yet, this is the hallmark of what happens here, and people are FAR better off leaving it alone and not partaking of it because of the way the ENEMY uses it to bring destruction on the Body of Christ.

You've lost me.

Care to give an example of what you're talking about?

Regards,

Mike

 

[Alive_Again]

Care to give an example of what you're talking about?

Sorry, I'm not going to get 'em started again in that downward direction. You only have to go back a screen or two for more specific examples.

 

[Alive_Again]

Randy Clark and John Arnott came under immense criticism during Toronto. I feel huge rejection when someone has a go at me on-line for saying God heals today - what they must have gone through personally I can't imagine and, to be honest, I'm surprised they coped.

You really have to keep your eyes on the Lord. Kenneth Hagin said that when the Lord appeared to him and told him that He was giving him a divine healing ministry, that he didn't want it. He knew what people did with people like that. But he said that the Lord gave him a great compassion for those very people. They were being deceived. If you can see with the eyes of the Lord, you can walk anywhere.

It's no doubt a great temptation to listen to your critics, but you really can't.