What are your views of “mansplaining” a thing or not?

[MehGuy]

If I had a dollar for every woman I've heard complain that her male spouse/partner was essentially another child in the house for whom she had to carry thought load and whose needs she had to manage... The difference perhaps is that women experience this as a negative thing, a lack of a reliable teammate in the demands of life, rather than it making the woman feel fulfilled in a nurturing role.

Yep, women tend to view men who act like children as a negative thing. Growing up in a socially conservative household the men worked all day while the wives did very little throughout the day (with many of the men still doing household chores when they came home). I always viewed it as a strange psychological sickness in men that they not only put up with that, but even want it. I remember reading a slave narrative, and they had one interesting part of the book where the slave overheard a white person bragging to other people that he made enough money that his daughters would never have to work a day in their lives and that'd he do everything in his power to make sure they never had to lift a finger for themselves. He described how much satisfaction this gave the man.

I have some parental masculine instincts, but I do believe I am on the lower end of the spectrum. Or maybe I've just repressed it too much. Regardless, ever since I was a kid, I never wanted to end up like the men I was surrounded by growing up.

 

[Chesterton]

If I had a dollar for every woman I've heard complain...

As far as this part of your post, I could not agree more.

 

[RDKirk]

If I had a dollar for every woman I've heard complain that her male spouse/partner was essentially another child in the house for whom she had to carry thought load and whose needs she had to manage... The difference perhaps is that women experience this as a negative thing, a lack of a reliable teammate in the demands of life, rather than it making the woman feel fulfilled in a nurturing role.

Do you think that in a negative way when my wife feels that way when she, unbidden, makes me chicken soup if I come down with a cold?

At the moment, my hands smell like disinfectant from having just cleaned the toilet that she primarily uses...being former military, I do a much better job cleaning the bathroom and the kitchen than she does, we both know it, so I do those jobs. OTOH, she was taught by her military cook father how to cook, she cooks better and more efficiently that I do, we both know it, so she does that job.

 

[MehGuy]

@MehGuy I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling a "masculine rush" after you've provided help that was asked for and beneficial. I may be "womansplaining" here, but it could be you feel like a man as opposed to a boy, rather than a man as opposed to a woman.

I am not exactly sure what you mean? I probably feel both. A man opposed to a boy and also a man opposed to a woman.

 

[Paidiske]

Do you think that in a negative way when my wife feels that way when she, unbidden, makes me chicken soup if I come down with a cold?

At the moment, my hands smell like disinfectant from having just cleaned the toilet that she primarily uses...being former military, I do a much better job cleaning the bathroom and the kitchen than she does, we both know it, so I do those jobs. OTOH, she was taught by her military cook father how to cook, she cooks better and more efficiently that I do, we both know it, so she does that job.

What you're describing is not the dynamic I'm describing. You're describing an effective partnership. I'm describing marriages (or relationships) where the bloke essentially manages his day-to-day activities (ie. gets up, gets himself ready and goes to work), but leaves it to the wife to deal with everything to do with parenting, life administration, domestic life and so on. The bloke who comes home from work and plays computer games while his wife comes home from work, manages kids, cooks dinner, pays bills, sorts paperwork, deals with washing (basically everything required to keep the household running smoothly), when she's also been working. There seems to be a surprising level of such marriages in my generation, and it's a common lament from the wives.

 

[durangodawood]

....
Even when a woman asks for help and I do it... I do sometimes feel this masculine rush.. and immediately feel a huge sense of shame. This stuff really disturbs me to the core of my being.

Nothing wrong with that IMO, as long as you dont get carried away.

Im perfectly ok with a masculine sense of being helpful or useful. Just dont presume women need your help because youre "the man".

 

[RDKirk]

I am not exactly sure what you mean? I probably feel both. A man opposed to a boy and also a man opposed to a woman.

Don't you think a woman can get a motherly sense of femininity when she helps a man...such as when my wife makes me chicken soup when I don't feel well?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yep, women tend to view men who act like children as a negative thing. Growing up in a socially conservative household the men worked all day while the wives did very little throughout the day (with many of the men still doing household chores when they came home). I always viewed it as a strange psychological sickness in men that they not only put up with that, but even want it. I remember reading a slave narrative, and they had one interesting part of the book where the slave overheard a white person bragging to other people that he made enough money that his daughters would never have to work a day in their lives and that'd he do everything in his power to make sure they never had to lift a finger for themselves. He described how much satisfaction this gave the man.

I have some parental masculine instincts, but I do believe I am on the lower end of the spectrum. Or maybe I've just repressed it too much. Regardless, ever since I was a kid, I never wanted to end up like the men I was surrounded by growing up.

I laughed out loud at the misguided notion that a wife at home - with children - "did very little throughout the day".

I also disagree that the protective instinct is "paternal", but it may have been someone else who stated that upthread. The instinct is not "paternal" and "to be squashed" to want to take care of your family, whether you are Mom or Dad or just dating "family to be". It's an innate instinct for survival and extends to all close family members, especially children and sometimes just others who need help. Moms have picked up cars to save a family member.

There is a reason the mother bear protecting her cubs is feared.

 

[MehGuy]

I laughed out loud at the misguided notion that a wife at home - with children - "did very little throughout the day".

Well, that's what I witnessed growing up in a socially conservative circle. I am sure a baby is more demanding, but once you're a kid and able to walk and talk it doesn't take very much effort to glance every once in a while, to make sure the kids are not on fire. Socioeconomics might play a factor. I imagine if a housewife doesn't have basic appliances like a washing machine and whatnot they have more to do throughout the day. For most middle-class families at least... I don't see how a housewife doesn't have a lot of leeway when it comes to having free time. Especially when these housewives stay housewives forever. Including children being away at school, and even when they move out of the house.

I've heard from some housewives (usually poorer) who seemed to be doing a lot more than I witnessed... and like I said it's up to the particular woman. Some women will take great care in making a nice meal for their husband when they arrive home... most... just plop something in the oven and go back to watching trashy (often man-hating) TV, lol. I will say there was one housewife I remember staying at... who shocked me how involved she was with things. Sadly, that wasn't the norm I experienced.

I remember once in a while a talk show host like Dr. Phil would address insecure housewives and make an argument that they actually do way more work than their husbands... and I knew there was a chance there would be a fight when the father came home. I never did... but I was always so tempted to take my father's side when he dared question exactly what she did all day. He wasn't even mad about it.. he was just genuinely curious on a practical level. Although I do always wonder... if many conservative men reach a point in their lives when they think... maybe this arrangement is a mistake?

I also disagree that the protective instinct is "paternal", but it may have been someone else who stated that upthread. The instinct is not "paternal" and "to be squashed" to want to take care of your family, whether you are Mom or Dad or just dating "family to be". It's an innate instinct for survival and extends to all close family members, especially children and sometimes just others who need help. Moms have picked up cars to save a family member.

There is a reason the mother bear protecting her cubs is feared.

I was thinking today that the closest a woman might treat a man is a relationship between a mother and her son/sons. Not that women don't have instincts to care for men, but the instincts I see in men seem to be much stronger on average. This is probably more pronounced when you get outside of familial relations.

 

[MehGuy]

Don't you think a woman can get a motherly sense of femininity when she helps a man...such as when my wife makes me chicken soup when I don't feel well?

I imagine the range of motherly love is much shorter and has more conditions than the paternal instincts of men.

Not even saying this to flatter men, I view it as more of a defect of our gender than a positive.

 

[Paidiske]

I remember soon after my daughter was born experiencing a time when I felt very instinctively maternal towards everyone; my husband, the cat, whomever crossed my path. I'm not usually a very maternal person at all, so it was uncharacteristic and, I suspect, hormonal, and didn't last long.

I would find men in general feeling paternal towards women rather creepy, tbh. There's a power dynamic in it that is off.

 

[MehGuy]

I would find men in general feeling paternal towards women rather creepy, tbh. There's a power dynamic in it that is off.

I find it creepy also. When you rely on men for help you are tempting power dynamics to come into play. One reason why I tend to be rather cold with women... or at least... not care more about their issues than society cares about ours. It's not the only reason, but I am not sure how aware some women who scream about sexism everywhere knows about the signals they're sending men.

My parents allowed me to roam pretty much anywhere I wanted too because I was a boy... my sisters... they had to stay around the house. One time my sister left the neighborhood and was grounded for 3 months. Despite me sometimes leaving hte city and not being back until it was pitch black. They were doing it (my mother seemed to enforce this more than my father) to be mean to my sisters... but that on some level... their safety was more important. As a kid.. this realization made me somewhat sad.. but I also was more grateful to have the greater freedom.

 

[MehGuy]

Nothing wrong with that IMO, as long as you dont get carried away.

Im perfectly ok with a masculine sense of being helpful or useful. Just dont presume women need your help because youre "the man".

Nothing might be wrong with a single incidence... but I worry about this stuff having a culminative effect.

Given that, I think the great sense of shame I felt was a good thing.

 

[RDKirk]

I imagine the range of motherly love is much shorter and has more conditions than the paternal instincts of men.

Not even saying this to flatter men, I view it as more of a defect of our gender than a positive.

But a lot of women claim it is broader and the reason why there would be no war if women ran the world. It was a major point of argument during the Second Wave of Feminism as the reason why society needed women in politics and industry.

 

[MehGuy]

But a lot of women claim it is broader and the reason why there would be no war if women ran the world. It was a major point of argument during the Second Wave of Feminism as the reason why society needed women in politics and industry.

Do you believe this?

I certainly don't. This seems like just fanciful self-aggrandizing thinking. When I speak about paternal instincts in men being more widespread... I'm being realistic and mentioning the negative consequences that come along with it.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you believe this?

I certainly don't. This seems like just fanciful self-aggrandizing thinking. When I speak about paternal instincts in men being more widespread... I'm being realistic and mentioning the negative consequences that come along with it.

Those feminists believed it. Why are you more likely to be right about women's feelings than women?

 

[MehGuy]

Those feminists believed it. Why are you more likely to be right about women's feelings than women?

I'm not even sure if they really believed it themselves... but regardless... I don't take simplistic cartoonish views seriously... whether coming from a man or a woman. I may not be able to get into their head, but I like other man have interactions with women... and know they come with their own dark sides too. They're not made of concentrated goodness or anything.

I know some men think that way (or really really want to believe it's true) ... which I too view as a paternal mindset. A lack of respect for women.. maybe a lack of respect some women like.. but sexist trash regardless.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm not even sure if they really believed it themselves... but regardless... I don't take simplistic cartoonish views seriously... whether coming from a man or a woman. I may not be able to get into their head, but I like other man have interactions with women... and know they come with their own dark sides too. They're not made of concentrated goodness or anything.

[/QUOTE]

To be frank, your view that male/female interaction is reducible to an adult/child analogy is also simplistic and cartoonish.

I know some men think that way (or really really want to believe it's true) ... which I too view as a paternal mindset. A lack of respect for women.. maybe a lack of respect some women like.. but sexist trash regardless.

You seem to have said that for a man to accept a feminist viewpoint is a paternal mindset and a lack of respect for women.

 

[Robban]

My view is “mansplaining” isn’t a thing as it’s from a misandrist mindset. Do you hear any man say to stop “womansplaining”? Nope because it’s not a thing except to show you don’t value the opposite sex explaining their different views on average it’s used only when a woman disagrees with a man’s opinion.

What are your thoughts?

To start from the beginning,

Genesis 2:17, Eve was not yet formed at the time so she did not recieve any no-no.
The serpent knew this and was waiting for a chance to have a chat with her.

Genesis 3:1-3
Her reply revealed that Adam had been overprotecting, when she said that she must not touch the tree even, that is not what Adam was told.
Well, long story short, she touched the tree and did not drop dead,

so why not go a step further and eat of the fruit?

Something like,
No parking
don't even think of it.
Huh?

 

[MehGuy]

To be frank, your view that male/female interaction is reducible to an adult/child analogy is also simplistic and cartoonish.

[/QUOTE]

I don't think everything can be reduced by it, but I think for a great many behaviors we see between the genders I think the comparison is very apt. A lot more discussion to be had with this viewpoint. Hopefully a gateway to more complex topics too. Certainly, more than the idea that women are just pure beings.

You seem to have said that for a man to accept a feminist viewpoint is a paternal mindset and a lack of respect for women.

Yes, I think feminism often condones paternal attitudes from men. I'm very much not a feminist for this reason.

Respecting women isn't to blindly believe what they say, but to instead honestly question them. Like we men do with each other.