toxic christian parents

HIM

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But not everyone agrees so those things are not objective.
Whether everyone agrees has no bearing on whether a fact is objective. Facts are objective. Whether someone agrees is subject to how they feel therefore subjective.
 
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Freth

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It's not uncommon for children born and raised into a religious faith to leave the faith of their upbringing as young adults. I did the same thing myself.

My mother raised my brother and I to be devout Christians in the Seventh-day Adventist church. My mother was strict, as you would expect, and we didn't participate in things other kids did growing up. She kept us from the world in many ways. I had no ill will toward my mother, but as I entered my teen years I wanted to decide for myself what I believed. As soon as I turned sixteen I left Christianity behind. I found my way back thirty years later.

There are many things that can turn a child away from Christianity and toward atheism or agnosticism, toward unbelief. The parents may be doing nothing wrong and a child may still choose to go their own way, simply because, up until that point of young adulthood, they haven't had freedom of choice.

A young adult can see a parent or parents as hypocrites, because of their past, of sin. Even do as I say, not as I do. I found out at the age of fifteen that my mother had a child before my brother and I that she had put up for adoption. Neither of us had a clue that we potentially had a sister in the world. It didn't affect me like it did my brother. I think he took it personally, that my mother raised us all of those years and never told us about it. It was a short time after that he moved in with my father and never looked back. I would do the same thing two years later.

Living with our father, we had the freedom to choose what we believed. I had no ill will toward my mother, still don't, but I'm pretty sure my brother holds a grudge. I've heard some horror stories from other Christians who grew up the same way we did.

My own struggle stemmed from the fact that we lived differently than people in the world, let alone most Christians. We didn't eat pork. We observed the Sabbath. We had strict rules concerning modesty in dress. We went to church every Sabbath. The strict environment of my upbringing left me unable to identify with other kids my age, nor could they identify with me. This coupled with a verbally abusive step father in my early teen years put me in an introverted shell that took years to break out of. It took living in the world to normalize things and help me identify with other people.

Knowing what I know, do I regret my upbringing? No. Do I regret what I went through? No. My good and bad experiences that have made me a better person.

The young man in the OP could've had the best possible parents and still leave as an atheist. There is no guarantee that a child is going to stay in the faith they were raised in. I am however a firm believer that God plants seeds that grow later in life, because they did in me, and I wouldn't be where I am now, again a professing Christian, without those formative years and my mother's strict upbringing. I think I turned out okay.

The parents of the young man may be guilty of being hypocrites. They may be guilty of trying to scare their son into turning away from sin. They may even be doing it all wrong, but you can't deny that they care about their son and want what is best for him.

As Christians, of course we should impress upon our children the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus. We should not use fear as a tool, but should show utmost love, and let God do the rest. God has a way of sorting these things out. I'm proof of that. He brought me back from where I was, lost for thirty years. He will bring this young man back and mend any divide between him and his parents, I have no doubt.

Are his parents in the right or wrong? That's not for me to decide, but for God to decide. Is the son justified in leaving the faith? Only God knows. Each person must decide for themselves what they believe to be true, and the only way to find out is to test the waters.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Christians are being conformed to the image of Christ. We repent. Let your light so shine!

That's the key there though, isn't it--repentance. What happens when we refuse to repent?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Rescued One

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That's the key there though, isn't it--repentance. What happens when we refuse to repent?

-CryptoLutheran
Who are you calling "we"? People who don't repent are non-Christians. People who love Christ, repent, do they not?.
 
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Rescued One

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It's not uncommon for children born and raised into a religious faith to leave the faith of their upbringing as young adults. I did the same thing myself.

My mother raised my brother and I to be devout Christians in the Seventh-day Adventist church. My mother was strict, as you would expect, and we didn't participate in things other kids did growing up. She kept us from the world in many ways. I had no ill will toward my mother, but as I entered my teen years I wanted to decide for myself what I believed. As soon as I turned sixteen I left Christianity behind. I found my way back thirty years later.

There are many things that can turn a child away from Christianity and toward atheism or agnosticism, toward unbelief. The parents may be doing nothing wrong and a child may still choose to go their own way, simply because, up until that point of young adulthood, they haven't had freedom of choice.

A young adult can see a parent or parents as hypocrites, because of their past, of sin. Even do as I say, not as I do. I found out at the age of fifteen that my mother had a child before my brother and I that she had put up for adoption. Neither of us had a clue that we potentially had a sister in the world. It didn't affect me like it did my brother. I think he took it personally, that my mother raised us all of those years and never told us about it. It was a short time after that he moved in with my father and never looked back. I would do the same thing two years later.

Living with our father, we had the freedom to choose what we believed. I had no ill will toward my mother, still don't, but I'm pretty sure my brother holds a grudge. I've heard some horror stories from other Christians who grew up the same way we did.

My own struggle stemmed from the fact that we lived differently than people in the world, let alone most Christians. We didn't eat pork. We observed the Sabbath. We had strict rules concerning modesty in dress. We went to church every Sabbath. The strict environment of my upbringing left me unable to identify with other kids my age, nor could they identify with me. This coupled with a verbally abusive step father in my early teen years put me in an introverted shell that took years to break out of. It took living in the world to normalize things and help me identify with other people.

Knowing what I know, do I regret my upbringing? No. Do I regret what I went through? No. My good and bad experiences that have made me a better person.

The young man in the OP could've had the best possible parents and still leave as an atheist. There is no guarantee that a child is going to stay in the faith they were raised in. I am however a firm believer that God plants seeds that grow later in life, because they did in me, and I wouldn't be where I am now, again a professing Christian, without those formative years and my mother's strict upbringing. I think I turned out okay.

The parents of the young man may be guilty of being hypocrites. They may be guilty of trying to scare their son into turning away from sin. They may even be doing it all wrong, but you can't deny that they care about their son and want what is best for him.

As Christians, of course we should impress upon our children the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus. We should not use fear as a tool, but should show utmost love, and let God do the rest. God has a way of sorting these things out. I'm proof of that. He brought me back from where I was, lost for thirty years. He will bring this young man back and mend any divide between him and his parents, I have no doubt.

Are his parents in the right or wrong? That's not for me to decide, but for God to decide. Is the son justified in leaving the faith? Only God knows. Each person must decide for themselves what they believe to be true, and the only way to find out is to test the waters.
My parents divorced in 1955. I learned to pray at age 4, taught by a German baby-sitter. My mother's second husband must have convinced her to buy Bibles for her 2 children that knew how to read. My sister was head-strong and never read her Bible. My mother
didn't like church or teach us about God and we never prayed. I prayed secretly in German but I didn't understand German. Long story short: My 5 siblings hate(d) Christianity. As the years went by I realized my mother didn't think much of Christianity. One time she told me she was a deist. She criticized all the names I gave my children. She had 3 failed marriages, but she always wanted a man in her life. Children from those marriages totaled six. My father was a staunch atheist but very judgmental of people who weren't what he considered "successful." Those who didn't attend college were losers in his mind.

I believe we are supposed to make righteous judgments when choosing friends or knowing who we can trust. My mother's third husband was a child molester, a wife abuser, and an alcoholic. Should I pretend those weren't facts?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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It's a delicate subject to talk about, I get along very well with my mother and we have a healthy relationship,but I know that many don't, in fact my grandmother was a religious fanatic and, with all due respect, abusive towards my mother and uncles, but my mother didn't lose her faith, which is good, right!
But when I hear an atheist talking about his religious fanatic parents, I feel a lot of sympathy for him. Because in fact most of the time he is right, you know parents who hit their children while they said Bible verses etc.
Of course, there are cases where parents really weren't bad people, they just put a few more rules in their homes.
But the case that struck me the most was one I read on reddit
In this case, the parents had good intentions, they spoke the truth, they were not bad people but they had serious defects
according to the son
the problems were political and religious fanaticism, not in terms of opinion, but in every meeting he had and has with his parents, they didn't stop talking about religion and politics
the second problem was the lack of space and psychological pressure
At 18 he became an atheist and started dating
His parents started putting some psychological pressure on him and his mother started crying saying things I know you're having sex, and they started begging him and his fiancée to go back to being Christians or they would go to hell, in every personal encounter. that they had,
the third problem is hypocrisy, when the son said he was going to live with his girlfriend, the father said that in the past if a woman lived with a man without getting married she was despised by society and rightly so, and the son discovered later that the parents lived together without getting married for 1 year,
I would like to hear opinions, on the one hand I understand the parents' desperation in knowing that their son could be condemned, but on the other hand I understand him wanting to move, I'm being modernist, I'm wrong in my thinking?
The truth is that we all, no matter who we are, will have to stand before Jesus Christ one day and give an account of their lives. The son will have to give his account to Christ and so will his parents. The son won't be able to blame his parents for what he decided to do with his life and whether he believed the Gospel or not.
 
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lismore

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The implication--and error--of this way of thinking is not only does it create a kind of "No True Scotsman" fallacy; but it paints a false portrait of being a Christian.

No true Scotsman would ever mention the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. :D

Christians are sinners, the same as anyone else. Christians fail, we sin. We sin a lot.
Yes. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you (Colossians 3:13).
God Bless :)
 
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Rescued One

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The implication--and error--of this way of thinking is not only does it create a kind of "No True Scotsman" fallacy; but it paints a false portrait of being a Christian.

Christians are sinners, the same as anyone else. Christians fail, we sin. We sin a lot.

St. Paul speaks of the Christian paradox--that we are simul iustus et peccator, both saints and sinners--in Romans ch. 7. The role of the Law in exposing our sin means that the more we try to obey God the more sinful we actually discover ourselves to be. That it is as though sin were a wild beast, ready to strike, a force of nature within our own bodily members. So that what we know we shouldn't do, we do; even as we fail to do what we should do.

Toxicity in the Christian is sin. And the remedy, according to Scripture, is repentance. The Law must be preached that the old man be put to death, we are sinners, God have mercy on us and save us. The promise of God is that if we confess our sins, God is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us of our unrighteousness--and the Gospel is proclaimed by which we have that forgiveness, that mercy, that word of God which declares us forgiven for Christ's sake.

Sin, left to fester, erodes at us, gnaws at us, it sears the conscience so that it ceases to be reliable, because we quench the Spirit, we shut our ears to hear, we close our eyes so that we cannot see. And the cancer grows--and it very well may kill us, destroy us, unless it is nipped in the bud--that is why we must always mortify our flesh through the Law, and always cleave to Christ in faith through the Gospel, for by grace alone are we saved, we live alone by mercy. For all that we have comes from God, by His perfect love toward us; we must therefore always abide in Christ, abide at His cross, humble, grieving over our sin, rejoicing in God's forgiveness--that even as Christ lives so too do we live, and have life everlasting.

Any one of us who calls Christ Lord can spiral into the darkness--not because of God's unfaithfulness, but because we depart from God in Christ seeking our own "righteousness" apart from Christ, by choosing our own way rather than God's. And unless the Law hammers down, and the Gospel rescues and lifts us up; simultaneously killing the old man, the old Adam within us and giving life to the new man which is in Christ, then the warning stands, "there is sin that leads unto death" as St. John says in his epistle. Not all sin is deadly, but there is sin that is. The tongue is a tiny bodily member, but the tongue is an untamed beast says St. James, making hypocrites of us all, "With the tongue we bless our God and Father, and with our tongue we curse our fellow man created in His image. My brothers, this should not be so."

The danger in saying "there are no toxic Christians" or denying that such can exist within a Christian, is that it can lead us to a terrible place where we refuse to acknowledge it in ourselves, we stop recognizing that we are the problem, we are sinners, that our sin is a deep wrong which we need to rush and fall prostrate before God's throne of mercy and plead His grace, clinging to Christ and Christ's word and promise. We cease coming boldly before the Throne of Mercy and shut ourselves off from God--from the Holy Spirit who is always drawing us to Christ, cursing the inheritance we have received from the Father, trampling over the cross of Jesus Christ.

There are toxic Christians, and often it's us. Lord have mercy on us sinners. Jesus save us.

-CryptoLutheran
I'm not a Lutheran. I believe a Christian can be recognized:

Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 John 3
9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

1 John 4
7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

20If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Christians aren't sinless, but we are being conformed to the image of Christ. We are new creatures who want to live lives that are pleasing to God. We ask God for forgiveness and repent of our sins.

2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
 
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rjs330

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I'm not a Lutheran. I believe a Christian can be recognized:

Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 John 3
9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

1 John 4
7Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

20If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Christians aren't sinless, but we are being conformed to the image of Christ. We are new creatures who want to live lives that are pleasing to God. We ask God for forgiveness and repent of our sins.

2 Timothy 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
THIS is so good and true! I wish I could winner it a million times!
 
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stevil

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I would like to hear opinions, on the one hand I understand the parents' desperation in knowing that their son could be condemned, but on the other hand I understand him wanting to move, I'm being modernist, I'm wrong in my thinking?
Parents should love their kids regardless of their kids beliefs. Parents should encourage their kids to find their own path in life. Parents should be there for their kids, giving them love and support and building up their confidence. Once kids turn 12 parents should start letting go of control, letting their kids make their own decisions. Parents shouldn't be over controlling, shouldn't goad, ridicule, coerce or blackmail their children.
 
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Rescued One

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Psalm 1:1 NIV
Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked(ungodly) or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers,
Christian parents love and pray for their children.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Who are you calling "we"? People who don't repent are non-Christians. People who love Christ, repent, do they not?.

So no Christian has ever stubbornly refused to repent, or failed to recognize that their sin is sinful? As I see it, that is a dangerous way of thinking that can lead us to shipwreck our faith.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Rescued One

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So no Christian has ever stubbornly refused to repent, or failed to recognize that their sin is sinful? As I see it, that is a dangerous way of thinking that can lead us to shipwreck our faith.

-CryptoLutheran
I see no reason to pursue our differences. You have a Bible and I have a Bible.
 
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