There is no Rapture

[Diamond7]

Well Jesus already said that, so why would you care

Because Jesus also said he was not Elijah. That is what we call a paradox and we have to be sure there are no contradictions.

 

[Guojing]

Because Jesus also said he was not Elijah. That is what we call a paradox and we have to be sure there are no contradictions.

There was a "if" conditional then. Had Israel accepted Jesus at his first coming, he would be.

No paradox there

 

[Timtofly]

Moses was there at the transfiguration with Elijah, but he was not raptured like Enoch was.

How do you know? No one saw how Moses left the earth.

 

[Diamond7]

How do you know? No one saw how Moses left the earth.

The Bible said he was buryed. "He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day” (Deuteronomy 34:5–6). Enoch was taken alive and did not leave a body behind. Although actually everyone is taken when they die. To be raptured means to be snatched up out of the body to heaven to be with the lord. The pretrib rapture means all who are alive in Christ will be taken before the tribulation period. Because they restrain evil so they have to be removed. If there was a nuclear war and a lot of people died at once then the would not even know that there was a rapture. It is believed that the resurrection is at the end of the 1,000 year reign of christ when we will return and be reunited with our body and life out our life forever here on the Earth.

I think people fight and argue over who, what, when and why. So we need to read the bible and be lead by the Holy Spirit of God and with so many opposing viewpoints we need to be careful. For me those that do not believe in a pretrib rapture most likely well be left behind. If there is a 7 year tribulation period because the scriptura is not real clear on that.

 

[Diamond7]

Well Jesus already said that, so why would you care that John did not make a similar claim?

I care that there appears to be a contradiction but when I check it out it is just a paradox. People give me contradictions all the time but when I check into them there is no contradiction. I am convinced that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

 

[Guojing]

I care that there appears to be a contradiction but when I check it out it is just a paradox. People give me contradictions all the time but when I check into them there is no contradiction. I am convinced that there are no contradictions in the Bible.

Jesus is saying If P then Q.

Since P did not come about, whether Q is true or not does not matter, no contradiction, no paradox.

 

[Diamond7]

no contradiction, no paradox.

In Matthew 11:14, Jesus refers to John the Baptist:

• “And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.”
• Here, Jesus acknowledges the connection between John and the prophetic role of Elijah.

John’s Denial:

• Interestingly, when asked directly, John the Baptist denied being Elijah (John 1:21).
• He understood that he was not the literal Elijah but rather the fulfillment of the prophetic expectation.

 

[Guojing]

In Matthew 11:14, Jesus refers to John the Baptist:

• “And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.”
• Here, Jesus acknowledges the connection between John and the prophetic role of Elijah.

John’s Denial:

• Interestingly, when asked directly, John the Baptist denied being Elijah (John 1:21).
• He understood that he was not the literal Elijah but rather the fulfillment of the prophetic expectation.

I still don't see any paradox.

John does not have perfect knowledge.

PS, you keep selectively quoting me, leaving out the part that explains my reasoning.

 

[Timtofly]

The Bible said he was buryed. "He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor, but no one knows his burial place to this day” (Deuteronomy 34:5–6). Enoch was taken alive and did not leave a body behind. Although actually everyone is taken when they die. To be raptured means to be snatched up out of the body to heaven to be with the lord. The pretrib rapture means all who are alive in Christ will be taken before the tribulation period. Because they restrain evil so they have to be removed. If there was a nuclear war and a lot of people died at once then the would not even know that there was a rapture. It is believed that the resurrection is at the end of the 1,000 year reign of christ when we will return and be reunited with our body and life out our life forever here on the Earth.

I think people fight and argue over who, what, when and why. So we need to read the bible and be lead by the Holy Spirit of God and with so many opposing viewpoints we need to be careful. For me those that do not believe in a pretrib rapture most likely well be left behind. If there is a 7 year tribulation period because the scriptura is not real clear on that.

Moses wrote those words before He walked out into the desert. He told them not to come looking, so he told them he would be buried, not that he was already buried. Moses was punished, unlike Elijah, who was obedient to God. Moses would never have a glorious departure from the earth, like Elijah did. But Moses still could enter Paradise.

Satan never got the body of Moses, which means it never returned to dust. Jude 1:9

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

So, no one knows how Moses left the earth. If Satan had gotten the dead body, like all the other OT redeemed, except for Enoch/Elijah, then there would have been no dispute between when Michael transported Moses to Paradise, and death was to claim Moses' body.

Moses still had a body when he appeared on the mount of Transfiguration, with Elijah. They both would have come from Paradise for that moment. That was prior to even Lazarus coming out of the grave.