The Strong's Deception

[daq]

I got the joke.

I've been working since before you made this post. It's been going slowly; as I've needed to stoke my fire. I have a IR thermometer. On the ceiling, near my wood stove, it's ~80 degrees; but in the far rooms of my house, the floor is ~40 degrees.

I'm having difficulty burning wood fast enough to keep the house warm. I'm slowly losing ground; and tomorrow is another unusually cold day.

The irony of responding to this message is found at where I have advanced in my work until now.


אשה

H800, H801, H802

Ahah, now I understand your "wow".
Stay warm, friend.

 

[HARK!]

אשם

H816, H817. H818

 

[daq]

(staff edit of a quote)
Jeremiah 31:31 KJV
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:31 TS2009 W/Footnotes
31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah,a Footnote: aHeb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17.

Should this be a new covenant or a renewed covenant? This question has critically important implications and ramifications concerning doctrine: for if it is a new covenant that would imply something totally brand new and could be construed to be an entirely new covenant that may have nothing at all to do with the Torah, but if it is a renewed covenant then it rather would have something to do with the Torah in the sense of a renewed understanding of the Torah.

What does Strong's tell us about the word found in this text which is rendered as new in most English translations? The following is the Strong's entry, and the second below it, as far as I can tell, appears to be the original Strong's entry for this word.

Strong's Concordance (#H2319)
chadash: new
Original Word: חָדָשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dawsh')
Definition: new
Strong's Hebrew: 2319

So chadash means "new" according to the Strong's concordance, and that should settle it, right? However, at the bottom of the same link above, we see another entry saying it is from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, where we see that this adjective is from the verb chadash, (Strong's #H2318).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (#H2319)
fresh, new thing
From chadash [#H2318]; new -- fresh, new thing.

Hmmm, since the verb chadash #H2318 is the root maybe we better look at that too just to be sure.

Strong's Concordance (#H2318)
chadash: to renew, repair
Original Word: חָדַשׁ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dash')
Definition: to renew, repair
Strong's Hebrew: 2318

And again at the bottom of the same link above we see an entry which says Strong's Exhaustive Concordance where we find that this verb is the root for #H2319 in Jer 31:31.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (#H2318)
renew, repair
A primitive root; to be new; causatively, to rebuild -- renew, repair.

How can we have a verb that means "to be new"? and then give an explanation of "causatively, to rebuild -- renew, repair"? Does this make any sense? To rebuild, to renew, to repair: yes, these are verbs, but "to be new" is a verb?

Moreover why do we need two different word classification numbers for a verb and its adjective?

Moreover what is the adjective form of the English verb renew? Is it new? (no). While it is true that renewed may be a past tense verb it is also the adjective form of the English verb renew.

Thus it can be used in several ways with essentially the same meaning:

Verb: I will renew the covenant.
Adjective: I will cut a renewed covenant.

1) It is the same word but one form is the verb and the other is the adjective.
2) The English verb renew in adjective form is renewed, not new.
3) I think "The Strong's Deception" is an excellent title for this thread.

 

[HARK!]

Jeremiah 31:31 KJV
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:31 TS2009 W/Footnotes
31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah,a Footnote: aHeb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17.

Should this be a new covenant or a renewed covenant? This question has critically important implications and ramifications concerning doctrine: for if it is a new covenant that would imply something totally brand new and could be construed to be an entirely new covenant that may have nothing at all to do with the Torah, but if it is a renewed covenant then it rather would have something to do with the Torah in the sense of a renewed understanding of the Torah.

What does Strong's tell us about the word found in this text which is rendered as new in most English translations? The following is the Strong's entry, and the second below it, as far as I can tell, appears to be the original Strong's entry for this word.

Strong's Concordance (#H2319)
chadash: new
Original Word: חָדָשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dawsh')
Definition: new
Strong's Hebrew: 2319

So chadash means "new" according to the Strong's concordance, and that should settle it, right? However, at the bottom of the same link above, we see another entry saying it is from the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, where we see that this adjective is from the verb chadash, (Strong's #H2318).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (#H2319)
fresh, new thing
From chadash [#H2318]; new -- fresh, new thing.

Hmmm, since the verb chadash #H2318 is the root maybe we better look at that too just to be sure.

Strong's Concordance (#H2318)
chadash: to renew, repair
Original Word: חָדַשׁ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: chadash
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-dash')
Definition: to renew, repair
Strong's Hebrew: 2318

And again at the bottom of the same link above we see an entry which says Strong's Exhaustive Concordance where we find that this verb is the root for #H2319 in Jer 31:31.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (#H2318)
renew, repair
A primitive root; to be new; causatively, to rebuild -- renew, repair.

How can we have a verb that means "to be new"? and then give an explanation of "causatively, to rebuild -- renew, repair"? Does this make any sense? To rebuild, to renew, to repair: yes, these are verbs, but "to be new" is a verb?

Moreover why do we need two different word classification numbers for a verb and its adjective?

Moreover what is the adjective form of the English verb renew? Is it new? (no). While it is true that renewed may be a past tense verb it is also the adjective form of the English verb renew.

Thus it can be used in several ways with essentially the same meaning:

Verb: I will renew the covenant.
Adjective: I will cut a renewed covenant.

1) It is the same word but one form is the verb and the other is the adjective.
2) The English verb renew in adjective form is renewed, not new.
3) I think "The Strong's Deception" is an excellent title for this thread.

I would question why two Strong's numbers were assigned to this same word to begin with.

The Strong's claim is that a number is assigned to each Hebrew word, not each KJV translation; and even in English renew and renewed are filed under one entry.

Definition of RENEW

to make like new : restore to freshness, vigor, or perfection; to make new spiritually : regenerate; to restore to existence : revive… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

After I complete this study; it will open up more studies, for each word that has been assigned multiple numbers.

 

[HARK!]

אשפ

H825, H826

אשר

H833, H834, H835, H836, H837, H838, H839

את

H852, H853, H854, H855

 

[HARK!]

אתה

H867, H858, H859

אתון

H860, H861

אתנן

H868, H869

 

[HARK!]

באר

H874, H875, H876, H877

באש

H887, H888, H889

בבל

H894, H895

בגד

H898, H899

בד

H905, H906, H907

 

[HARK!]

בדד

H909, H910, H911

בדל

H914, H915

בהן

H931, H932

בוז

H936, H937, H938

בוזי

H940, H941

בול

H944, H945

 

[HARK!]

בור

H952, H953

בזה

H959. H960, H961

I don't think that I mentioned this until now; but I have also been noticing that sometimes the same Strong's number is assigned to different words.

For example in Gen 25:35 בז is rendered as H959; whereas H959 is predominantly reserved for בזה; but H957 is assigned to בז .

 

[HARK!]

בזק

H965. H966

 

[Yahudim]

בור

H952, H953

בזה

H959. H960, H961

I don't think that I mentioned this until now; but I have also been noticing that sometimes the same Strong's number is assigned to different words.

For example in Gen 25:35 בז is rendered as H959; whereas H959 is predominantly reserved for בזה; but H957 is assigned to בז .

I don't understand. Do you mean that the Strong's number in this case, is different based on the translation rather than the original Hebrew? If that is so then it contradicts Dr. Strong's stated purpose in producing the concordance in the first place! Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[visionary]

Our biggest blessing in all this is that the Holy Spirit upon His Word will open up the mind to the truth and it will set this whole man's interpretation problem (tangled mess) free. His Word does not come back ambivelent or ambiguous. But then with every inspiration comes the next step on the narrow path and more to understand. It is being sorted out in God's time and will conintue to lead us forward in faith.

While the thread is about the difficulties encountered for the deeper search in the Word reveal the weakness of the minds of men, it also encourages us to know that the more we untangle the more the lies are exposed and the light of His Glory is revealed. Keep up the good work.

 

[HARK!]

I don't understand. Do you mean that the Strong's number in this case, is different based on the translation rather than the original Hebrew? If that is so then it contradicts Dr. Strong's stated purpose in producing the concordance in the first place! Am I correct in this assumption?

At this time I'm not going to speculate as to why Strong's doesn't adhere its' stated function. I'm simply gathering the facts.

So far we have multiple numbers assigned to the same Hebrew word. We have the same number assigned to multiple Hebrew words; and as I pointed out in Post #36, the Hebrew words aren't necessarily even enumerated in alphabetical order.

This all contradicts the cited source in the OP.

All of the errant English translations associated with these Hebrew words is another matter.

Another troubling matter is that so far I have barely cracked into the words that begin with ב; and so many problems have already been revealed. I'm just skimming through this too; and I have a long way to go. I'm just getting started.

After this portion of the study is complete; I will do a deeper study, one word at a time, as presented throughout scripture. There is no telling what I will find as I take a closer look.

 

[HARK!]

בחן

H974, H975, H976

בטח

H982, H983, H984

בטל

H988, H989

בטן

H990, H991, H992

בין

H995*, H996, H997

Interesting. Why did we jump to yod, and bypass waw?

H995 renders some words under this number with a waw. Strong's Hebrew: 995. בִּין (bin) -- to discern

בינה

Still no waw.

H998, H999

each word that appears in the KJV Bible in alphabetical order

Suuure

 

[Yahudim]

Our biggest blessing in all this is that the Holy Spirit upon His Word will open up the mind to the truth and it will set this whole man's interpretation problem (tangled mess) free. His Word does not come back ambivelent or ambiguous. But then with every inspiration comes the next step on the narrow path and more to understand. It is being sorted out in God's time and will conintue to lead us forward in faith.

While the thread is about the difficulties encountered for the deeper search in the Word reveal the weakness of the minds of men, it also encourages us to know that the more we untangle the more the lies are exposed and the light of His Glory is revealed. Keep up the good work.

So good to see you Vis. You may remember me as talmidim...

 

[HARK!]

בית

H1004, H1005, H1006

 

[HARK!]

בכא

H1056, H1057

בכה

H1058, H1059

 

[Yahudim]

What, only 20 more to go past this one? Is that a safe ב?

 

[HARK!]

What, only 20 more to go past this one? Is that a safe ב?

There are a lot more than 20 ב left. The ג begin at 1341. Then we'll have a ge' (gay') old time.

 

[HARK!]

בכור

H1060, H1061

בכורה

H1062, H1063

In not one listing for H1062, does a waw directly precede the resh.

However in many instances the resh is followed by a taw, instead of a hey, similar to H1064, בכורת.

Now this:

בכר

H1069, H1070, H1071,

Really?

Strong's renders בכרי as found in Gen 49:3 and Ex 4:22 as H1060; but when it comes to the same spelling in Isa 60:6, it renders it as H1070.

This little string of Strong's numbers is such a tangled mess; that I gave up looking for all of the tangles.

בכרי

H1075, H1076

Oh my...my head hurts. I'm taking a break.