The Science of Homosexuality, Pedophilia and Fetish

[No Swansong]

To Swansong
Ah but you did say some are trying to win a debate, besides as this forum is for debate I think some are entitled to be here purely to partake in debate.

But they didn’t disagree on stuff they already knew so as disciples we don’t disagree on what they wrote down.

But this my point, if its about homosexual practice Biblically no one can prove anything other than its error. One cant serve the Lord by doing what the Lord teaches is wrong, Jesus made it quite plain that to love an serve Him is to obey what He teaches (John 14-150 I agree with this.
If we are interested in what our Lord commanded we wont propose homosexual practice.
We cant reason together if the issue is clear cut, all we do is either agree with the Biblical testimony or disagree with it. Hardly a basis for Christian fellowship.

I don't have time to take this point by point right now as I have to leave for a rather urgent Dr.'s appointment. But I leave you with one question. Have you never been wrong? Were you outside of God's grace when you were? Were you unable to fellowship during the time you were wrong?

Did the Lord not teach us to treat everyone with Love (not implying that we should approve of behavior) regardless of whether we agree with them or not. BTW if what you say is true then there will be no one for me to fellowship with as I haven't met anyone ever that I was in total agreement with.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Swansong,

But I leave you with one question. Have you never been wrong?

yes. [/quote] Were you outside of God's grace when you were? [/quote] No, His grace is undeserved favour.

Were you unable to fellowship during the time you were wrong?

No.
Let me ask you a question, have you ever been wrong and if yes, have you ever continued to be wrong despite knowing the truth?

You see the truth is the truth, the grace of God is that we can learn the truth and be changed, not so we can learn it and deny it. Part of the love of Jesus is to tell the gospel and make disciples teaching them to obey everything Jesus taught.

 

[No Swansong]

To Swansong,

yes.

Were you outside of God's grace when you were? [/quote] No, His grace is undeserved favour. No.
Let me ask you a question, have you ever been wrong and if yes, have you ever continued to be wrong despite knowing the truth?

You see the truth is the truth, the grace of God is that we can learn the truth and be changed, not so we can learn it and deny it. Part of the love of Jesus is to tell the gospel and make disciples teaching them to obey everything Jesus taught.[/QUOTE]



You have exactly hit upon the issue. What you know. I haven't met a single on the other side of this issue that "Knows" that homosexual sex is sinful. They may know that this is what be understand but that is not the same as knowing. You write as if these individuals know that homosexual sex is sinful and yet choose to continue in sin. I do not know this to be true.

But back to the most important part of my whole point. Whether we agree with Homosexuals or not is not as important as how we treat them, and everyone else for that matter. We will someday answer for our behavior, not the behavior of our brothers and sisters.

I completely reject the idea that a homosexual cannot be a Christian.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Swansong,

You have exactly hit upon the issue. What you know. I haven't met a single on the other side of this issue that "Knows" that homosexual sex is sinful. They may know that this is what be understand but that is not the same as knowing. You write as if these individuals know that homosexual sex is sinful and yet choose to continue in sin. I do not know this to be true.

But unlike your benchmark which is what some people think my benchmark is that God’s word says it is error and Jesus Christ has impacted my life, that I know.

But back to the most important part of my whole point. Whether we agree with Homosexuals or not is not as important as how we treat them, and everyone else for that matter. We will someday answer for our behavior, not the behavior of our brothers and sisters.

But that’s what Jesus Christ says as well, we will all have to account for what we have done and said.

I completely reject the idea that a homosexual cannot be a Christian.

Any can be a Christian, the homosexual the heterosexual, the adulterer, the paedophile, the thief etc , if they turn to Christ which will cause them to repent of sin.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Swansong,

You have exactly hit upon the issue. What you know. I haven't met a single on the other side of this issue that "Knows" that homosexual sex is sinful. They may know that this is what be understand but that is not the same as knowing. You write as if these individuals know that homosexual sex is sinful and yet choose to continue in sin. I do not know this to be true.

But unlike your benchmark which is what some people think my benchmark is that God’s word says it is error and Jesus Christ has impacted my life, that I know.

But back to the most important part of my whole point. Whether we agree with Homosexuals or not is not as important as how we treat them, and everyone else for that matter. We will someday answer for our behavior, not the behavior of our brothers and sisters.

But that’s what Jesus Christ says as well, we will all have to account for what we have done and said.

I completely reject the idea that a homosexual cannot be a Christian.

Any can be a Christian, the homosexual the heterosexual, the adulterer, the paedophile, the thief etc , if they turn to Christ which will cause them to repent of sin.

 

[No Swansong]

For some reason I can't get my quote function to work so I will simply cut and paste your comments.
You wrote
But unlike your benchmark which is what some people think my benchmark is that God’s word says it is error and Jesus Christ has impacted my life, that I know.

I respond;
My benchmark is what God's word says. Make no mistake I agree that same sex sex is sinful. However I do not presume to know that what I know everyone knows. Nor do I presume that every single sin must be repented of. If one does not know that a particular sin is a sin, then how can they repent of it?

You wrote;
But that’s what Jesus Christ says as well, we will all have to account for what we have done and said.

I respond;
That is what I have been trying to point out we will not answer for our brothers and sisters in Christ however we will answer for treating them uncharitably.

You wrote;
Any can be a Christian, the homosexual the heterosexual, the adulterer, the paedophile, the thief etc , if they turn to Christ which will cause them to repent of sin.

I respond;
Agreed we must all repent but how can one repent of something they do not know to be a sin?

Again I repeat I have never stated that I think same sex sex as being anything other than a sin however it is no greater a sin than any I have ever committed and I compound my own sinfulness if I treat anyone, including the homosexual, in any manner than a loving one.

I have made no comments regarding this as applying to you. In fact you were not on my mind when I started to post. I am addressing those who view this issue simply as a polemic debate to be won at any cost simply to win a debate. Again I state this attitude is sinful no matter who it comes from.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Swansong,
I think I see what you are saying but if the benchmark is the Biblical texts then some not knowing means they dont believe as they can see what the text says.

 

[No Swansong]

Perhaps but that is not my call to make. I think we both would agree that fortunately that call is better left up to the Lord.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Swansong,

Perhaps but that is not my call to make. I think we both would agree that fortunately that call is better left up to the Lord.

Its the Lord's call that He has told us that I have been repeating all along.

 

[No Swansong]

And again my call for charity and civility was not aimed at you.

 

[brightmorningstar]

No problem Swansong, then we agree, and i think the Lord has made it quite clear.