The Science of Homosexuality, Pedophilia and Fetish

Neuron

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Consider this for a moment, if you will.

In psychology researchers use a measure called a "heritability coefficient". The purpose of the HC is to determine the influence genes for a trait. J. Michael Bailey and Richard Pillards studies showed a .5 HC. More specifically they took groups of monozygotic (identical) twins and determined how often both twins were homosexual. It was roughly half the time, whereas dyzoygotic (fraternal) twins only shared the trait 22% of the time and siblings otherwise only 10%. There is a positive correlation to a genetic component.

Using functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) researchers examined the brains of several homosexual pedophiles and a group of homosexuals. The results showed a lot of subcortical ("deep brain") activation consistent with early childhood trauma in the homosexual pedophiles.

The late "supermasochist" Bob Flanagan suffered cystic fibrosis and was expected to die as a child. He was made to stay in hospital covered in a plastic balloon where doctors would have to extract fluid from his lungs. Bob admitted to stimulating himself to distract himself from the pain. Eventually he was made to leave the hospital and slowly began to find more and more pleasure in mutilating himself. Eventually performing infront of an audience.

The human brain is highly plastic and it is unknown at this time what degree it could change. However it is probably the case that any change in mind correlates with a change in the brain. It is possible that Bob Flanagan and others simply learned to fuse pleasure and pain due to unfortunate life circumstances.

It is also probably the case that the "conscious decision" to act was not conscious at all. Benjamin Libet and John-Dylan Haynes demonstrated the ability to predict a persons decision before they were aware of it. Libet measured the readiness potential (RP) of a motor neuron while subjects chose to press a button whenever they felt the urge. Libet's findings showed that the motor neurons RP began 300ms prior to the subjects awareness. Because motor neurons aren't likely to be involved in decision making Haynes wondered if it could be predicted elsewhere in the brain. Haynes et. al. had subject choose either to press a button with their left hand or their right hand whenever they felt the urge. Using fMRI the researchers discovered they could predict the decision up to 10 seconds before the subject was aware of the choice. On average the subjects pushed a button every 30 seconds.

Scientifically speaking it does not seem likely that consciousness has the ability to make decisions and so the physical structure of the human brain is what make decisions. The number of possible permutations of the human brain exceeds the number of fundamental particles in the known universe.

Researchers have discovered that child abuse causes a methylation of the allele expressing corticotropin-releasing hormone which results in a dampened stress response.

It is possible for the physical structure of the human brain to change through a process of Long-Term Potentiation (LTP) obeying all known physical laws. The computational structure of the neo-cortex (neural network) has been synthetically recreated. Artificial Neural Networks (ANNs) can perform cognitive feats such as facial recognition. Researchers have built a silicon retina. One laboratory has started a project to build a cortical column called "Blue Brain".

There is a lot of evidence suggesting that homosexuals, pedophiles, psychopaths, fetishists and so on could not have chosen otherwise.

Brain response to visual sexual stimuli in homosexual pedophiles
pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2186373

Unconscious determinants of free choice (Nature Neuroscience)
psy.uni-muenchen.de/exp/ma/bauer/lehre/Bewusstsein/mainColumnParagraphs/06/document/JDH.pdf
 
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Andreusz

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I would have to say that ultimately the evidence from many Christians, (though not just Christians) that people can be seen to change from what they did to not doing it and the opposite way of acting.

I have never encountered any examples of non-Christian ex-gays. Could you direct me to any information about one?
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Andreusz,
I have never encountered any examples of non-Christian ex-gays. Could you direct me to any information about one?
Not sure I have either, but I can point you to Christian ex-gays as a testimony to what God can do, to how my life has changed in whatever way it needed to. I would say that it isnt so much that Christians change, as we are exchanged, bought at a price, old lives dead and new ones living for Christ and letting His Spirit live within us.
 
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Neuron

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My sister Ashely is not a Christian she is an atheist. She had a Lesbian bout and now is marrying a man. This is because it wasn't about "sexuality" for her it was about comfort. She was born into a culture that caused her to fear men. She was taught by the culture that men might rape her, beat her up and otherwise abuse her. Not surprisingly she settled for abusive relationships before her lesbian phase.

There are different ways people become or are born homosexual. But I don't think the part about unconscious decisions was properly understood. "Conscious Decisions" are a logical impossibility in addition to currently being disproven by scientific enquiry.

If, by chance, people cannot make "conscious decisions" then holding them morally culpable for their behaviour is surely immoral. Is it not?

I guess the issue here is what takes precedence? Should we ignore observable and irrefutable evidence from empirical enquiry for our preexistent moral inclinations or received interpretation of scripture?
 
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Washington

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Should we ignore observable and irrefutable evidence from empirical enquiry for our preexistent moral inclinations or received interpretation of scripture?
Only if it furthers our agenda. Let no one say the facts got in the way of our prejudices.
 
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No Swansong

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Psychology is not an empirical science. In fact is is inherently subjective at least according to some sources.

Indeed this is true, but my question about the original post which I found informative is ..... What does it have to do with the morality of homosexual acts?

Is not the only pertinent question, at least for a Christian, what does God say about Homosexuality?
 
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Kerwin

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It's gotten better. But much of what I posted was Neuroscience anyway which is totally empirical.

I have to disagree with you there since neuroscience is composed of a number of other scientific fields many which are not empirical. The later includes but may not be limited to evolution and biology. My complete ignorance of some of the other fields makes it hard for me to say one way or another but some by the sounds of them such as function and genetics are probably empirical.

I did hear of the twin study which eliminates the possibility that homosexuality is 100% genetic though environmental factors may turn a gene for homosexuality off or on. I doubt that such a gene exists as it would be a negative gene. If it does it would most likely be recessive or possibly co-dominate or perhaps a the result of a gene combination.

If I get you correctly you also advance the idea that homosexuals are indoctrinated in some way which sounds quite plausible though I would think such indoctrination would be unintentional.
 
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No Swansong

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Homosexuality ...nothing. Sodomy ...perhaps.
Thank you for pointing out the broadness or my statement. You are correct I was not referring to sexual orientation I was referring to homosexual acts. Is that not the pertinent question?
 
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No Swansong

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But even further than my last statement, regardless of whether homosexual acts are sinful or not; were we not called upon by our Lord to love one another? While I can see that those who oppose homosexual acts truly believe themselves to be loving, (and no doubt many are) it is very apparent to me that others are simply looking for a fight.
 
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Andreusz

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To Swansong,
I cant see how we could love one another by stealing from them. Similarly I cant see how we an love one another by having homosexual unions with them.

You are being extremely insulting, and that is because you refuse to treat homosexual people as human beings with feelings as good as yours. Well, for your knowledge, we do fall in love, just as intensely as you wonderful straight people. Go read Plato's Symposium, Michelangelo's sonnets, Cavafy...
 
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No Swansong

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To Swansong,
I cant see how we could love one another by stealing from them. Similarly I cant see how we an love one another by having homosexual unions with them. I think the issue is without establishing what is sinful or not or we can't love God in the first place


I am not saying that we cannot speak the truth in love. Indeed this is a must. What I am saying is that some on this board, on both sides of the issue, are not loving but instead simply trying to win a debate. I would point out that one of the people I most admire on this entire site is aware of the fact they we disagree on this subject, yet we get along as brothers should. Unless you are arguing that homosexuals cannot be Christians, I am not about to place such a limit on God, or his graciousness. We all have crosses to bare. We all have our sinfulness to deal with. Loving exchange is one thing, polemic rhetorical hatred is entirely another. (btw I am not accusing you of any of this I am simply pointing out that this occurs here)
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Swansong,
What I am saying is that some on this board, on both sides of the issue, are not loving but instead simply trying to win a debate.
. I don’t think there is a debate to win, one side present the Biblical evidence for the historic apostolic Christian view and the other don’t present any evidence. Hardly a debate or on that can be lost.

I would point out that one of the people I most admire on this entire site is aware of the fact they we disagree on this subject, yet we get along as brothers should.
Actually the disciples, brothers and sisters, of Jesus Christ all had one heart and mind.


Unless you are arguing that homosexuals cannot be Christians,
I am arguing about what the Christian truth is rather than who claims it.

I am not about to place such a limit on God, or his graciousness to assume homosexual practice is ok when God has already told us it isn’t.
 
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No Swansong

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To Swansong,
. I don’t think there is a debate to win, one side present the Biblical evidence for the historic apostolic Christian view and the other don’t present any evidence. Hardly a debate or on that can be lost.

I didn't say that there was a debate that could be won or lost I simply said that the only reason for some here is purely to partake in debate. This attitude, that one must win does exist here. I didn't say it applies to you.

Actually the disciples, brothers and sisters, of Jesus Christ all had one heart and mind.

Sure but that doesn't mean they didn't disagree on very important issues look simply at the Council of Jerusalem. Paul and Peter certainly disagreed on at least one issue, so important it was that they actually called together the Apostles to decide the issue.


I am arguing about what the Christian truth is rather than who claims it.

And that is appropriate and responsible when done in charity I agree completely.
I am not about to place such a limit on God, or his graciousness to assume homosexual practice is ok when God has already told us it isn’t.

I have never said that it is, I simply am addressing how we treat each other during the dialog. The friend that I spoke of earlier knows how I feel about this issue but this friend doesn't feel the need to prove to me that I am wrong nor do I feel the need to prove to him that he is. We have discussed the issue, I know his position, he knows mine. We both know that our positions are well thought out, and derive from a desire to love and serve the Lord. That I think he's wrong on the issue doesn't diminish my love and concern for him. Nor does it diminish the fellowship that I experience every time we communicate.

I am not asking that the issue be ignored, nor am I asking anyone to relinquish their stance. I am simply making a plea that we treat each other with Love as our Lord commanded us. Certainly we can reason together with love. Sometimes on these forums we treat each other as adversaries and this is anti-christ.
 
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brightmorningstar

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To Swansong
I didn't say that there was a debate that could be won or lost I simply said that the only reason for some here is purely to partake in debate.
Ah but you did say some are trying to win a debate, besides as this forum is for debate I think some are entitled to be here purely to partake in debate.


Sure but that doesn't mean they didn't disagree on very important issues look simply at the Council of Jerusalem. Paul and Peter certainly disagreed on at least one issue, so important it was that they actually called together the Apostles to decide the issue.
But they didn’t disagree on stuff they already knew so as disciples we don’t disagree on what they wrote down.


The friend that I spoke of earlier knows how I feel about this issue but this friend doesn't feel the need to prove to me that I am wrong nor do I feel the need to prove to him that he is.
But this my point, if its about homosexual practice Biblically no one can prove anything other than its error.
We both know that our positions are well thought out, and derive from a desire to love and serve the Lord.
One cant serve the Lord by doing what the Lord teaches is wrong, Jesus made it quite plain that to love an serve Him is to obey what He teaches (John 14-150
he's wrong on the issue doesn't diminish my love and concern for him.
I agree with this.

I am not asking that the issue be ignored, nor am I asking anyone to relinquish their stance. I am simply making a plea that we treat each other with Love as our Lord commanded us.
If we are interested in what our Lord commanded we wont propose homosexual practice.

Certainly we can reason together with love. Sometimes on these forums we treat each other as adversaries and this is anti-christ.
We cant reason together if the issue is clear cut, all we do is either agree with the Biblical testimony or disagree with it. Hardly a basis for Christian fellowship.
 
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