The power of God when a preacher admits he was wrong.

[Presbyterian Continuist]

While I absolutely agree with that statement, you do try to hold contemporaries to your standard, with almost every post you make, so it must mean something to you.

What I write here is termed freedom of speech, which we all have a right. You must learn to kick the ball and not the player.

 

[lismore]

This is the state of many in our churches. They are convinced that God heals people on demand, and are blind to the fact that very few people actually get healed, and that all the promises of healing from the healing evangelists are empty, and most sick and disabled people go home from their healing conferences not healed at all. Yet many convince themselves that they are healed when they are not, and cease taking their medication and going back to the doctor. As a result many become critically ill and death often results.

Hello Watchman! I hope you're well. IMHO one reason for the phenomenon you're describing is that those misguided souls who make big empty talk and also the wolves who are fleecing the sheep, quite often nothing seems to be ever done to rein them in. The duty of a shepherd is to protect the sheep from wolves, the elders duty is to protect the congregation from the wolf. If no action is ever taken the sheep-pen will become the target for pests and predators. Even worldly commentators look at some of the televangelists and are shocked.

Take for example a police precint where there are openly corrupt police officers and no action is ever taken. Eventually the public's perception will be that all cops are corrupt and criminals will feel secure to openly carry out their criminal acts. Trust in the law will erode to a low point and the system will breakdown.

In the book of Acts Peter took action against Ananias and Sapphira and everyone was filled with awe. One of the reasons for the supernatural events at that time. God Bless You

 

[brodav9@thicket]

There are testimonies of people who have been healed, but there seems to be a real lack of actual before and after medical reports to validate most of the claims. Most of the healings I have heard about are for headaches, backaches and issues of that kind. But healing of heart conditions and cancer seems to be almost non existent, or hard to prove that it was the medication that achieved the result.

One of the nastiest form of deception has been the healing evangelist who would get a word of knowledge about a person having cancer, being prayed for, and when the patient went back to the doctor, no cancer was found. The truth is that there was no cancer in the first place, and the word of knowledge was fake.

I reckon that if there were any significant healing of terminal cancer or heart disease that was or is validated by before and after xrays and blood tests, those healings would be front page news. Researchers who went and interviewed people who were claimed to be healed, discovered that these people were not healed after all, and some had actually died because after being told they were healed stopped taking their medication and did not go back for further medical checkups.

I was with a particular Charismatic church in Palmerston North NZ over 7 years during the 1970s. During that time we had most of the prominent healing evangelists come holding meetings in our local high school hall, and during the several "transdenominational" conventions held at the local racecourse. All sorts of promises and claims were made about healing. One evangelist was described as being like Kathryn Kuhlman who could tell that someone was healed through a word of knowledge. The problem was that there were no notable reports of anyone actually being healed. In some of those meetings, there was the leg lengthening which looked convincing, but now has been exposed as a fraudulent trick as shown during Todd White's manipulation of a subject's foot to make it appear that the leg had been lengthened but he actually moved the other foot which observers didn't look at. When the process was speeded up, the fraud was clearly seen.

Fraudulent words of knowledge resulting from using social media through an iphone or ipad, or pre-meeting interviews, and even in the case of one evangelist who had a hidden earpiece and his wife transmitting details to it to make it appear that he was getting a word of knowledge, has brought that side of the healing ministry into disrepute. Yet, some of these fraudsters are still doing it!

I have carefully studied all the healing ministries, from Jack Coe, Oral Roberts, A.A. Allen T.L. Osborn, Benny Hinn, Curry Blake, John Wimber, plus all the lesser known ones who visited Palmerston North during the 1970s, and I can't locate any actual verified before and after medical reports that show that cancers, heart conditions, cerebral palsy, spinal injuries, brain injuries, or blindness have actually been healed through these ministries. I have listened to 130 testimonies on a DVD of healings through Bill Subritzky, but these are hearsay, and I don't see any validation through actual medical documents.

When Jesus healed the lame, blind, disabled and palsied people, it was done in the presence of many witnesses who saw without a doubt that the person was instantly and perfectly healed. No doubt about it. Even the Jewish Pharisees who were vehemently opposed to Jesus acknowledged the authenticity of the healing miracles. No hearsay there. So, either Jesus doesn't heal everyone on demand today, or the way the healing evangelists are going about it is fake and just a means to increase their wealth through the offerings of people who believe their empty promises.

 

[brodav9@thicket]

There is no such thing as a healing ministry mentioned in the New Testament. This is why most if not all those who purport to have a healing ministry are unable to do more than talk about healing, and cannot produce actual evidence of any significant healing. A prominent healing "ministry" was asked to produce just five medical reports validating his claims of healing of significant medical issues. He couldn't do it. So, if God chooses not to answer their prayers for healing, it is a foregone conclusion that I choose not to put any confidence in their prayers if I at any time needed healing.

In 1 Cor. 12:9 there are those who have the gift of healing. I had no one but Jesus as a lay in a death bed. Therefore I used faith in the word of God and God raised me up. My dad said someone help him he is trying to kill himself. I was not going to the Dr. only Jesus and he did it all. My question is how can someone preach heresy or gimmicks for money and manifest power from God? apology is okay but how do you manifest power and then apologize.

 

[Aaron112]

In 1 Cor. 12:9 there are those who have the gift of healing. I had no one but Jesus as a lay in a death bed. Therefore I used faith in the word of God and God raised me up. My dad said someone help him he is trying to kill himself. I was not going to the Dr. only Jesus and he did it all. My question is how can someone preach heresy or gimmicks for money and manifest power from God? apology is okay but how do you manifest power and then apologize.

Good view.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Good view.

A great testimony of personal healing. About someone preaching heresy and then apologizing. My view is that if a preacher does something he needs to apologize for, although he professes to manifest the power of God, he probably doesn't.

 

[Aaron112]

I reckon that if there were any significant healing of terminal cancer or heart disease that was or is validated by before and after xrays and blood tests, those healings would be front page news.

Or, because of bribery, greed, mucho money, mucho power, the healings are denied and suppressed, censored , ignored and the characters are treated like Jesus was by His detractors.

 

[John Mullally]

Yep. That's the theory alright. Looking forward to seeing it happen, hopefully in the few years I have left.

Our California church had minister Paul de Jong from New Zealand preach many years ago and I was having trouble getting over a stomach operation, which concerned me; although from appearance I looked healthy. There was a long prayer line at the end of service where Paul placed his hand on peoples heads as they passed by and briefly spoke over them. I was enjoying the presence of the Lord and not thinking about the stomach problem when I came forward, Paul slapped me on the belly and said "you shall live and not die". And I did begin to slowly improve.

Now Paul de Jong is battling recurring melanoma. Please pray.

 

[Danny&Annie&theChristmas]

In the gospel, Luke 19:8, when Zacchaeus repented he returned the money he had swindled.

When Benny Hinn repented of cheating people did he return the money? And has he changed his practices in line with his profession of repentance?

God Bless

Yes. Confession, repentance AND atonement if he really means it.

 

[brodav9@thicket]

Yes. Confession, repentance AND atonement if he really means it.

Very recent Hinn message. He has got worse. Now he says if you only have a small amount of money (even your last dollar) and give it to his ministry and God will multiply it. He used that gimmick which he was repenting of. He said so himself. that he said give 100 get a 1'000. I am still waiting for a reply on what power he is using.

 

[jiminpa]

What I write here is termed freedom of speech, which we all have a right. You must learn to kick the ball and not the player.

You are free to speak. You are even free to be dishonest if you want, since identifying that would be considered a personal attack. I am free to challenge what you post, like I am right now, and that is not kicking the player. However, accusing me of kicking the player every time I disagree with you could be interpreted as an attempt to bully me into silence.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You are free to speak. You are even free to be dishonest if you want, since identifying that would be considered a personal attack. I am free to challenge what you post, like I am right now, and that is not kicking the player. However, accusing me of kicking the player every time I disagree with you could be interpreted as an attempt to bully me into silence.

You are quite free to show me from the Bible to support any challenge you want to make concerning anything I have discussed on this thread. What I have written is about things that are missing from the Bible and practices that were not found in the ministry of the Apostles or in the Early Church.

 

[jiminpa]

You are quite free to show me from the Bible to support any challenge you want to make concerning anything I have discussed on this thread. What I have written is about things that are missing from the Bible and practices that were not found in the ministry of the Apostles or in the Early Church.

So are you saying that any action or speech that is not explicitly in the Bible is invalid?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So are you saying that any action or speech that is not explicitly in the Bible is invalid?

Depends on whether one believes in Sola Scriptura or not.

 

[jiminpa]

Depends on whether one believes in Sola Scriptura or not.

That's a deflection. But it's also off topic, so I'll drop this line of the thread.