The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

[seekingHiswisdom]

I believe this was fulfilled when the temple burned. The key to understanding this is knowing that "Heaven and Earth" referred to the temple complex. Heaven being the inner court, and Earth the outer court. Other aspects of the temple also represented elements of creation. The wash basin for example was called "the sea" and the altar was called "the bosom of the earth". The lamps were referred to as the lights of the fourth day of creation, and represented the known planets, the sun and the moon. The entire design of the temple was a representation of heaven and earth. This is why John the revelator saw a new heaven and a new earth, that being the new temple which is our body.

I highlighted in your reply what I specifically am commenting on.

"I believe this was fulfilled when the temple burned. The key to understanding this is knowing that "Heaven and Earth" referred to the temple complex. Heaven being the inner court, and Earth the outer court."

This certainly is a basically concise understanding of the importance of the temple, however, I always find it bodes well to see what the historians have said on the subject. (If available)

Let's do a little review of things we know, or may know. And how it applied to the temple destruction for
common man of 1st century times.

Remember... Jesus said in Mathew 5:17 - 20 NASB95

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!

19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness far surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

QUESTION; Does that not mean all 613 commandments in the Pentateuch must be followed until some cataclysmic events take place???? This is a question that I am not seeking an answer to, here... but should be one we need to understand in when striving to understand all things 70AD and even 40 years prior on the day of the crucifixion.

Has heaven and earth passed away (Mathew 5:28) and are we free to discount all 613 commandments for sure?

But I digress. And this subject will be better in another forum.

First-Century Jews held Heaven and Earth Was not as we view them today.

They did not always mean “the physical universe” when they spoke of heaven and earth together. In Jewish literature, the Temple was a portal connecting heaven and earth. They called it the “navel of the earth” and the “gateway to heaven” (Jub 8:19; 1 Enoch 26:1). Just as the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11, the Temple connected God’s realm to where humans lived.

A little perusing through the ancient historians shows us Josephus wrote that two parts of the tabernacle were "approachable and open to all '' but one was not. He explained that in so doing Moses "signifies the earth and the sea, since these two are accessible to all; but the third portion he reserved for God alone because heaven is inaccessible to men" .

Further... The VEIL between’ the accessible and inaccessible parts of the Temple was designed to represent the entire material world during Jesus’ day. Josephus and Philo agree that the veil was composed of four materials representing the four elements—earth, water, air, and fire . Heaven was beyond this material world.

IOW... It WAS behind the curtain that was God's presence.

Above comes from the following references:
Josephus' book of Antiquities Ant. 3:181, cf. 3:123
Josephus' book of War 5:212-213
Josephus' book of Antiquities 3:138-144
Philo's book of Quaestiones in Exodum 2:85, cf. Mos 2:88

So looking at the veil (curtain) we are so reminded of the crucifixion.

When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with human hands (Acts 17:24).

Another question for another time. IF God moved out of the temple when the veil was torn... on crucifixion day.... what brought forth the actual destruction of the 70AD temple, which... if we consider to be a prophetic fulfillment...
would not have been needed as God was no longer there.... and the devise that bound Him to earth and the people
was no longer used?

IOW... did the Romans feel they were destroying the tie between the Jews and God? Or was it strictly hatred of the Jews? Retribution for their rebellion?

Or could it be simply that as mentioned by Josephus' eye witness account (see below)

Such a fascinating subject.... A part of our history that most churches avoid like the plague....

I shall close with the following... just for info .... All bolding and emphasis is mine.

Josephus' account as appears in: Cornfield, Gaalya ed., Josephus, The Jewish War (1982); Duruy, Victor, History of Rome vol. V (1883).

The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

An Eyewitness account of the Roman assault on Jerusalem.

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com

"The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD," EyeWitness to History, www.eyewitnesstohistory.com (2005)

​

In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem. The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism. In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory. The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada. "...the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy." Our only first-hand account of the Roman assault on the Temple comes from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius. Josephus was a former leader of the Jewish Revolt who had surrendered to the Romans and had won favor from Vespasian. In gratitude, Josephus took on Vespasian's family name - Flavius - as his own. We join his account as the Romans fight their way into the inner sanctum of the Temple: "...the rebels shortly after attacked the Romans again, and a clash followed between the guards of the sanctuary and the troops who were putting out the fire inside the inner court; the latter routed the Jews and followed in hot pursuit right up to the Temple itself. Then one of the soldiers, without awaiting any orders and with no dread of so momentous a deed, but urged on by some supernatural force, snatched a blazing piece of wood and, climbing on another soldier's back, hurled the flaming brand through a low golden window that gave access, on the north side, to the rooms that surrounded the sanctuary. As the flames shot up, the Jews let out a shout of dismay that matched the tragedy; they flocked to the rescue, with no thought of sparing their lives or husbanding their strength; for the sacred structure that they had constantly guarded with such devotion was vanishing before their very eyes. ...No exhortation or threat could now restrain the impetuosity of the legions; for passion was in supreme command. Crowded together around the entrances, many were trampled down by their companions; others, stumbling on the smoldering and smoked-filled ruins of the porticoes, died as miserably as the defeated. As they drew closer to the Temple, they pretended not even to hear Caesar's orders, but urged the men in front to throw in more firebrands. The rebels were powerless to help; carnage and flight spread throughout. Most of the slain were peaceful citizens, weak and unarmed, and they were butchered where they were caught. The heap of corpses mounted higher and higher about the altar; a stream of blood flowed down the Temple's steps, and the bodies of those slain at the top slipped to the bottom. When Caesar failed to restrain the fury of his frenzied soldiers, and the fire could not be checked, he entered the building with his generals and looked at the holy place of the sanctuary and all its furnishings, which exceeded by far the accounts current in foreign lands and fully justified their splendid repute in our own. As the flames had not yet penetrated to the inner sanctum, but were consuming the chambers that surrounded the sanctuary, Titus assumed correctly that there was still time to save the structure; he ran out and by personal appeals he endeavored to persuade his men to put out the fire, instructing Liberalius, a centurion of his bodyguard of lancers, to club any of the men who disobeyed his orders. But their respect for Caesar and their fear of the centurion's staff who was trying to check them were overpowered by their rage, their detestation of the Jews, and an utterly uncontrolled lust for battle. Most of them were spurred on, moreover, by the expectation of loot, convinced that the interior was full of money and dazzled by observing that everything around them was made of gold. But they were forestalled by one of those who had entered into the building, and who, when Caesar dashed out to restrain the troops, pushed a firebrand, in the darkness, into the hinges of the gate Then, when the flames suddenly shot up from the interior, Caesar and his generals withdrew, and no one was left to prevent those outside from kindling the blaze. Thus, in defiance of Caesar's wishes, the Temple was set on fire. While the Temple was ablaze, the attackers plundered it, and countless people who were caught by them were slaughtered. There was no pity for age and no regard was accorded rank; children and old men, laymen and priests, alike were butchered; every class was pursued and crushed in the grip of war, whether they cried out for mercy or offered resistance. Through the roar of the flames streaming far and wide, the groans of the falling victims were heard; such was the height of the hill and the magnitude of the blazing pile that the entire city seemed to be ablaze; and the noise - nothing more deafening and frightening could be imagined There were the war cries of the Roman legions as they swept onwards en masse, the yells of the rebels encircled by fire and sword, the panic of the people who, cut off above, fled into the arms of the enemy, and their shrieks as they met their fate. The cries on the hill blended with those of the multitudes in the city below; and now many people who were exhausted and tongue-tied as a result of hunger, when they beheld the Temple on fire, found strength once more to lament and wail. Peraea and the surrounding hills, added their echoes to the deafening din. But more horrifying than the din were the sufferings. The Temple Mount, everywhere enveloped in flames, seemed to be boiling over from its base; yet the blood seemed more abundant than the flames and the numbers of the slain greater than those of the slayers. The soldiers climbed over heaps of bodies as they chased the fugitives."

 

[William Lefranc]

I agree with you 100%. You are on the right track. Heaven and earth symbolize the old covenant while the new heaven and earth, the new covenant that will never, ever end. The majority looks to the future, while God wants to speak to us now right where we are.

 

[William Lefranc]

I highlighted your question above. Yes, there is another harvest coming. A third one at the close of fallen humanity's existence on this planet. It is described in the Bible by the OT symbolism of the Feast of Tabernacles with that month's Day of Atonement, and a year of Jubilee when all debts were cancelled and the people "returned to their possession".

That Feast of Tabernacles was the third harvest celebration in Israel at the close of their agricultural year in the seventh month. The first harvest was the "First-fruits" barley harvest at Passover, which symbolized Christ the First-fruits and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints rising bodily from the grave that same day. The second harvest was the wheat harvest celebrated at Pentecost, 50 days later. This symbolized the AD 70 harvest. Then we have Zechariah 14:16-19 which mentions only the last Feast of Tabernacles celebration. This feast was to be remembered in years following the fulfillment of his prophesied siege of Judah and Jerusalem in AD 70. This will be the third "harvest" at the close of fallen mankind's history on this planet; a harvest that we are anticipating in our distant future. We are forbidden on this website to posit a date for this, but there is one.

The OT is dead in the sense that none of their prophecies/shadows, etc., are worthy to consider anymore because they have already been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. What we need to know is something much deeper and much better than each one of us must have to experience for ourselves. We are inside the Trinity-Love, that Jesus made it possible in His incarnation. We are now united to God and sitting in heavenly places in Christ (Eph. 2:6, John 14:20). This is not about theory, but a new reality of great expectation for every believer: "It is finished" (Jn 19:30).

Go into the secret place and enter into His presence because LOVE is in the air. You are loved and are now part of the Trinity Family. The Father's love awaits those who are in Christ to come to Him to celebrate the divine union.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The OT is dead in the sense that none of their prophecies/shadows, etc., are worthy to consider anymore because they have already been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. What we need to know is something much deeper and much better than each one of us must have to experience for ourselves. We are inside the Trinity-Love, that Jesus made it possible in His incarnation. We are now united to God and sitting in heavenly places in Christ (Eph. 2:6, John 14:20). This is not about theory, but a new reality of great expectation for every believer: "It is finished" (Jn 19:30).

Go into the secret place and enter into His presence because LOVE is in the air. You are loved and are now part of the Trinity Family. The Father's love awaits those who are in Christ to come to Him to celebrate the divine union.

I would hardly consider the OT to be "dead" and therefore not worthy of consideration anymore. The purpose of the OT is written in Romans 15:4. "For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." To see any scripture promises or prophesies fulfilled is not a reason to quit considering them. Anything fulfilled by God bolsters our faith and gives comfort and hope for us presently when we think on those past things.

 

[ralliann]

I would hardly consider the OT to be "dead" and therefore not worthy of consideration anymore.

I thought the same thing. Prophecy was fulfilled and continues to be fulfilled.

The purpose of the OT is written in Romans 15:4. "For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." To see any scripture promises or prophesies fulfilled is not a reason to quit considering them. Anything fulfilled by God bolsters our faith and gives comfort and hope for us presently when we think on those past things.

Each person that comes to faith is prophetic fulfilment no different than it was with the very apostles themselves. It lives on in each of us..

 

[ewq1938]

Please advise.

I have not found this anywhere.

This is the "partial preterist "safe house"

What is meant by safe house please?

I have been working 3 days on a reply to a post that might lead someone to feel I am not 100% supportive of either partial or full preterism.

I keep deleting then going back for a redo.

So can someone please tell me the what is meant for those forums that say "safe house"?

Thank you,

Blessings

R

A safehouse is a place where no disagreements on the official theology of said safe house is allowed. This is a safe house for Partial Preterism which means no promotion of other views and no disagreeing with PP beliefs.

 

[William Lefranc]

I would hardly consider the OT to be "dead" and therefore not worthy of consideration anymore. The purpose of the OT is written in Romans 15:4. "For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." To see any scripture promises or prophesies fulfilled is not a reason to quit considering them. Anything fulfilled by God bolsters our faith and gives comfort and hope for us presently when we think on those past things.

I said dead in reference to prophecies that have already been fulfilled. I read the OT on an ongoing basis to learn from the mistakes (sins) the ex-covenant people made. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. If that is the case, I apologize.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Guys, there is no way the new heaven and new earth prophecies were fulfilled at the end of the first covenant age. Things not only got much worse for true believers after Christ came. They actually got worse for the whole world. The new heaven and new earth have very specific prophecies attached to them.



Isaiah 65:17For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. 18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy and its people to be a delight. 19I will rejoice in Jerusalem and take delight in My people. The sounds of weeping and crying will no longer be heard in her. 20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days, or an old man fail to live out his years. For the youth will die at a hundred years, and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. 21They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit, nor plant for others to eat. For as is the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, and My chosen ones will fully enjoy the work of their hands. 23They will not labor in vain or bear children doomed to disaster;



These scriptures like dozens of chapters like them are speaking of things like actual property rights. Of not being conquered by despotic world powers. Of average life spans doubling and tripling and child mortality rates doing a nose dive. They are speaking about the end of legal slavery and despotic government. When does the Bible's prophecy say these things, things we generally think of as normal right now in the developed world would happen? Again the Bibles prophecy is hyper specific. At the end of the age of the four gentile empires prophesied about in Daniel and Revelation. From 597 BC when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea to 1453 AD when what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333 AD, Constantinople was conquered and the last Roman emperor killed.
It just BLOWS MY MIND that this age of the four gentile empires, actually Jesus called it the Age of the Gentiles is not universally recognized as a specific age by all Christians everywhere. Especially in light of the FACT that the Bible, (illegally) made it into the hands of the General public for the first time in human history immediately following that age and the peoples who possessed and read Bibles founded, are maintaining and growing the free world. A world in which those prophecies above and the 100 chapters like it are coming to pass.





Isaiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. 19The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20For the terrible one is brought to nothing, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:



Those "terrible ones" are kings and emperors, dictators and world conquerors. They ruled the world in perpetuity until...people began to get the book to read for themselves. IT empowered them to win the promise of God of a free world where the earthly promises of God made to a hundred generations of saints, unfulfilled in their generations could finally begin to come to pass. But the battle, the process continues.

 

[Hammster]

The new heaven and new earth prophecies are currently being fulfilled. He making all things new.

 

[William Lefranc]

Guys, there is no way the new heaven and new earth prophecies were fulfilled at the end of the first covenant age. Things not only got much worse for true believers after Christ came. They actually got worse for the whole world. The new heaven and new earth have very specific prophecies attached to them.



Isaiah 65:17For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. 18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy and its people to be a delight. 19I will rejoice in Jerusalem and take delight in My people. The sounds of weeping and crying will no longer be heard in her. 20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days, or an old man fail to live out his years. For the youth will die at a hundred years, and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. 21They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit, nor plant for others to eat. For as is the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, and My chosen ones will fully enjoy the work of their hands. 23They will not labor in vain or bear children doomed to disaster;



These scriptures like dozens of chapters like them are speaking of things like actual property rights. Of not being conquered by despotic world powers. Of average life spans doubling and tripling and child mortality rates doing a nose dive. They are speaking about the end of legal slavery and despotic government. When does the Bible's prophecy say these things, things we generally think of as normal right now in the developed world would happen? Again the Bibles prophecy is hyper specific. At the end of the age of the four gentile empires prophesied about in Daniel and Revelation. From 597 BC when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea to 1453 AD when what had been the capitol of the Roman Empire since 333 AD, Constantinople was conquered and the last Roman emperor killed.
It just BLOWS MY MIND that this age of the four gentile empires, actually Jesus called it the Age of the Gentiles is not universally recognized as a specific age by all Christians everywhere. Especially in light of the FACT that the Bible, (illegally) made it into the hands of the General public for the first time in human history immediately following that age and the peoples who possessed and read Bibles founded, are maintaining and growing the free world. A world in which those prophecies above and the 100 chapters like it are coming to pass.





Isaiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. 19The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20For the terrible one is brought to nothing, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:



Those "terrible ones" are kings and emperors, dictators and world conquerors. They ruled the world in perpetuity until...people began to get the book to read for themselves. IT empowered them to win the promise of God of a free world where the earthly promises of God made to a hundred generations of saints, unfulfilled in their generations could finally begin to come to pass. But the battle, the process continues.

New heavens and a new earth cannot be taken literally. Hebraic understanding simply meant the eternal new covenant that has been sealed with the coming of the Spirit. When Yeshua referred that heavens and earth will not pass away until the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (Mat. 5:18), He was referring to the old covenant.

 

[ralliann]

New heavens and a new earth cannot be taken literally. Hebraic understanding simply meant the eternal new covenant that has been sealed with the coming of the Spirit. When Yeshua referred that heavens and earth will not pass away until the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (Mat. 5:18), He was referring to the old covenant.

The law includes all the promises spoken to all men.

 

[eclipsenow]

Great sermon about the "Man of lawlessness" from a Sydney Anglican Amil 'idealist' point of view, which is fairly similar to Partial Preterist (but sees the Last Days as the period between Jesus Resurrection and Return.)

 

[smittymatt]

Did Ezekiel 38+39 happen already and if so when?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Did Ezekiel 38+39 happen already and if so when?

Yes, it already happened. Gog's battle was to be a battle on the mountains of Israel in Jerusalem, when "every man's sword shall be against his brother." (Ezekiel 39:21). This was going to be a CIVIL WAR, with Israelite fighting against Israelite. This happened with the Zealot factions fighting against one another in Jerusalem, right up until the time when Titus showed up in the spring of AD 70. The different Zealot factions finally united their separate armies at that point to confront their common enemy, the Romans.

The Zealot leader with the largest army at his command was Simon bar Giora, with his multi-national followers numbering some 40,000. In AD 69, after scavenging the Judean countryside and Idumea for supplies, Simon bar Giora finally arrived with his army at the gates of Jerusalem, intending to force his fellow-Zealot leaders into submitting to his leadership in the city. For about a year he became Jerusalem's tyrannical commander, holding the other opposing Zealot factions at bay, until Rome's army came in early AD 70. At the close of that Roman assault, Simon's forces were decimated, and he was captured and taken back to Rome for appearing in the Roman triumph procession as the conquered "king" of Jerusalem.

It took 7 months for Israel to send out "undertakers" to gather all the human remains resulting from those years of fighting and bury them in the Jordan Valley at the top of the Dead Sea. And for 7 years after AD 70, the leftover wooden weaponry was used for kindling. That was because every tree within a ten-mile radius of Jerusalem had been chopped down to use in the siege equipment and for constructing the wall that had completely encircled the city of Jerusalem, as Christ had predicted for Jerusalem back in Luke 19:43-44. "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

 

[parousia70]

Did Ezekiel 38+39 happen already and if so when?

Unless one chooses to abandon a literalist approach to this, one MUST conclude this is a battle prophesied to be fought to the end on horseback, using bows, arrows, javelins, spears, swords and shields.

Only when one abandons a literalist approach to this passage, can one come to any other conclusion.

Therefore, unless the literalist is prepared to assert this battle takes place in a post apocalyptic world where current military technologies have somehow been completely dismantled, rendered unavailable and/or totally useless, the literalist is forced to conclude this was a battle that took place in antiquity.

Of course, the non literalist is free to bend and twist bows and arrows into machine guns, horses into tanks, and chariots into fighter jets, and there is nothing stopping him from employing his non literal approach to this or any passage.

He can then make this passage mean anything he wants.

 

[Ephesians321]

I am a full preterist but most English translations miss the mark with Isaiah 51:16

1) And I have put My words in your mouth;
I have covered you with the shadow of My hand,

2) That I may plant the heavens,
Lay the foundations of the earth,

3) And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’ ” New King James Version

Be sure your English translated Bible does not goof up this important preterist passage LQQKS @ NIV:

1) I have put my words in your mouth and covered you with the shadow of my hand—

2) I who set the heavens in place, who laid the foundations of the earth,

3) and who say to Zion, 'You are my people. ' ”

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I put this on Twitter.
From the time of Moses on there are four ages the Bible talks about. It is not rocket science but the way it is obscured from the view of modern Christianity maybe says otherwise.

1. Old Covenant age: The age God pretty much exclusively operated his kingdom through Ancient Israel. Used it to write his word for us, bring the messiah, and made it the Normandy beach head for his long-planned invasion of planet earth by his invisible kingdom. It ended in 70 AD. Mat 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, most of the apostles’ letters plus about a chapter of Revelation and other OT end time prophecies are about this.

2. Second Covenant age. When Jesus came and it was time to invade planet earth with his kingdom through the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It has no prophesied end.

3. The age of the four gentile empires. EXPLICITLY prophesied about in Daniel chapters 2&7 and Revelation. Started in 597 BC when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea. Ended in 1453 AD when the Roman Empire fell. It has its own body of end time prophecy. Jesus called this the age of the gentiles where both the natural city of Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem, God’s people of all nations would be trampled underfoot by the heathen. Really an age of oppression everywhere of real believers who were mostly underground. I have to mention that IT BLOWS MY MIND that this is not universally recognized as a specific age by all Christian teaching. But it is what it is.

4. Finally, the promised age. The time it was prophesied to come was when the Roman empire ended in 1453 AD. It has around 100 chapters of prophecy and promise regarding it. Those chapters of prophecy are to be the focus of our faith in this present age that also has no prophesied end. They are prophecies of billions coming to Christ and a growing free world where all the earthly promises of God made to a hundred generations of saints, unfulfilled in their generations, could finally start coming to pass in this growing free world pioneered by Christians. Those earthly promises could not be fulfilled in that age of oppression. Things got even worse for true believers once Jesus came, not better like they are now for 100’s of millions. The catalyst that brought this about was the Bible (illegally) making its way into the hands of the general public which among many other things empowered them to start winning the wars of extermination against them. That started to happen immediately after the fall of the 4th empire, What a fight it has been over this last 570 years.

Here is the timeline on this. Daniel 7 prophesies about 10 emperors of the Roman Empire, then an 11th who makes war of the saints and overcomes them for a time, two times and a half time. This number is repeated 5 times concerning the Roman Empire in the book of Revelation 13:5, 12:6,14 &11:1,3 as 1260, 42 months and times, two times and a half time. Turns out it is the number of years from the beginning of this 11th emperors reign till the end of the empire. Simply subtract 1260 years from 1453 AD and you get 193 AD. The beginning of the reign of Septimius Severus who fulfilled what Daniel 7 says about him precisely. That tells you who the ten emperors were that preceded him. But you can also start from 597 BC to see this.

In Revelation we have a prophecy of the Roman Empire splitting into an eastern and western branch, It is illustrated as a lamb with two horns. The two horns illustrate the split. The lamb illustrates the empires claims of Christianity, and it speaking the words of the dragon illustrating the devil is self explanatory. It has an infamous number. 666. That was the number of years from the beginning of the age of the four gentile empires when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea 597 AD, until Titus the prince of Daniel 9:26-27 destroys Jerusalem in 70 AD. There is no year -0-. making it 666 years. The next ten emperors after Titus are the same ten in Daniel and Revelation. The Bible is God's supernatural book. You cannot fake these kinds of numbers thousands of years in advance and come within 100's of years, much less the exact years. But then to tell us of a growing free world that never existed before and the billions coming to Christ. Wow!

https://x.com/wordservicedan/status/1722083116792295682?s=46&t=nnSGprL1nEyiTBHjtIRrkA

 

[eclipsenow]

The age of the four gentile empires. EXPLICITLY prophesied about in Daniel chapters 2&7 and Revelation. Started in 597 BC when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea. Ended in 1453 AD when the Roman Empire fell. It has its own body of end time prophecy. Jesus called this the age of the gentiles where both the natural city of Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem, God’s people of all nations would be trampled underfoot by the heathen. Really an age of oppression everywhere of real believers who were mostly underground. I have to mention that IT BLOWS MY MIND that this is not universally recognized as a specific age by all Christian teaching. But it is what it is.

I have no idea why it blows your mind that this is not universally recognised as I've never even HEARD of it in the first place!
THE BEASTS OF DANIEL


Dan 7:4 “The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it.” I learned about these in High School art many decades ago. The Lamassu were depicted as Winged Bulls by the Assyrians then as Winged Lions by the Babylonians! Daniel was about the 4 ancient empires leading up to Rome and Jesus. RSB Commentary on this verse reads: “The “lion” with “eagle’s wings” is an appropriate symbol for the Babylonian Empire (cf. Jer. 50:44; Ezek. 17:3, 12). Winged lions with human faces were common in Babylonian art and were placed at the entrances of important public buildings. The wings were plucked off. Perhaps this is a reference to Nebuchadnezzar’s humiliation and later restoration after a seven-year period of insanity (ch. 4).” Dan 7:4 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway


Cast from the original in Iraq, this is one of a pair of five-legged lamassu with lion's feet in Berlin

More here: Lamassu - Wikipedia


Dan 7:5 "And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'” The The RSB Commentary says “ . . . like a bear. The Medo-Persian kingdom is symbolized as a “beast” with a voracious appetite. The raised side may represent the superior status of Persia, and the “three ribs” likely represent Persia’s conquests over Lydia, (546 b.c.), Babylon (539 b.c.), and Egypt (525 b.c.). Dan 7:5 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway


Dan 7:6 “one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.” The RSB Commentary says: “7:6 another, like a leopard. The Greek Empire is symbolized by the “leopard,” known for its quickness. Alexander the Great (356–323 b.c.) conquered the Persian Empire with great speed. Alexander died suddenly at age thirty-three, and the empire he established was divided into four parts (Macedonia under Cassander, Thrace and Asia Minor under Lysimachus, Syria under Seleucus, and Egypt under Ptolemy).”


Daniel 7:7 “here before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.” The RSB Commentary says: “This unidentified “beast” symbolizes Rome, the kingdom that ultimately assimilated the various parts of the divided Greek kingdom. it had ten horns. The “ten horns” symbolize ten kings or kingdoms associated with the Roman Empire (v. 24).” Dan 7:7 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway


WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?


These are ancient kingdoms, but then the Ancient of Days welcomes the Son of Man into his throne room after a great conquest. What is this conquest? Jesus rising from the dead. Indeed, that’s how he talks about his upcoming death in Matt 24 - going on the clouds before the Ancient of Days. In the cross all God’s enemies ARE judged - so that we might be forgiven. It’s also a warning and display of God’s wrath against those who refuse his freely offered forgiveness. So God's kingdom DOES arrive during the time of Rome. It really does! Unless one is blind to Jesus "My kingdom is not of this world" and all the references to the church as God's kingdom, it really does arrive then! Because it's OBVIOUS that these kingdoms were historical kingdoms, not future kingdoms. The vision was referring to kingdoms that all arrive before the gospel. Before Jesus ascends into heaven he says “All authority on heaven and earth has been given to me…” and then Acts shows God’s kingdom growing throughout the world - fulfilling in “eschatological tension” Daniel 7:27

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Not sure what you mean by your comment. Every basic Bible commentary understands who the four empires are because the Bible tells you that.
What they seem to miss is that it is a specific age, beginning to end. As far as Preterism goes. You don’t just get to ignore it and chop the age in half and declare it was all fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem. It was certainly not.

 

[eclipsenow]

Not sure what you mean by your comment. Every basic Bible commentary understands who the four empires are because the Bible tells you that.
What they seem to miss is that it is a specific age, beginning to end. As far as Preterism goes. You don’t just get to ignore it and chop the age in half and declare it was all fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem. It was certainly not.

Assertions are one thing, but compelling arguments require logically placed and coherent and relevant information.