The Many Faces of Seventh-day Adventism

Bourbaki

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I believe that there are only seven spiritual factions in the Seventh-day Adventist church and that the paper The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is inspired. NightEternal disagrees. He has divided the Adventist church into 8 distinct factions and claims there are other significant divisions in our church. Who is right? Does Seventh-day Adventism have 8 or more faces or only 7 faces?

LIBERAL ADVENTISTS: This group is mostly centralized in southern California, but they can be found almost anywhere in the world. These are Adventists who have accepted the liberal Christian concepts where just about anything goes. Do not hold to literal interpretations of Scripture from Genesis through the Gospels as well as the remainder of the New Testament. Scripture is regarded as a collection of myths or stories and historical exaggerations used to teach moral lessons. Some may hold other Gnostic ancient books as on the same level of importance as the Bible. They do not believe in the literal creation account, world-wide flood, or miracles, including the resurrection of Jesus. Many have accepted evolution in some form into thier belief systems. Beliefs can range from no after-life to Universalism. Homosexuality is accepted as another lifestyle alternative and impulse that God created people with. Ellen White means nothing to them and they have all but discarded most of the distinctive fundamentals as well as orthodox Christian fundamentals. They are often 'cultural' Adventists who still enjoy the oppourtunity to discuss with others philosophical ideas concerning the Sabbath. They may enjoy church services of various kinds or none at all, from high church to celebrationn services. Will often call themselves Christian Agnostics or Agnostic Christians. In fact, the only SDA feature many liberal Adventists have retained is the Sabbath. Almost all attend movies of any sort, wear jewelry, eat meat, drink coffee and caffeinated pops, some partake of unclean foods, many drink alcoholic wine, especially in the areas of California where vineyards are found. Women's ordination has never been a question and the SCC implemented it years ago against the official stand of the conference.

Key Adventist Figures: Steve Daily

PROGRESSIVE ADVENTISTS: Highly regard science, logic, reason and the historical-critical method. Will adopt any modern means of Biblical interpretation available. Want to do away with many of the fundamentals, especially the IJ/1844/Heavenly sanctuary doctrines. Believe Ellen White is a woman of her times whose works may contain inspirational material that may be used in a pastoral way. Do not believe she has doctrinal authourity. Some hold to a literal creation account, world-wide flood and miracles. Others see the Genesis story as non-literal and consider other methods of creation possible. The post-modern movement can also be traced to this group. In understanding post-modern philosophy, they desire to have the church be relevant in the present time and do not regard the history and legacy of the Adventist pioneers as the embodiment of religious truth. Some have adopted the views of the moral influence/larger view Adventists and rejected penal, legal atonemt. Others hold to such atonement theories as Christus Victor, Federal Head and Recapitulation. There may be an amalgam of several atonement theories. A credo would probably be reason over tradition. Spreading like wildfire in many European countries.

Key Adventist Figures: Riendeer Bruinsma, Alden Thompson, Richard Rice, Fritz Guy, John McLarty (Adventist Today), Spectrum Magazine

MORAL INFLUENCE/LARGER VIEW ADVENTISTS: Also found mostly in Southern California/Loma Linda area, this group denies that God will destroy the wicked in the end. They believe that sin itself will consume them without any intervention on God's part. Absolutely deny legal/forensic/penal atonement. Heavy emphasis on the love and mercy of Christ to the exclusion of His anger and justice. Revere Ellen White, but they only pick and choose that which reflects thier unique views. Heavily influenced by the views of Peter Abelard. You can find many of them on the website Heavenly Sanctuary.

Key Figures: Graham Maxwell (Pine Knoll), Dan Smith, Ty Gibson (Light Bearers), Michael Klute.

EVANGELICAL ADVENTISTS: Champions of Reformation justification by faith and the closest segment to the positions of Luther and the reformers. Bitterly fight against sinless perfection/final generation theology and the belief in the sinful nature of Christ. Consider both full-blown heresy. The most user-friendly Adventism and the one subgroup that presents the most acceptable Adventist face to mainline Protestantism. Believe the atonement was completed at the cross. Stand firmly behind Questions On Doctrine as representative of balanced Adventist thought. Have realistic views of inspiration and completely reject verbal inspiration for both the Bible and Ellen White. Ardent holders to thought inspiration. Ellen White highly regarded, but do not believe she has doctrinal authourity and believe she is subject to the New Testament apostles. Some Evangelical Adventists have abandoned EGW, but not all. Completely reject traditional understanding of the IJ as detrimental to assurance of salvation. Hold to pre-Advent judgment where the salvation of God's people is not under question. Very firm and uncompromising in thier opposition to Rome. Worship services are predominately contemporary with CCM as well as heavily influenced by Willow Creek seeker-services.

Key Figures: George Knight, Graeme Bradford, Hans LaRondelle, H.M.S. Richards Sr. (Voice Of Prophecy), Raymond Cottrell, Desmond Ford (Good News Unlimited), Edward Heppenstall, Frank Phillips

MODERATE ADVENTISTS: The largest subgroup by far, this constitutes the majority in the pews. Standard Adventist beliefs, hold to the fundamentals. Avoids either extreme and and tries to be balanced. High regard for Ellen white but do not hold to verbal inspiration nor elevate her above the Bible. Mainline believers who support official church mission ardently. Stay very close to offical GC policy, mandate and standard Adventist worldview.

Key Figures: Mark Finley, Dwight Nelson, Keavin Hayden, Marvin Moore, Roy Adams, Ed Christian, Morris Venden, Jack Sequeira (Vineyard Ministries), Shawn Boonstra (It Is Written), Steven Mosley, Steve Wohlberg, Lonnie Melashenko (Voice Of Prophecy), George Vandeman (Voice Of Prophecy)

CONSERVATIVE/TRADITIONAL ADVENTISTS: Close to moderate Adventists, but with a little more lean to the right. Bitterly oppose women's ordination, CCM, meat-eating, justification by faith as taught by Luther. Very high regard for Ellen White, borderline verbal inspirationists. Revere the law and the Ten Commandments and have sinless perfection tendencies. Many are heavily involved in Jesuit/Catholic/Masonic conspiracy theories. Staunch defenders of the 28 fundamentals and lovers of pioneer, 1800's style Adventism. Major representation in third world countries such as Africa and South America.

Key Figures: William Johnsson, Cifford Goldstein, Doug Batchelor (Amazing Facts), Sam Bacchiocchi (Biblical Perspectives), Sam Koranteng Pipim, Herbert Douglass, Ed Reid, Kenneth Cox, Richard O'Ffill (Revival Sermons), Danny Shelton (3 ABN), Walter Veith (Amazing Discoveries), Jan Marcussen, David Asscherick, Leo Schriven, Bill Tucker (The Quiet Hour), Robert Weiland and Donald Short (The 1888 Message Committee), C.D. Brooks

ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE/TRADITIONAL ADVENTISTS: Historical Adventists who represent the far right. Believe in the sinful nature of Christ, righteousness by works, have a hatred for the Reformation gospel. Sinless perfectionists who believe Christ merely set the example we can follow until we reach the condition of Adam before the fall-all before glorification, which they believe only changes the physical and nothing else. Bitterly oppose Questions On Doctrine, consider it the most hated book ever published in Adventism. Heavy emphasis on IJ, traditional style and making oneself worthy to pass inspection by Jesus. Strict diet reform emphasis, all are vegetarian, most are vegan. Borderline deificaiton of Ellen white, verbal inspirationist leanings. Most regard EGW as equal to the Bible in authourity and the final say in all matters not addressed in Scripture. Many can be found on such websites as Revival Sermons, Great Controversy, Adventist Affirm, SDA Defend, Temcat's House

Key Figures: M.L. Andreason, Kevin Paulson, Larry Kirkpatrick, Joe Crews, Vance farrell, Dennis Priebe, Stephen Lewis

EXTREMIST ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE TRADITIONAL ADVENTISTS/FFSHOOTS/INDEPENDENT MINISTRIES: About as far right you can go in Adventism. The most disturbing, frightening Adventism available. Ultra-strict, unyeilding dress reform, diet reform, mind reform, any reform you can think of. Hyper-vegan, believe diet is a salvation issue and meat-eaters are lost. Heavy, extreme emphasis on historic Adventism and the pioneers. Agenda to purify the Adventist church and get back to 1800 style Adventism. Shepherd's Rod believe they will be the instruments of destruction God will use to cleanse the camp of modern-day Adventism at some point in the future. Have thier own communes, schools, churches, camp meetings, etc. Deify Ellen White, all but have included her in the Biblical canon. Fringe groups who believe that only a literal 144,000 are going through to the end. Hatred for corporate Adventism and conference structure. Believe the GC is the seat of the beast, riddled with Jesuit infiltrators. Hatred for any modern expressions of Adventism, believe they are the only true Adventists and the rest are lost. All believe the mainline church is in apostasy and is fallen Babylon, and so a call for as many as possible to come out is needed. Many use cultish fear-tactics and brainwashing to recruit and retain thier followers.

Key Groups/Figures: Shepherd's Rod (Victor Houteff), Branch Davidians, SDA Reform, Remnant Of The Remnant, Our Firm Foundation/Hope International (Ralph Larson), Hartland Institute (Colin and Russell Standish)

Anyone who thinks they can solely lay claim to the Adventist name is in denial. This is only a partial list of the groups that are in existence in 2007.
I believe that the divisions by NightEternal are arbitrary and inconsistent. I believe that my divisions are extremely precise because they are expressed in a natural, canonical form. The Spirit of Prophecy agrees with me. My focus is the spirit of each face. I only see seven spirits. See The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism.
 

StormyOne

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ahhhh here we go.... no need to slam Night's categories to promote yours.... just let yours stand or fall on their own merits.... The Spirit of Prophecy? What might that be? Surely you are not referring to egw, she is dead, and when she was alive she was not a spirit but human....
 
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Bourbaki

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RC_NewProtestants

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I believe that there are only seven spiritual factions in the Seventh-day Adventist church and that the paper The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is inspired. NightEternal disagrees. He has divided the Adventist church into 8 distinct factions and claims there are other significant divisions in our church. Who is right? Does Seventh-day Adventism have 8 or more faces or only 7 faces?

I believe that the divisions by NightEternal are arbitrary and inconsistent. I believe that my divisions are extremely precise because they are expressed in a natural, canonical form. The Spirit of Prophecy agrees with me. My focus is the spirit of each face. I only see seven spirits. See The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism.
From a post on Atomorrow several years ago, something that shows how some things never change.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Eugene Shubert has his own forum which claims to be the ultimate in truth. He makes what is essentially a claim of infallibility. These are pronouncements in the truest Papist form. (After all, who is the one man on Earth who claims infallibility? The Pope, and Eugene's claims must therefore be derivative from the Pope's.) He makes the same type of over-the-top accusations which Ted and Ulrike use to bring disrepute upon the SDA church, and he proudly associates with them on their forum.

http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/Atomorrow03092002.html
[/FONT]
 
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Bourbaki

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From a post on Atomorrow several years ago, something that shows how some things never change.

Eugene Shubert has his own forum which claims to be the ultimate in truth. He makes what is essentially a claim of infallibility. These are pronouncements in the truest Papist form. (After all, who is the one man on Earth who claims infallibility? The Pope, and Eugene's claims must therefore be derivative from the Pope's.) He makes the same type of over-the-top accusations which Ted and Ulrike use to bring disrepute upon the SDA church, and he proudly associates with them on their forum.
Here's a friendly reminder of forum netiquette:

"Defamation is not allowed. Defamation is an attempt to damage the reputation of a person or persons by slander or libel."

" Flaming is defined as the posting of inflammatory or unsubstantiated accusations or the use of rude, hurtful, insulting, or belittling language."

"Sharing of information about one's beliefs, for instance by quoting Bible verses or witnessing, is encouraged."

"Thread hijacking, off-topic posting, and derailment are forbidden."
 
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tall73

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He is a quick learner!

Eugene,


If I do not accept the authority of EGW, how should I relate to your document?

You mention that EGW backs you up, and I see comments by her. But how does that help someone who does not accept her ministry?

They are instead building a foundation for apostasy. It is a work of deception and a terribly misguided agenda to be following the policies of Korah, Dathan and Abiram and to be be firmly committed to undermining the prophetic ministry of Ellen White

This

a. Assumes that they reject EGW's authority because they don't like it. What about those who reject her for theological reasons?
b. Assumes EGW's inspiration.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Eugene everything I posted is from your friend's website. So I suggest if you don't like those things then you talk to Ted Mac and have him remove them.

As you may recall you accused me in a different post: http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=38660968&postcount=54
"The only persons I know that call self-professing Adventists Jesuits, are legalists. I know myself and I am not a legalist. I am a True Seventh-day Adventist.

I believe that your statements would be more persuasive if they were at least partially factual."

As such I thought in response to such an accusation I should point out that you are associated with someone who has a site filled with the nonsense about Adventists and Jesuit infiltration. You should also remember that the truth is the best defense when someone accuses another of slander.

If however you disavow any connection with Ted McMillen I would certainly be willing to reevaluate my perception of you.
 
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freeindeed2

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"The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10).
" 6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth." 1 Jo 5:6
 
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Bourbaki

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Eugene,

If I do not accept the authority of EGW, how should I relate to your document?

You should be willing to admit and openly acknowledge that my profile of the Seventh-day Adventist church is a reasonable assessment of the church for genuine Seventh-day Adventists that take EGW seriously.

You mention that EGW backs you up, and I see comments by her. But how does that help someone who does not accept her ministry?

The best known and most widely circulated profiles of the Seventh-day Adventist church in the world represent Adventism as a feud between Progressives and Legalists. See the article by Kenneth R. Samples, The Recent Truth About Seventh-day Adventism (Christianity Today, February 5, 1990), for example. My thesis is that it is Satan that wants the world to believe that and is laughing at all the help he is getting from professing Adventists.

Shouldn't everyone consider the possibility that they have been lied to and that only a very small and hated minority in the world has the truth?

I am truly alarmed by how many angry Adventists there are that have been spitting fury against my document, which is a mere EGW compilation with hints of interpretation.

They are instead building a foundation for apostasy. It is a work of deception and a terribly misguided agenda to be following the policies of Korah, Dathan and Abiram and to be firmly committed to undermining the prophetic ministry of Ellen White

This

a. Assumes that they reject EGW's authority because they don't like it. What about those who reject her for theological reasons?
b. Assumes EGW's inspiration.

There's only one truth. Someone has to be deceived. I believe that the available evidence is substantial for most Christians to reach the honest conclusion that Ellen G. White had a respectable ministry. In Ellen White's view, those who oppose her work are deceived. I am only asking professing Adventists to consider the possibility that the statements I've collected from her writings in The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism might be true.

Walter Martin was a fairly objective investigator. In his interview with Douglas Hackleman for Adventist Currents, Vol. 1, No. 1, July, 1983, looking back on his research of Ellen G. White, Martin admitted: "I thought some of Mrs. White's material was prophetic. I felt some of her insights were extremely helpful and I regarded her as a sister in the Lord."

There are no EGW quotes in my document about wigs and volcanoes. I think what I've assembled merits thoughtful investigation. The Apostle Paul wrote, “Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thess. 5:19-21) NIV.

Judging the behavior of my critics, I can't believe for a second that they are obeying Jesus.
 
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lianeh2444

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This is my first post and after reading some of the responses throughout the forum my mind is just boggled. My cat just tried to input her own thoughts, bad girl.

Anyway, some of you might know me from another forum which is very conservative and coming out and finding this forum has been a real eye opener for me.

I know there are factions in this church and different ways one thinks or believes as there are now Bible versions for every taste and view.

My thoughts though how many ways are there to understanding God and can they all be right?

As I have seen it there is only one God, one Way and one truth. And that is Jesus Christ. As I see it we must conform to His will in our lives no matter who we are, where we live, etc.

It has always been very black and white for me. The gray is getting there to the truth, the way and to God. One must desire and give up self and surrender all to Him no matter what it takes. Everything else is is of the world and self, surrender is all and Christ centered.

The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. Sister White was and still is the messenger of that testimony given to a last generation of people before He comes.

I learned many years ago from having been in the world that the world is not freedom, but bondage. When I came to Christ I found out that I was in bondage, but now I have more freedom in Him then I ever had before.

Enough said. I will be stopping by and reading, much interesting!
 
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Bourbaki

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This is my first post and after reading some of the responses throughout the forum my mind is just boggled. My cat just tried to input her own thoughts, bad girl.

Anyway, some of you might know me from another forum which is very conservative and coming out and finding this forum has been a real eye opener for me.

Yes, those conservative Adventist forums do an excellent job of sheltering members from hearing a broad range of topics, especially messages that challenge Adventists for their complicity and obeisance to the ruling powers of evil.
 
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