The CoC's view of baptism

[Lady Bug]

Hi, I'm not officially in the CoC (or related Restoration Movement group), but I've been looking around at what other denominations teach about baptism, and unfortunately it seems that all their views on baptism are unscriptural. On the one end you have infant baptism, but on the other hand you have the teaching that baptism is not necessary at all for salvation, has nothing to do with it, and is an "outward sign of an inward grace." I couldn't find a group within Christianity that believes both in a believers' baptism and a baptism connected to salvation, but much to my surprise the CoC has both of those beliefs.

Is anyone as frustrated as I am about this? Surely someone here must be...

Anyway I would also like to know the fundamental differences between the CoC and the Christian Church.

 

[Desires Light]

Hi, I'm not officially in the CoC (or related Restoration Movement group), but I've been looking around at what other denominations teach about baptism, it really vexes me because of how unscriptural their teachings are. On the one end you have infant baptism, but on the other hand you have the teaching that baptism is not necessary at all for salvation, has nothing to do with it, and is an "outward sign of an inward grace." I couldn't find a group within Christianity that believes both in a believers' baptism and a baptism connected to salvation, but much to my surprise the CoC has both of those beliefs.

Is anyone as frustrated as I am about this? Surely someone here must be...

Anyway I would also like to know the fundamental differences between the CoC and the Christian Church.

There's nothing you can do Lady Bug. Nothing, you just have to accept that & you'll feel better. By the way, your profile pic is very cute.

 

[dreadnought]

Hi, I'm not officially in the CoC (or related Restoration Movement group), but I've been looking around at what other denominations teach about baptism, it really vexes me because of how unscriptural their teachings are. On the one end you have infant baptism, but on the other hand you have the teaching that baptism is not necessary at all for salvation, has nothing to do with it, and is an "outward sign of an inward grace." I couldn't find a group within Christianity that believes both in a believers' baptism and a baptism connected to salvation, but much to my surprise the CoC has both of those beliefs.

Is anyone as frustrated as I am about this? Surely someone here must be...

Anyway I would also like to know the fundamental differences between the CoC and the Christian Church.

I was thinking about baptism yesterday in church. On the one hand, you have one group who believes that baptism is necessary for salvation, so they rush their kids in for infant baptism. On the other hand, you have a group that believes a person should choose themselves to be baptized, not have that decision made for them. Both groups seem to have a legitimate point, don't they?

 

[seeking.IAM]

About Baptism being necessary for salvation, I ponder the thieves on the cross. "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise." How does that fit in with such a belief?

 

[TuxAme]

What's your issue with infant baptism? And what do you mean by "believer's baptism"?

 

[Acts2:38]

Christian Church

One example (of many) is that the Disciples of Christ churches have Women leadership positions. Churches of Christ do not 1 Tim 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 14:34

You can compare the rest of the examples just searching around but I just wanted to give you a brief sample.

Is anyone as frustrated as I am about this? Surely someone here must be...

It's just as 1 Tim 4:1-2 and 2 Tim 4:3-4 was talking about. All you can do is tell the gospel like it is and let them choose the bible or the world, with meekness etc.

About Baptism being necessary for salvation, I ponder the thieves on the cross. "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise." How does that fit in with such a belief?

Christ was not dead yet when He was talking to the thief, therefore they were still under the old covenant, therefore Christ could do that without the thief being baptized. After Christs death.... thats another story.

 

[Acts2:38]

Hi, I'm not officially in the CoC (or related Restoration Movement group), but I've been looking around at what other denominations teach about baptism, it really vexes me

It sounds like you are coming to some realizations here. Whats stopping you from seeking out a congregation of Christs church? Are you still researching/seeking?

 

[Lady Bug]

There's nothing you can do Lady Bug. Nothing, you just have to accept that & you'll feel better. By the way, your profile pic is very cute.

Thank you I've been here for over a decade but I haven't been active much over the most recent years, but sometimes I like to come around lol.

I was thinking about baptism yesterday in church. On the one hand, you have one group who believes that baptism is necessary for salvation, so they rush their kids in for infant baptism. On the other hand, you have a group that believes a person should choose themselves to be baptized, not have that decision made for them. Both groups seem to have a legitimate point, don't they?

The thing with infant baptism is that it precedes belief, but in the Bible the only examples of baptism were where the people believed first.

What's your issue with infant baptism? And what do you mean by "believer's baptism"?

What I just said above lol.

It sounds like you are coming to some realizations here. Whats stopping you from seeking out a congregation of Christs church? Are you still researching/seeking?

There are a couple unresolved issues, but I don't want to cause any problems here, but I feel they need to be addressed. Should I put them here or in a separate thread?

 

[Lady Bug]

I was thinking about baptism yesterday in church. On the one hand, you have one group who believes that baptism is necessary for salvation, so they rush their kids in for infant baptism. On the other hand, you have a group that believes a person should choose themselves to be baptized, not have that decision made for them. Both groups seem to have a legitimate point, don't they?

That's the thing I like about the CoC stance; it combines the necessity of baptism for salvation with believers' baptism at the same time. I don't see any other Christian group doing this. I'm actually baffled that I don't.

 

[Acts2:38]

There are a couple unresolved issues, but I don't want to cause any problems here, but I feel they need to be addressed. Should I put them here or in a separate thread?

Well I suppose to stay on certain topics and pin them down, I would just start a thread per issue you have and anything related to those issues.

 

[Lady Bug]

I have to say that I apologize if I offended any dissenters with the tone of my title; it should have sounded more constructive...I have a bullet list of a few unresolved thingies regarding the CoC, so I'll try to comment on that the next time around, I hope.

 

[DW1980]

Anyway I would also like to know the fundamental differences between the CoC and the Christian Church.

I think the main difference would be that the CoC (Community of Christ?) is one of the two main branches of Mormonism. Most followed Brigham Young and that became the LDS Church we usually think of when we think "Mormon". The CoC are those who thought Joseph Smith's son should become the new leader of the Church. I believe that the CoC accepts the Book of Mormon as scripture, and has its own version of the doctrine and covenants.

I also believe that the CoC is less dogmatic about the inspiration of the Book of Mormon than the LDS Church, and allows for it to be seen as helpful fiction.

Aside from that I don't know much about it. Obviously the key difference there would be that Christians would regard Joseph Smith as a false prophet, and therefore anything that finds its source in him would be seen as non-Christian.

I hope this helps a bit...

 

[Jane_Doe]

Anyway I would also like to know the fundamental differences between the CoC and the Christian Church.

The Community of Christ (CoC) church is a restoration church, and would be regarded as "Christian" by CF, as they accept the 4th century Creeds. They are also part of large Christian organizations.

They don't really have much to do with the LDS church, other than a few basic beliefs (like that a believer's baptism is needed for salvation) and some 1800's historical background. Other things like books of scripture, views of scripture, LBGT, priesthood, governorship, etc are VERY different than LDS views.

I have to say that I apologize if I offended any dissenters with the tone of my title; it should have sounded more constructive...I have a bullet list of a few unresolved thingies regarding the CoC, so I'll try to comment on that the next time around, I hope.

If you got any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm obviously not a member of CoC, but have studied them pretty thoroughly just to understand folks better.

 

[Acts2:38]

I think the main difference would be that the CoC (Community of Christ?) is one of the two main branches of Mormonism. Most followed Brigham Young and that became the LDS Church we usually think of when we think "Mormon". The CoC are those who thought Joseph Smith's son should become the new leader of the Church. I believe that the CoC accepts the Book of Mormon as scripture, and has its own version of the doctrine and covenants.

I also believe that the CoC is less dogmatic about the inspiration of the Book of Mormon than the LDS Church, and allows for it to be seen as helpful fiction.

Aside from that I don't know much about it. Obviously the key difference there would be that Christians would regard Joseph Smith as a false prophet, and therefore anything that finds its source in him would be seen as non-Christian.

I hope this helps a bit...

Whoaaa!

Way off friend.

coc is usually a reference to church of Christ members. We have nothing to do with Mormonism and teach strongly against adding or taking away from scripture, which is what Mormonism does, that the first century christians followed.

Regardless of what people think, we have been around since the first century people. People think we started with Campbell, hence calling us "campbellites", which is utterly wrong. You see churches of Christ long before Alexander Campbell was a thought. Long before his parents and their parents were a thought, so on and so forth.

 

[Acts2:38]

The Community of Christ (CoC) church is a restoration church

We are churches of Christ (coc)

as they accept the 4th century Creeds.

We follow first century teachings the first century christians followed

They are also part of large Christian organizations.

We are all autonomous from each other and have no headquarters. Our "Head" would be Christ who is seated at the throne as we speak and since His resurrection.

We each run ourselves and no other church runs another.

 

[Acts2:38]

The straight up different between the churches of Christ and the "disciples of Christ", is that the disciples of Christ break away from what scripture clearly teaches. We could go over examples if needed, but that is the basics of it in a nutshell.

 

[Jane_Doe]

We are churches of Christ (coc)

Ah, my bad. I thought the question was in regard to the Community of Christ church (CoC, formerly RLDS). Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Acts2:38]

Ah, my bad. I thought the question was in regard to the Community of Christ church (CoC, formerly RLDS). Thanks for the clarification.

I didn't even know this until you mentioned it lol. So many different churches cant keep up.

 

[DW1980]

Whoaaa!

Way off friend.

coc is usually a reference to church of Christ members. We have nothing to do with Mormonism and teach strongly against adding or taking away from scripture, which is what Mormonism does, that the first century christians followed.

Regardless of what people think, we have been around since the first century people. People think we started with Campbell, hence calling us "campbellites", which is utterly wrong. You see churches of Christ long before Alexander Campbell was a thought. Long before his parents and their parents were a thought, so on and so forth.

I am so sorry! I saw restorationist movement, and CoC (which is the Community of Christ's website!) and assumed...

Hi @Jane_Doe - see you made the same error lol

 

[Acts2:38]

I am so sorry! I saw restorationist movement, and CoC (which is the Community of Christ's website!) and assumed...

Hi @Jane_Doe - see you made the same error lol

No apologies necessary. I was just like, "whoaaa, hold the phone a minute" lol.

Didn't want to confuse the two. Jane educated me that there was such a thing as the "community" churches you spoke of. I didn't know they even existed as such a thing.