The Bible Isn't the Inspired Word of God

[BL2KTN]

Anybody want to try that one with me? I'd be arguing that the bible is not inspired by the divine.

 

[Strathos]

As your icon identifies you as a deist, you would first have to define what kind of "divine" entity you believe in, what characteristics he/she/it has, and why it would be more likely to exist than the God of the Bible.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Gentlemen, such a debate on the nature of the Bible is, I believe, against the rules here at Christian Forums; however, I am going to discuss the possibility of allowing it with our CF Advisers.

In the mean time, please proceed with your discussion towards a proposal, and I will try and post back here in no more than a few days.

I do ask that since this is a proposal thread, there is not debate allowed here; only discussion of the stipulations surrounding a topic.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.

 

[BL2KTN]

As your icon identifies you as a deist, you would first have to define what kind of "divine" entity you believe in, what characteristics he/she/it has, and why it would be more likely to exist than the God of the Bible.

I wouldn't have to define what kind of divinity I believe in (although I could); I would only have to show that Yahweh/El of the Bible did not inspire its writings imo.

Gentlemen, such a debate on the nature of the Bible is, I believe, against the rules here at Christian Forums; however, I am going to discuss the possibility of allowing it with our CF Advisers.

In the mean time, please proceed with your discussion towards a proposal, and I will try and post back here in no more than a few days.

I do ask that since this is a proposal thread, there is not debate allowed here; only discussion of the stipulations surrounding a topic.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.

Sounds good, Mark.

 

[BL2KTN]

Proposed structure for the debate:

Topic and Title:
The Bible Is Not the Inspired Word of God

Rounds:
Ten each

Time Limit:
Three Days to Respond

Maximum Post Length:
1,000 Words (including quotes)

Quotes:
Quotes and Outside References are allowed

 

[pshun2404]

Background…I was a devout agnostic until my mid-twenties, had a number of real-time experiences with phenomenon outside the natural order that I could not deny which shattered my world view and initiated my search for answers to how and why this could be despite my having been so convinced such things were fairy tales and superstitions. I looked through thousands upon thousands of pages of information and ventured into a number of religious disciplines over the next decade till I was convinced (very resistantly at first) to attend a fellowship at a church that had so radically changed a drug dealer biker former friend…after only 6 weeks I personally had heard and experienced enough to draw me to Jesus as THE Christ and was baptized during which I heard His voice and was healed of a lifelong Uric Acidosis (passed Kidney Stones multiple times and was on strong medicine to alkalize my blood) which to this day has never returned. So I began my walk with this God who I now KNOW more assuredly than I do my own physical friends and family.

So for the first point I would like to contend:

Man could not have been alone in its design or intent of what has become our Holy Scriptures. Especially such an ancient culturally limited peoples! The Bible itself has no other kindred type with which it can be compared in all of ancient literature.

The fact that over 30 authors from very different walks of life (male and female) who being of all ages, most of whom never knew one another, from different continents in at least two different tongues, would at different times in history over 1500 years, randomly write of their experiences and observations with such a being, and that these would all come together in one place having uncanny unity of theme and purpose in their message all pointing to an event in human history which at the time had not yet come, which would so radically change people’s lives and the world as we knew it, forever, is so far beyond mathematical probability that the fact of its existence itself speaks loudly in favor of some sort of outside intelligent force being involved. However this is not all that’s its very presence speaks to, which negates the probability of a human plan or collusion to engineer any kind of conclusive system of belief.

Secondly I reject any attempt to declare the notion to accuse that using one set or piece of writings found therein supporting or lending evidential testimony to another is circular. Because if one were to take a conclusion or hypothesis regarding any other subject matter and the conclusions found or determined were supported by thirty other researchers or persons in a similar field (say biology or psychology) such agreement would not be rejected as circular but would be taken as confirmation.

Thirdly, just like any other social or physical experiment, millions who have ventured to take the challenge offered therein, from different walks, different cultures, of all ages, and times and of both genders, most of whom have never known each other, come to the same conclusion. That the God of Abraham IS God and is involved in the actions and events of human history (now there is some in-house debate as to the level of involvement but of the involvement there is no doubt).

Therefore according to the rules of evidence and proof, I offer this first as evidence that is empirical in nature…consider what is empirical evidence…

Empirical = based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic alone; originating in or based on observation or experience; relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory ; capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment.

So then millions of people, many of whom are highly intelligent rational persons, having taken the challenges posed thereby, having experienced and observed similar expected results in the change of their own nature, the fulfillment of prophesied events, and the effect of these principles on political systems IMO speaks very loudly in favor of an intelligence outside of mankind being involved in this unique and effectual library of books and letters.

Just want to close with my foreseen observation that these may become so long that comments and/or rebuttals may be quire long. Looking forward to your response…I could have went into so much more detail just on this point but the basic premise is logical, and sound, and I believe tough to refute. If this was true of such a confirmed scientific fact it would not even be doubted by the majority of people.

In His love

Paul

 

[BL2KTN]

Hey Paul,

Glad to see your experience and am tremendously happy that you're in a better place than you were years ago! As soon as Mark opens up an official debate thread on the Formal Debate forum (this is just for proposed ones), I think it will be wonderful to debate with you. Of course, I'll only be debating whether the bible is the inspired by the/a god, not whether your experiences outside of the bible are legitimate.

Looking forward to a polite, educating, thorough debate that will edify readers from both viewpoints. And remember to check the debate rules listed above in this thread as the proposed regulations (which will prevent posts from becoming too long).

 

[pshun2404]

Hey Paul,

Glad to see your experience and am tremendously happy that you're in a better place than you were years ago! As soon as Mark opens up an official debate thread on the Formal Debate forum (this is just for proposed ones), I think it will be wonderful to debate with you. Of course, I'll only be debating whether the bible is the inspired by the/a god, not whether your experiences outside of the bible are legitimate.

Looking forward to a polite, educating, thorough debate that will edify readers from both viewpoints. And remember to check the debate rules listed above in this thread as the proposed regulations (which will prevent posts from becoming too long).

Me as well, but if you bothered to read the post you would not have diverted the issue to the little blurb I included to let you know a little about myself...the post had nothing to do with me it had to do with unfathomable nature of such a book of books...

I also look forward to the Mods decision...

 

[BL2KTN]

Yes I know, but I didn't want to respond yet as I want to hold all of our thoughts for the official thread =)

 

[pshun2404]

Yes I know, but I didn't want to respond yet as I want to hold all of our thoughts for the official thread =)

Excellent!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Gentlemen,

I received word this morning that Christian Forums will be allowing this one on one discussion. Your debate topic, while outside our rules may be freely discussed; however all of our other rules still apply so it must remain civil and respectful.

Regarding the Peanut Gallery; since we do not have a forum where it would be considered "on topic"; and since this topic itself is, as I stated, against the rules; the PG will be set up in the moderated PG forum, and for the Peanut Gallery, ALL the rules will apply.

I will set up the stipulations here within the next 24 hours, and we can review and discuss them before we open the debate.

Mark

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Let's start with this, but some procedural changes in blue:

Proposed structure for the debate:

1. Topic and Title: The Bible Is Not the Inspired Word of God
2. Rounds: Ten alternating rounds with BlueLightningTN beginning with the affirmative position; and pshun2404 responding with the negative position.
3. Time Limit: Three Days following the approval of a post to Respond
4. Maximum Post Length 1,000 Words (including quotes)
5. Quotes: Quotes and Outside References are allowed

1. The Peanut gallery will be moderated, that means that each post will be reviewed for compliance with all the rules of Christian Forums. That means that the debate and the progress of that debate may be discussed there, but the topic may not be debated by the participants of the PG thread.

Has any consideration been given to a start date?


Thanks,
Mark

 

[BL2KTN]

All of this sounds great... I can post tomorrow if you like.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I need pshun2404 to voice agreement as well.

 

[pshun2404]

BLTN...I look forward to the exchange, may we both learn and grow from this encounter...

Paul

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I just saw this; I've been working some stupid hours this week, but will be setting this up this weekend.

Mark

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The formal debate thread has been created (http://www.christianforums.com/t7822814/#post65621617), and is found here; it includes a link to the Peanut Gallery thread. BlueLightningTN, you may begin when you are ready.

A note to both of you; please send me a PM when you have posted, so I can approve the post as quickly as possible.

Enjoy your debate.

Mark

 

[pshun2404]

As I read back I may not understand one of the rules...Mark you said "Three Days following the approval of a post to Respond"...

Does this mean anytime within the three days I can respond?
Do I have to wait for approval of the opposers thread before I can post? OR
Do I have to submit each post to you for approval before it gets posted?

I'm a little confused...can you help me get more clear on this point?

Thanks

In His name]

Paul

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

As I read back I may not understand one of the rules...Mark you said "Three Days following the approval of a post to Respond"...

Does this mean anytime within the three days I can respond?
Do I have to wait for approval of the opposers thread before I can post? OR
Do I have to submit each post to you for approval before it gets posted?

I'm a little confused...can you help me get more clear on this point?

Thanks

In His name]

Paul

Sorry, let me explain. This is a moderated debate, which means that when a post is made, it is only visible to moderation staff. We review the post to ensure that it complies with the stipulations and conditions of the debate. Once we have reviewed it, we approve it, and it becomes visible to all. From that point on, the three days would apply. If, for any reason, either of you need an extension, I don't have a problem if you guys are ok with it.

Mark.