Take a Stand for Marriage

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Crazy Liz

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seebs said:
I don't know; I am apparently fairly close to traditional Quaker theology, and Quakers are vaguely Anabaptists, but I'd be interested in seeing more exposition on what you mean by "Anabaptist theology".

My basic argument for separating church and state is simply that the walk with God is necessarily a personal one, and you cannot possibly help people be good Christians by enforcing Christian morals as laws.

If you follow some of the links I posted, you will see that you just posted a pretty good one-sentence summary of Anabaptist theology on church and state. There are other elements and ramifications, such as nonresistance, but you have the gist of it.
 
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Tenorvoice

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My stand of "searation of Church and State" is that the government can not force us to worship a government established religion (one of the reasons that our fore fathers left England). This is what it means to me. Nothing more nothing less. The governemt is NOT going to FORCE me in to doing anything that the Lord would not commend me to do. Plain and simple.

(afterthought)~~Once we allow this "homosexual" trash into out society and aprove it then the destruction of the Family and the home is the next forfront that they will be attacking (and already are). This is the reason for the Federal amendment for Marriage to be between ONE man and ONE woman ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Susan

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:sigh: My question is how is that going to happen? How does a marriage between Bob and Joe or Jane and Jill down the street hurt *your* family and your marriage? I'm on thin ice defending my position with Rule 6 and all, but that is the thing I've honestly not been able to understand: how does someone else's sin devalue *your* life before God?
 
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P_G

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Susan said:
:sigh: My question is how is that going to happen? How does a marriage between Bob and Joe or Jane and Jill down the street hurt *your* family and your marriage? I'm on thin ice defending my position with Rule 6 and all, but that is the thing I've honestly not been able to understand: how does someone else's sin devalue *your* life before God?

Susan Bless you for asking a good but hard question.

Strictly the Anabaptist would be seperatist from the "world" My Amish brothers to this day do a greatjob at this maybe too great.

As we intermingle with the world outside, send our kids the their schools, work in their businesses, and live in their communities we are affected by those things that the world holds dear but G-d does not.

The bible tells us that we are not to partake of the idols of the pagans. But when we send our children to the public school and they are taught that it's ok and right and good for members of the same sex to be married we have done just that. We have sacrificed our children to Molech.

When we do not stand up in the work place because of fear of loosing our Jobs it has affected our marriages and our lives. The bible tells us that who ever is ashamed of Christ before men he will be ashamed of before the Father in heaven. We sell our values short.

This is a small part of how these things do very much invade our families and our marriages. Will we be able to control what the world does? Romans 1 says we will not. In fact G-d has given these sinful people over to the wicked desires of their hearts.

The trick is for us not to be a part of that. Love your brother and fellowship with him. Speak not harshly but rather exhort him.

Blessings

Much love

Pastor George :wave:
 
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seebs

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When we send children to school, they are taught that police officers may kill others under some circumstances, and that soldiers should sign up in case someone else decides they should go to war, and that it is okay for credit cards to charge 20% and higher interest, and that possessing larger cars makes you a better person. Against this backdrop, the question of whether or not members of the same sex may be joined legally is hardly even on the radar, to me. If my children were to ask, I would explain that different people have different customs about these things, and explain to them what ours were, and why we believed them to be the right customs -- and by contrast, why we believed others to be wrong.

I see no harm to me or mine. It is good that we should be aware that not all people agree with us, and it is good that they should be allowed to act on that disagreement unless it harms us. Merely existing as an example of people living differently is not harm to me.

I think you've essentially begged the question. You say that this happening is harmful because children are taught that it's okay for it to happen... but we still haven't got a reason for which it's not okay for it to happen. I don't see any basis for condemning social acceptance of same-sex marriage, but not condemning social acceptance of Shinto marriage. I am fairly sure that Shinto beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, but I believe them to be nonetheless entitled to the legal protections I would afford to anyone else, or would want for myself.

I would like to live in a world where, when I am in a place where my beliefs are in the minority, I am allowed to act according to them anyway. If I am to follow the commandments of Jesus (which seems like a good idea to me!), I must then extend this same treatment I would desire to other people.

I believe that the government should extend the same legal benefits to anything involving consenting adults that people wish to call a "marriage", whether or not it meets my personal expectations. I believe that a great number of civil marriages are not "sacramental marriages", and that many people who have a marriage license are nonetheless living in sin. Likewise, I think Christians in some countries may be unable to attain a civil marriage (because local law does not allow the extension of marriage benefits to Christians), but may nonetheless be sacramentally married.

Thus, the main thing I want is clearer separation between religious marriages, where I think each church must draw its own lines, and civil marriages, where I believe we should not be drawing lines based on our own religious beliefs.
 
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seebs

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Forum Rule 4 - see the "Rules" link at the bottom of the page. Could be applied to gay marriage debates, although a pedantic reading says it only applies to promoting sexual activity outside of heterosexual non-plural marriages.
 
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Pilgrim 33

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I'm not sure where usury fits in, though it is cancerous to the (albeit degenerative) well-being of mankind and, therefore, could be regarded as a crime against mankind.

Murder, robbery, rape, etc are crimes against mankind.

Crimes against the beliefs of free will could be viewed as crimes against God as well as mankind.

Unnatural acts are crimes against nature and, thus, are also crimes against God and mankind.

To see, or even hear of, these things tarnishes the mind and, as Psalms 1:1 illustrates, begins a gradual downhill slide resulting in their customary acceptance.
 
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seebs

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This leaves us with an interesting puzzle.

To see or even hear of someone being coerced, and thus deprived in some part of free will, may tarnish the mind. To let them go their way, should it happen to include some other unwanted thing, may also tarnish the mind.

Given this... I will prefer the path of allowing others to take actions which may be theoretically crimes against mankind, but where I cannot show any evidence of harm to anyone else without presupposing my own theological positions, because I would rather not commit an obviously harmful act myself.
 
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P_G

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Susan said:
I would answer your post, nehemiah_center, but as I'd most likely get Rule 4ed for doing so, despite my being a Christian, I won't do that here. :) :sigh: I'm out.

Susan I think the problem is going to stem here that you are in an areana now
that is going to be populated by VERY fundamentalist people. And my heart tells me
you are probably not. Don't get yourself in any trouble you are a moderator and I admire your restraint in not posting what you beleive in your heart to be true.

It seems I am picking up G-ds banner here in two seperate threads here in this Fora.

I want to go on record by saying I do not hate nor curse anyone who is homosexual. I beleive that G-d has given them a terrible cross to bear. But then we each have a hard cross to lift up.

I didn't ask the Lord to make me a drug addict or alcoholic but that was in part my cross. And it was pretty tough to lift it up. That is till I let Y'shua hold the heavy end! Once we do that the cross gets a whole lot lighter.

It is the sin not the predisposition that condems. Y'shua calls us to all turn from our sins and not revel in them. What good am I as a pastor if I don't stand up for G-ds morality? You know Sh'ual (Paul) stood up many times and was flogged and beaten and tortured over and over again for it. And he counted it all joy!


Blessings Susan

I love you even if we disagree

Pastor George :wave:
 
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