Silence in Heaven

[Barraco]

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

“When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995

“And forthwith I saw how the shepherds pastured for twelve hours, and behold three of those sheep turned back and came and entered and began to build up all that had fallen down of that house; but the wild boars tried to hinder them, but they were not able.” - 1 Enoch 5:108

The twelve hours in Enoch’s parable equates the the seventy years of exile between Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus the Great. If twelve hours equals seventy years, then silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years.

This could possibly point to the tribulation (1290 days). Several times in Enoch’s parable, the Lord remained silent while the sheep were slaughtered by wild beasts.

“And the Lord of the sheep remained unmoved till all the sheep were dispersed over the field and mingled with them and they did not save them out of the hand of the beasts.” - 1 Enoch 5:111

So much is packed into that one tiny verse, “There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” This is the time of Jacob’s trouble. This is the time that two-thirds of Judah and Jerusalem are killed and the remaining third is refined. Daniel 12:1 refers to this as the time Michael stands still and no longer holds back the lawless one that Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, the false messiah.

 

[keras]

This is the time of Jacob’s trouble

Jacobs Trouble will be the Sixth Seal. A one day disaster, when Jacob/ Isael; now the Christian peoples will lose their military power.

Revelation 8:1 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about a half hour.

We are clearly told that the ‘about a half hour’, is in heaven. Time in heaven is not and cannot be the same as earthly time, heaven doesn’t rotate or orbit the sun and God is eternal, His ways are not our ways.
Anyway, the Bible informs us twice that one day in heaven is like [as] 1000 years on earth. Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8
Genesis speaks of ‘6 days’ of creation, it seems more logical that they were actually 1000 year periods, or allegorically pointing to God’s 7000 year Plan for mankind on the physical earth.

The calculation of 1000 divided by 48 gives us a heavenly half-hour of about 20 earth years. But that is only the centre of a range of years possible because it is "about" a half-hour.

Calculating the range of years is based upon statistical rules: Since the text tells us a half-hour, we examine the next divisible time period which is a quarter-hour. We simply find the distance between 30 minutes and 15 minutes (above and below) and find the half-way points. This gives us +/- 5 centred on 20 years. Therefore the range is from 15 years to 25 years. If the actual year is outside of this range, then the Revelation account would have read "about a quarter of an hour” or “about three-quarters of an hour." But, Revelation says "about a half-hour." Thus we know it can't be outside the range of 15 to 25 years (including anything in between) otherwise "about a half-hour" would be wrong .

Therefore if, as seems likely, if the Sixth Seal – the great and terrible Day of the Lord, happens very soon – then the Seventh Seal follows immediately afterwards. So that will be the period of ‘silence in heaven’ but of tumult and huge changes on earth, over no less than 15 years.

A lot must happen during that time – the regeneration of the Land, many prophesies about that – the Lord will send rain. Then the gathering, and settling of His people, again many prophecies – houses rebuilt, land productive... The selection of the 144,000, The Gog Magog attack and 7 years clean up. The treaty with the Anti-Christ, the AoD in the new Temple and 3½ years of the Great Tribulation. Then the glorious Return after the 7th Bowl, which is Armageddon.

It all fits and I see the Hand of God in it.

 

[Diamond7]

silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years.

a half hour in heaven equals three years here.

 

[eleos1954]

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

“When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995

“And forthwith I saw how the shepherds pastured for twelve hours, and behold three of those sheep turned back and came and entered and began to build up all that had fallen down of that house; but the wild boars tried to hinder them, but they were not able.” - 1 Enoch 5:108

The twelve hours in Enoch’s parable equates the the seventy years of exile between Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus the Great. If twelve hours equals seventy years, then silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years.

This could possibly point to the tribulation (1290 days). Several times in Enoch’s parable, the Lord remained silent while the sheep were slaughtered by wild beasts.

“And the Lord of the sheep remained unmoved till all the sheep were dispersed over the field and mingled with them and they did not save them out of the hand of the beasts.” - 1 Enoch 5:111

So much is packed into that one tiny verse, “There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” This is the time of Jacob’s trouble. This is the time that two-thirds of Judah and Jerusalem are killed and the remaining third is refined. Daniel 12:1 refers to this as the time Michael stands still and no longer holds back the lawless one that Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, the false messiah.

When Jesus returns (and the 1st resurrection occurs) all the angels in heaven come with Him to gather the elect from all four corners of the earth (the entire earth - all the saved from the beginning of time) ... that's why there is silence in heaven.

If one uses the day/year principle then that is 1/2 hour. The book of Revelation is a highly prophetic book and it is logical to calculate the time using prophetic time ( day equals a year)

When He returns it will be like Jacobs trouble (what he experienced)
Genesis 32:24-30

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Jeremiah 30:7.

When Jesus returns all judgement has taken place and the door to salvation is closed. Christ shall cease His work as mediator in man’s behalf, then this time of trouble will begin. The case of every soul will have been decided, and there will be no atoning blood to cleanse from sin ... this time will be short though ... thankfully. I would shutter to think that mankind would have to live for 3-1/2 years without having access to God.

 

[Jamdoc]

Well, we can't be sure what the silence is. But one thing that's speculated about what it is I outright reject.
People say "oh the saints are silent because of the severity of the judgements coming on the Earth"
I reject that.
in the 5th seal they ask for God to avenge them, and ask how long until it happens, and these are bible educated people they know the judgements coming, and are asking for them.
at the 7th trumpet they cheer and praise God for the wrath being poured out on the Earth, and in Revelation 19 they cheer and praise as Babylon dis destroyed.
They're not going silent out of worrying about the judgements, they want them to happen. These people put the saints through the wringer, there's no lost love for the unredeemable torturers bearing the mark of the beast and they all know it.

The simplest answer is, now the scroll is open and now it can be read, and the contents.. as described in Ezekiel 2 as a scroll of woes and lamentations, and described in Zechariah 5 as a curse that goes across the whole land. It's the judgement on the Earth.

The first 6 seals, are not judgement yet, it is at the 7th seal that the hour of judgement arrives.
The 6th seal, the heavens open. It is the signs of the Day of the Lord beginning. But the 7th seal, the scroll is read, and...

2 Thessalonians 1

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Revelation 8

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Oecumenius, who was writing in the middle ages, believed that the second coming was at the 7th seal. After the judgements could be read, and the silence is people witnessing the glory of Jesus as He leaves heaven.
which is.. closer to where I am than a lot of other writers.

 

[BeeFive]

The silence in Heaven is telling us that the 6th trumpet(a WOE trumpet) lasts 2.5 months here on earth.(In answer to the saints from the 5th seal under the altar asking HOW LONG?..
Basically asking How long is the 6th trumpet since they know that Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet... so basically, how long is the 6th trumpet.

The answer is given in Rev 8:1.. about the space of 1/2 hour (the 6th trumpet WOE lasts for 1/2 hour or 2.5 months)

The 7 years of Dan 9:27 have been shortened to 5 months "lest no flesh would be saved".... Matthew tells us the time is shortened and Rev 9 tells us to 5 months.

The WOE part of the 5th trumpet is 2.5 months,(which is when satan is cast to earth in Rev 12) and the WOE of the 6th trumpet is 2.5 months which equals the 5 months (which were split into two 2.5 month sections.)..

Know and understand the 3 WOE trumpets ( 5th ,6th and 7.

 

[Zao is life]

It could also mean that because half an hour is half of one hour, it's referring to half of the hour of trial Jesus spoke about. Personally, I count the Revelation of Jesus Christ as the final Revelation and the words of Christ as the final authority. I don't know if Jesus ever referenced the book of Enoch

Revelation 3:10: "Because you have kept [tēréō] the word of My patience, I also will keep [tēréō] you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth."

During the hour of temptation:

Babylon the Great will be destroyed in one hour (Revelation 18:10, 17, 19).

She will be destroyed by ten kings, who will be reigning for one hour with the beast (Revelation 17:12-13).

That beast will be given authority to continue for 42 months (Revelation 13:5), and will make war against the saints and overcome them (Revelation 13:7).

So the hour of trial is not two hours (42 months + 42 months or seven years), but one hour (42 months).

John 17
6 "I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave to Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have kept [τηρησω tēréō: guarded from loss or injury by keeping their eye upon and preserving] Your word."

11-15: "And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep [tēréō] them in Your name,

I do not pray for You to take them out of the world, but for You to keep [tēréō] them from the evil."

Luke 21:17-19: "And you shall be hated by all for My name's sake. But there shall not a hair of your head perish. By your patience [ὑπομονή hypomonḗ: hopeful, believing endurance] you will gain your souls."

Revelation 2:10: "Do not at all fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the Devil will cast some of you into prison, so that you may be tried. And you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful to death, and I will give you the crown of life."

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

“When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995

Jacob is all Israel, which = all believers in Christ.

TRIBULATION OF APOSTLES OR CHRISTIANS:-

Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14.

GREAT TRIBULATION
[Greek: mégas thlîpsis]

Mentioned only three times in the New Testament:-

First mention: The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24:21-22 (Parallel: Mark 13:19-20)

"for then shall be mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened." (Also see Matthew 24:9).

"And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31).

Third mention: Revelation 7:13-14:

Revelation 7:9-10, 13-15
9 After these things I looked, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palms in their hands.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.

And one of the elders answered, saying to me, Who are these who are arrayed in white robes, and from where do they come?

And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of great tribulation [mégas thlîpsis] and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.

They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Second mention: Revelation 2:21: "Behold, I will cast her (Jezebel) into a bed, and them (those Christians) that commit adultery with her into mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), except they repent of their deeds."

Persecution of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of "the woman" who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13

TRIBULATION OF NON-CHRISTIANS

There are only two verses in the New Testament referring to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.

God's judgment coming upon the world when Christ returns is referred to in the New Testament as wrath (each time), not as "tribulation".

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

“When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995

It's because the events written on the scroll were sealed by seven seals after the scroll was written. All seven seals needed to be loosened before the scroll could unroll and all the trumpets and bowls that had already been written about on the scroll could be read. The seventh seal is also the seventh trumpet, is also the seventh plague / bowl of wrath.

The biblical type of the 7th seal: Joshua 6:1-20.

"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.". (Revelation 8:6).

There were seven priests blowing seven trumpets when the walls of Jericho fell, and they fell when the 7th trumpet sounded, the 7th time the Israelite tribes marched around the city, on the 7th of 7 days. This is why we see seven angels with seven trumpets when the seventh seal has been opened, and "the cities of the nations fell" when the seventh of seven angels poured out his bowl of wrath.

The seven angels have been appointed to carry out God's judgment: "Voices, thunderings, Lightnings, and an earthquake"

We read of "voices, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake" when God speaks: We see it in Exodus 20:18, we see it used in poetic form by David in 2 Samuel 22:14-15, and we see it again in the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh plague or bowl of wrath:

Revelation 8:5-6
And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth.​

------------------------
And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
------------------------​

The entire scroll now unrolls: And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant,

------------------------
and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail.
------------------------​

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets." (Revelation 10:7).

Revelation 16:17-18
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!

------------------------
And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake,
------------------------​

such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.

Half an hour in the Revelation is half of the hour of trial when the beast is reigning: 21 months.

“And the Lord of the sheep remained unmoved till all the sheep were dispersed over the field and mingled with them and they did not save them out of the hand of the beasts.” - 1 Enoch 5:111

So much is packed into that one tiny verse, “There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” This is the time of Jacob’s trouble. This is the time that two-thirds of Judah and Jerusalem are killed and the remaining third is refined. Daniel 12:1 refers to this as the time Michael stands still and no longer holds back the lawless one that Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, the false messiah.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

[BeeFive]

There are 2 tribulations... not just one

and people also get messed up in the "terminology"...

These words are all one and the same:...THE Great Tribulation/= The Wrath of God , =the mellenium for 1000 years= The Day of the lord= The 2nd advent which is at the 7th trumpet THE LAST TRUMPET= Jacobs trouble

There are 2 tribulations..
1.) satans trib. which is that 5 month period of Rev 9 which is the Daniel 9:27 covenant... the 7 years has been shortened from 7 years to 5 months... If God had not shortened those days, (the 7 years) there would be no flesh saved(Matthew 24:22)
satan/lucifer is literally here on earth when he gets cast out of Heaven to earth(Rev 12:7) for 5 months... satans 5 month tribulation


2.)This 5 month period is THEN followed by God's tribulation: the 7th trumpet, when Jesus returns at the last trumpet..which is the Wrath/The great trib,/ the 2nd advent/ 1000 year mellenium./Jacobs trouble... the 2nd tribulation.

2 different tribs.

And unless "those days" were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.("those days" are 7 years to 5 months os satans tribulation)

A "Day" is as a thousand years.

The only ones who go thru the Wrath then, (the 1000 years)are those who are deceived into following satan when he falsely claims to be Jesus returned.

Those who stand firm against satan when he is here, receive the 1st resurrection reward at the 2nd advent/7th trumpet.
The rest have to go thru the mellenium/wrath/Jacob's trouble/ Day of the Lord 1000 years.. and receive the 2nd resurrection if they choose Jesus at the end of that 1000 years when satan is again released from the pit to test them.

Satan and the fallen angels get kicked out to earth Rev 12:7; Daniel 11:21( the vile person)
Rev 13 tells us 10 of the fallen angels (under the direction of the devil/satan/lucifer/dragon) set up the Daniel 9:27 one world political peace plan which lasts 2.5 months.

(God shortened the 7 years to 5 months as Rev 9 declares as well as Matthew because unless God did not shorten the days, no flesh would be saved.)

Not everyone goes along with this one world peace plan thus it falls apart(called the deadly wound in Rev 9)

Then Lucifer makes his actual appearance to the world claiming to be Jesus (Daniel 11:31 as well as the Woe of the 6th trumpet in Rev 9. This causes people to stop fighting against the one world political peace system as lucifer heals it , reinstates the one worldism along with a one world religious system... so it is then a one world political and religious system for 2.5 months.

People who get deceived into thinking it is Jesus , (when in fact it is Lucifer disguised instead of Jesus,) are the ones who take the mark of the beast. Those who refuse this system will not be able to buy /sell.

God sends the 2 witnesses (that last 2.5 months) and some people repent. Lucifer kills the 2 witnesses and is when Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet . Anyone who has not repented and has that MOTB still goes into the Great Tribulation Wrath for 1000 years mellenium.
Those who stand firm against satan are gathered to Jesus at the last trumpet, the 7th trumpet and do not go thru the Wrath of God Great Trib..

so...


There are 2 tribulations.
#1 is Lucifer/satan/the devil/the dragon gets cast down from Heaven to Earth for 5 months/1 hour starting at the Woe of the 5th trumpet, along with the fallen angels

followed by

#2 God's THE Great Tribulation/= Wrath of God , =the mellenium for 1000 years.
Any one who has not repented or is still following satan taking that mark of the beast has to go thru the Wrath.
Everyone goes thru the 5 months/hour of satans trib.
The gathering occurs at the Last trumpet/the 7th

 

[keras]

People love to add to and embellish a simple verse; Rev 8:1.
All it says is; there will be a period when God in heaven, will keep silent, obviously as the earth will be in the turmoil of the end times.

The time gap is between the Sixth Seal and the glorious Return of Jesus to reign for the next thousand years.
Which must be at least 15 years, in order to complete the Prophesies to happen during that time, proved by the calculation of 1/48th of a day in heaven equalling about 15 to 25 years earth time. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

 

[Zao is life]

THE BIBLE ON:-

1. Wrath.
2. Judgment.
3. Universal Judgment.
4. Persecution.
5. Tribulation.
6. Great Tribulation.

WRATH

God's wrath has been poured out upon people and nations over the course of human history, but it has not necessarily been poured out upon the whole world in each case (for example: Exodus 15:3-7).

JUDGMENT

God's wrath being poured out upon a people is always a judgement, since it is always produced by God’s burning anger, but it’s not always a final judgement nor is it always a universal judgment:

A final judgement did not come upon Jerusalem when the wrath of God came upon the city at the time Jerusalem was destroyed by the armies of Babylon, but a final judgement did come upon Babylon (Jeremiah 50:13) when the wrath of God came upon the city a few decades later.

Hundreds of years later, Jesus prophesied about another judgement that was to come upon the people of Jerusalem, and He mentions this judgement as coming about as a result of God’s wrath:

"But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress (ἀνάγκη anánkē) in the land and wrath (ὀργή orgḗ) upon this people." (Luke 21:23).

Notice the above is not called tribulation in the above verse, but wrath.

UNIVERSAL JUDGMENT

The first time in the Bible that we read about humanity being universally judged is in the account of the flood in Genesis, when only the elect (Noah and his family) were saved.

The last time we read about humanity being universally judged is in the Revelation, where we read about fire coming down from heaven and destroying the armies of the rebellious nations who had surrounded the camp of the saints (Revelation 20:9).

TRIBULATION AND GREAT TRIBULATION

Silence in Heaven

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. “When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995 “And...

www.christianforums.com

We can either take out of the scripture what is written (exegete), or we can insert our own interpretation into it (eisegete). The choice is ours.

 

[keras]

We can either take out of the scripture what is written (exegete), or we can insert our own interpretation into it (eisegete). The choice is ours.

Isn't it rather obvious that the Sixth Seal will be the time of Jacobs Trouble?
The terrible Day of disaster, when all military strength will be lost. Hosea 1-:14-14

 

[Zao is life]

Isn't it rather obvious that the Sixth Seal will be the time of Jacobs Trouble?
The terrible Day of disaster, when all military strength will be lost. Hosea 1-:14-14

?

Hello Keras. I wasn't referring to or quoting anything you said, and you're not quoting out of Hosea in your quote above.

It's Jeremiah 30.

3 For, lo, the days come, says the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, says the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the LORD spoke concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

We know who Judah is. Who is Israel?

7 Alas, what a terrible time of trouble it is! There has never been any like it. It is a time of trouble for the descendants of Jacob, but some of them will be rescued out of it.

= twelve tribes. Where are the lost ten tribes of Israel?

 

[Zao is life]

There are 2 tribulations... not just one

and people also get messed up in the "terminology"...

These words are all one and the same:...THE Great Tribulation/= The Wrath of God , =the mellenium for 1000 years= The Day of the lord= The 2nd advent which is at the 7th trumpet THE LAST TRUMPET= Jacobs trouble

There are 2 tribulations..
1.) satans trib. which is that 5 month period of Rev 9 which is the Daniel 9:27 covenant... the 7 years has been shortened from 7 years to 5 months... If God had not shortened those days, (the 7 years) there would be no flesh saved(Matthew 24:22)
satan/lucifer is literally here on earth when he gets cast out of Heaven to earth(Rev 12:7) for 5 months... satans 5 month tribulation


2.)This 5 month period is THEN followed by God's tribulation: the 7th trumpet, when Jesus returns at the last trumpet..which is the Wrath/The great trib,/ the 2nd advent/ 1000 year mellenium./Jacobs trouble... the 2nd tribulation.

2 different tribs.

And unless "those days" were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.("those days" are 7 years to 5 months os satans tribulation)

A "Day" is as a thousand years.

The only ones who go thru the Wrath then, (the 1000 years)are those who are deceived into following satan when he falsely claims to be Jesus returned.

Those who stand firm against satan when he is here, receive the 1st resurrection reward at the 2nd advent/7th trumpet.
The rest have to go thru the mellenium/wrath/Jacob's trouble/ Day of the Lord 1000 years.. and receive the 2nd resurrection if they choose Jesus at the end of that 1000 years when satan is again released from the pit to test them.

Satan and the fallen angels get kicked out to earth Rev 12:7; Daniel 11:21( the vile person)
Rev 13 tells us 10 of the fallen angels (under the direction of the devil/satan/lucifer/dragon) set up the Daniel 9:27 one world political peace plan which lasts 2.5 months.

(God shortened the 7 years to 5 months as Rev 9 declares as well as Matthew because unless God did not shorten the days, no flesh would be saved.)

Not everyone goes along with this one world peace plan thus it falls apart(called the deadly wound in Rev 9)

Then Lucifer makes his actual appearance to the world claiming to be Jesus (Daniel 11:31 as well as the Woe of the 6th trumpet in Rev 9. This causes people to stop fighting against the one world political peace system as lucifer heals it , reinstates the one worldism along with a one world religious system... so it is then a one world political and religious system for 2.5 months.

People who get deceived into thinking it is Jesus , (when in fact it is Lucifer disguised instead of Jesus,) are the ones who take the mark of the beast. Those who refuse this system will not be able to buy /sell.

God sends the 2 witnesses (that last 2.5 months) and some people repent. Lucifer kills the 2 witnesses and is when Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet . Anyone who has not repented and has that MOTB still goes into the Great Tribulation Wrath for 1000 years mellenium.
Those who stand firm against satan are gathered to Jesus at the last trumpet, the 7th trumpet and do not go thru the Wrath of God Great Trib..

so...


There are 2 tribulations.
#1 is Lucifer/satan/the devil/the dragon gets cast down from Heaven to Earth for 5 months/1 hour starting at the Woe of the 5th trumpet, along with the fallen angels

followed by

#2 God's THE Great Tribulation/= Wrath of God , =the mellenium for 1000 years.
Any one who has not repented or is still following satan taking that mark of the beast has to go thru the Wrath.
Everyone goes thru the 5 months/hour of satans trib.
The gathering occurs at the Last trumpet/the 7th

The Biblical authors did not read what we wrote or interpret what we say. The Bible does not use our own personal choices of terminology.

Jesus and the biblical authors invented their own terminology, and chose the words they would use in reference to the tribulation that the saints will experience in the world (whenever Jesus spoke about, or the apostles wrote about the tribulation the saints would experience in the world), and this includes the greatest period of tribulation that would ever be,

and they invented their own terminology when they spoke about the judgment / wrath of God that will come upon the world.

So we can use our own terminology all we like and ignore Biblical terminology all we like when we interpret the Bible the way we choose to, but the Bible does not use our terminology. It uses its own.

Silence in Heaven

I have reason to believe the silence in heaven that comes after the Lamb opens the seventh seal is the Time of Jacob’s Distress, as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. “When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1, NASB1995 “And...

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[keras]

Hello Keras. I wasn't referring to or quoting anything you said, and you're not quoting out of Hosea in your quote above.

I messed up that reference! Should be: Hosea 1:1-4 A Prophecy of how the Lord will wipe the holy Land clean.
My point is to show the all military strength will be gone after the Sixth Seal event:
Jer. 50:22-23 The noise of battle is heard, see how the hammer of the whole world is broken.

Hosea 2:18 ...I shall break the bow and all weapons of war and sweep them off the earth.

Micah 5:5-11 On that Day, I will destroy your military fortifications.

Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against the fortified cities and towns.

Isaiah 30:25b On the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall.

Amos 5:9 Destruction will flash forth onto the mighty, against their strongholds.

Jeremiah 50:27 Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

We know who Judah is. Who is Israel?

Paul makes that clear in Galatians 6:14-16

= twelve tribes. Where are the lost ten tribes of Israel?

Still scattered around the world. They are the Christian peoples, now from every tribe, race, nation and language.

 

[Zao is life]

I messed up that reference! Should be: Hosea 1:1-4 A Prophecy of how the Lord will wipe the holy Land clean.

Hosea 1 is a prophecy about how God was going to (still future tense when the prophecy was given) destroy the Northern kingdom of Israel because of their idolatry, and cut them off as a people. It took place in 722 B.C, and did not affect the Southern kingdom of Judah. It wasn't the Jews, a.k.a the house of Judah. It was the house of Israel. The prophecy is not a prophecy of judgment against the Jews at all.

There will be no repeat because there is no house of Israel consisting of Ephraim (the Northern tribes). If there is a repeat then it means that God is going to wipe the land clean of the fullness of the Gentiles (Ephraim), since it is not speaking of the Jews. Your interpretation of the above makes no sense.

Jeremiah, like Isaiah and most prophets, oscillates between one subject and another and between one epoch and anther, between prophesying of judgment against the Northern kingdom of Israel and prophesying of the restoration of both Israel and Judah, between prophesying of judgment against Judah, and prophesying of the restoration of Judah or of the restoration of Israel and Judah, between prophesying of judgment of Judah at the hand of Babylon to prophesying of judgment against Babylon at whose hand Judah was judged.

Everything that you are reading in Jeremiah 50 was fulfilled in the 6th century B.C. In some ways it will be repeated because Babylon is a type of "the nations" and its judgment the type of the judgment of the nations.

My point is to show the all military strength will be gone after the Sixth Seal event:
Jer. 50:22-23 The noise of battle is heard, see how the hammer of the whole world is broken.

The sixth seal event is contemporary with the sixth bowl of wrath immediately before the return of Christ. It's also contemporary with the 6th trumpet - 666. Armies are being gathered for battle and the kings of the earth who had committed fornication with the harlot which has now been destroyed are calling on the rocks to fall on them rather than to face the wrath of the Lamb which they realize is about to be poured out.

Details of military equipment is only symbolically represented in the Revelation but not accurately described because it's unnecessary. What matters is the spiritual war taking place and the return of Christ and the fact that the nations will be judged.

You add a lot of stuff that isn't written and conflate a lot of Old Testament prophecy with the Revelation that does not belong with the Revelation because the prophecy belonged in an epoch long past, IMO.

 

[keras]

The sixth seal event is contemporary with the sixth bowl of wrath immediately before the return of Christ. It's also contemporary with the 6th trumpet

This belief is wrong and shown to be wrong by the fact that the seals of a scroll must be removed before its contents cab happen.
Mixing up the given sequence of Revelation. - the 7 Seals, the 7 Trumpets, then the 7 Bowls, is gross error and hopeless confusion.

You add a lot of stuff that isn't written and conflate a lot of Old Testament prophecy with the Revelation that does not belong with the Revelation because the prophecy belonged in an epoch long past, IMO.

Your preterist opinion counts for nothing.
Very few OT prophesies have been literarily fulfilled, those that have like; Jesus riding on a donkey, did literally happen. Why should the rest not be?

 

[Zao is life]

This belief is wrong and shown to be wrong by the fact that the seals of a scroll must be removed before its contents cab happen.
Mixing up the given sequence of Revelation. - the 7 Seals, the 7 Trumpets, then the 7 Bowls, is gross error and hopeless confusion.

IMO hopeless confusion stems from the fact that you conflate the seals that a scroll has been sealed with, with the contents of the scroll that they seal, including the events that are being prophesied about in the scroll,

and take the things John saw when the seals were opened to be the events rather than visions symbolizing the events that are written about in the scroll.

Your preterist opinion counts for nothing.
Very few OT prophesies have been literarily fulfilled, those that have like; Jesus riding on a donkey, did literally happen. Why should the rest not be?

LOL.

Well anyway, I trust in the LORD with all my heart and do not lean on my own understanding, and I certainly don't hold to any belief that I would understand Biblical prophecy at all without a basic knowledge of history and especially of the history of ancient Israel and the ancient empires of Assyria, then of Babylon, and then of Media-Persia.
​

By the assertions you have made, you have it that the prophets of old were not talking to ancient Israel and the ancient Israelites about the above kingdoms at all, nor about God's punishment of ancient Israel's waywardness at the hand of those ancient kingdoms at all, nor about the restoration of Judah from captivity in Babylon, at all.

Actually, the above historical events as well as the promised coming of Messiah make up the bulk of Old Testament prophecy, and you have once again shown me that you have a magic PC mouse that exists in your head, which by your (extremely imaginative) interpretation of Biblical prophetic scripture, you use to highlight and cut Old Testament historical events and the prophecies associated with them out of the historically-fulfilled epoch where they belong, and paste them into the close of the New Testament age of grace.

There are some prophetic events written about in Old Testament prophecy that clearly have never been fulfilled - such as the attack of all nations against Jerusalem in a day when Messiah sets His feet on the Mount of Olives and goes out to fight against those nations, destroying them.

So as seen once again in your above post, you ignore the facts of history, and instead just arbitrarily pick and choose which prophecies have been historically fulfilled, and which have not been fulfilled (which shows gross ignorance on your part of recorded history - much of which has been confirmed by archaeology as having already taken place).​

 

[keras]

take the things John saw when the seals were opened to be the events rather than visions symbolizing the events that are written about in the scroll.

Thinking the Words of Revelation 6 are just information is obvious error. Jesus opened the first Five Seals at His Ascension, as Rev 6 tells us. But the Sixth Seal remains unfulfilled, soon to happen, when an attempt to nuke Israel is tried.

you ignore the facts of history

Only someone with an agenda to push, sees most of the Prophesies fulfilled. A lot have been partially; but final and complete fulfilment is yet to happen with the majority of the Prophetic Word.

It is your extremely imaginative interpretation that thinks archaeology confirms Prophecy fulfilment.

 

[Zao is life]

Only someone with an agenda to push, sees most of the Prophesies fulfilled. A lot have been partially; but final and complete fulfilment is yet to happen with the majority of the Prophetic Word.

Actually it's someone who checks up on history and reads commentaries by Christian historians and by people a lot more informed than you, who are also more honest than you are with yourself about what was fulfilled historically.

What you express a lot of the time is your own self-deception.

 

[keras]

What you express a lot of the time is your own self-deception.

What you express all of the time; is your own opinions and beliefs.

Like many people, the idea that you personally will have to face dramatic events and difficult situations is abhorrent, so rejection of the God given warnings is necessary.
This is most unfortunate, especially for a Bible believer to be in the dark about Gods plans for the future of His people.

So; do you NOT think Iran will try to nuke Israel?