Should Christians oppose gay civil marriage?

[brightmorningstar]

To Chalice_Thunder,
I don’t think so. Sorry no mutual agreement at all. The NIV is a translation which included some interpretation, if you take the NIV, KJV, NKJV, ESV, amongst others, one can se you don’t believe any of them.

Then you appear to take the words on WHAT YOU SEE as face value.

Yet you appear not only not to take them at face value but propose the opposite. As I said what you call interpretation I call disbelief.

Unfortunately (actually, fortunately), there are plenty of Christians who see it differently than you.

Depends who you think are Christians and what you think Christians believe. I should avoid judgements on who you think are and aren’t not Christians, its against the guidelines, focus on the views as to whether they are Christian or not.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

To Chalice_Thunder,
I don’t think so. Sorry no mutual agreement at all. The NIV is a translation which included some interpretation, if you take the NIV, KJV, NKJV, ESV, amongst others, one can se you don’t believe any of them.

Yet you appear not only not to take them at face value but propose the opposite. As I said what you call interpretation I call disbelief.

Depends who you think are Christians and what you think Christians believe. I should avoid judgements on who you think are and aren’t not Christians, its against the guidelines, focus on the views as to whether they are Christian or not.

Again - it's ALL your interpretation.

You can accuse me of disbelief. Truly I DO disbelieve your viewpoint, with full conviction.

I also believe that Jesus is the Lord of my life, he came to show us the Way, dying and rising, offering the full and final sacrifice.

Just because I do not believe the way you do does not make me an unbeliever.

 

[Brennin]

If one makes recourse to the original Greek, the proscriptions against homoeroticism are just as pronounced.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

If one makes recourse to the original Greek, the proscriptions against homoeroticism are just as pronounced.

Homoeroticism is not the same thing as faithful, monogamous relationship - any more than Heteroeroticism is.

 

[SughaNSpice]

It's ludicrous to use racism attacks on actions that people CAN control and should control.

Jesus said to pick up our crosses daily - we die to self every day that we don't live in the natural desires of our flesh when they involve sin.

I have been all through this thread and the only person to even imply that someone else is a racist was dogbean. (In #616 and #650 - and a couple other places too)

and didn’t you used to be FloatingAxe?

 

[Brennin]

Homoeroticism is not the same thing as faithful, monogamous relationship - any more than Heteroeroticism is.

As far as the condemnations in the text are concerned, it does not matter whether people are in a "long-term relationship" or not. Personally, I think homosexuals who refrain from sleeping around deserve less condemnation but even so, I do not accept that same-sex unions are congruent with genuine Christianity, as you know.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

As far as the condemnations in the text are concerned, it does not matter whether people are in a "long-term relationship" or not. Personally, I think homosexuals who refrain from sleeping around deserve less condemnation but even so, I do not accept that same-sex unions are congruent with genuine Christianity, as you know.

Yep, I know that's how you feel, bro.

And you know that my position is that my 24 year marriage to the same man is a blessing from and a glory to God.

We just have to disagree in brotherhood.

 

[Brennin]

Yep, I know that's how you feel, bro.

And you know that my position is that my 24 year marriage to the same man is a blessing from and a glory to God.

We just have to disagree in brotherhood.

I still think you're a nice guy.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I still think you're a nice guy.

That's always been mutual, pal!

 

[Dogbean]

I have been all through this thread and the only person to even imply that someone else is a racist was dogbean. (In #616 and #650 - and a couple other places too)

and didn’t you used to be FloatingAxe?

And the only reason I accused that person of being racist was by his posts. If I am wrong in my assessment I would love to be shown, but to this day the accused has yet to dispute my assessment.

 

[Inviolable]

I’m still waiting for something that isn’t recycled racism

That's funny because like 40 pages ago I debunked the bigot thing by explaining how being gay is abnormal.

And here we are again "40" pages later with the bigot thing.

Bigot fig-et fo-gig-et banana!
Bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot... it's a bigot stamp so you wont have to type it repeatedly. On "every" "single" "debate".


Seriously...
Is there a chance you're gay? You do seem to go into these debates headstrong and with out thought. I'm not saying you are gay just wondering because of the overwhelming passion you have that keeps you on the same track. "The exact same track". Which kind of keeps you from giving a rational thought. Which in and of itself can keep someone from responding rationally. Or comprehending what someone else is really saying.
Which could be disruptive to the topic, as well as rational conversations being held on the subject matter.

Which is in fact the actions a bigot would take. You don't dislike heterosexuals do you?
Definition of a bigot...
"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or (opinion)."

The same thoughts that keep homosexuals from getting married are just (opinion) and yet they dictate our reality.

Intolerance can be guided by intense passion. Which could cause a person to repeat themselves. I've heard arguments from the people you're calling bigots and I don't see where they're "utterly intolerant" of homosexuals.
They seem to be trying to reach an understanding.
For instance, an intolerant person would be mocking what I've just said.
"They seem to be trying to reach an understanding."
While a rational person would be trying to show me the flaws in that understanding and where it effects them on a negative level.

That's how thoughts and ideas grow and blossom into something everyone can enjoy.
The world doesn't progress until bad thoughts and ideas on any subject, are a thing of the past. Give heterosexuality a chance!
We only want to live together in peace and harmony!!
Down with heterosexual prejudice!







































Don't make me shove a flower in your keyboard.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Chalice_Thunder,
.

Again - it's ALL your interpretation.

Again no it isn’t. I think there is a breakdown in communication. I quoted the Bible which I didn’t write, to interpret a Bible text one has to have a text to work with in the first place. Because you don’t like what the Biblical texts say on the subject you are trying to make out disbelief is interpretation.

You can accuse me of disbelief. Truly I DO disbelieve your viewpoint, with full conviction.

I do accuse you of disbelief, I cant deny what is obvious just to please people.

Just because I do not believe the way you do does not make me an unbeliever.

No of course not, but what makes you an unbeliever on the subject is that you don’t believe Jesus teaching presented to you from the Bible.

Homoeroticism is not the same thing as faithful, monogamous relationship - any more than Heteroeroticism is.

well in Biblical terms it is, but seeing as you mentioned it can you show an example of faithful monogamous homosexual relationships in contemporary Greek culture.

And you know that my position is that my 24 year marriage to the same man is a blessing from and a glory to God.

But sadly for you I don’t consider that marriage, rather its perversion and against God’ s purposes as seen in His word.

We just have to disagree in brotherhood

'fraid not for me, if you aren’t prepared to be restored from sin (Galatians 1) we can’t have brotherhood, (1 Cor 5)

 

[ChaliceThunder]

To Chalice_Thunder,
.
Again no it isn’t. I think there is a breakdown in communication. I quoted the Bible which I didn’t write, to interpret a Bible text one has to have a text to work with in the first place. Because you don’t like what the Biblical texts say on the subject you are trying to make out disbelief is interpretation.

I do accuse you of disbelief, I cant deny what is obvious just to please people.

No of course not, but what makes you an unbeliever on the subject is that you don’t believe Jesus teaching presented to you from the Bible.

well in Biblical terms it is, but seeing as you mentioned it can you show an example of faithful monogamous homosexual relationships in contemporary Greek culture.

But sadly for you I don’t consider that marriage, rather its perversion and against God’ s purposes as seen in His word.

'fraid not for me, if you aren’t prepared to be restored from sin (Galatians 1) we can’t have brotherhood, (1 Cor 5)

Then it is your choice to not live in the grace of reconciliation.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Chalice_Thunder,

Then it is your choice to not live in the grace of reconciliation.

Which means what? I live under the grace of God through Jesus Christ, so I am happy enough. My view, like that of most Christians worldwide is that same sex unions represents such a significant and fundamental departure from the historic and apostolic faith that we can no longer fellowship in association with Jesus Christ… we merely love them as friends.
Besides this is what 1 Corinthians 5 says. You know its not up to the adulterer to say whether they think adultery is wrong, nor the gossiper to say whether they think gossoping is wrong, the word of God clearly says so. Nor is it up to the homosexual to say whether they think same sex unions are wrong, the word of God says so.

In fact the grace of God is His undeserved favour that Jesus Christ died for us whilst we were still sinners. If you are disputing one of the sins you are indulging in how can you know the grace?

 

[ChaliceThunder]

To Chalice_Thunder,
Which means what? I live under the grace of God through Jesus Christ, so I am happy enough. My view, like that of most Christians worldwide is that same sex unions represents such a significant and fundamental departure from the historic and apostolic faith that we can no longer fellowship in association with Jesus Christ… we merely love them as friends.
Besides this is what 1 Corinthians 5 says. You know its not up to the adulterer to say whether they think adultery is wrong, nor the gossiper to say whether they think gossoping is wrong, the word of God clearly says so. Nor is it up to the homosexual to say whether they think same sex unions are wrong, the word of God says so.

In fact the grace of God is His undeserved favour that Jesus Christ died for us whilst we were still sinners. If you are disputing one of the sins you are indulging in how can you know the grace?

I said: We just have to disagree in brotherhood.

to which you responded: 'fraid not for me, if you aren’t prepared to be restored from sin (Galatians 1) we can’t have brotherhood, (1 Cor 5)
_______

I am not disputing my sins. I strive to confess them.
Of course, you are interpreting that my being gay is a sin. (it's not)
So I offered to disagree as brothers in Christ.
You are the one who refused that.
Grace?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Chalice_Thunder,

I said: We just have to disagree in brotherhood.

I said no we wont. We will have to disagree as friends and fellow forum posters. J

I am not disputing my sins. I strive to confess them.

The issue is not your sins but about what God’s purposes are for faithful man/woman marriage and whether Christians should oppose same sex unions in society.

So I offered to disagree as brothers in Christ.

And brothers in Christ know that same sex unions are error and they have been set free, washed and sanctified, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1, Romans 1 etc. 1 Corinthians 5 says “11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. “

You are the one who refused that.

Are you asking me to disbelieve Jesus NT teaching now as well?

Grace?

Its no good putting a question mark, I asked you what grace you are talking about, I have no idea what grace you are referring to, I have told you which grace I am grateful for.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

God's grace should be enough for us to live as brothers in Christ - even when we disagree.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Chalice_Thunder,
I am sure you are a nice person, you debate civilly as well, but I do not accept what you are saying.

God's grace should be enough for us to live as brothers in Christ - even when we disagree.

Sorry but all you are giving me is your own personal opinions and feelings. God’s grace is that Jesus died for us whilst we were still sinners, (Romans 5) if you are disputing one of those sins, same sex unions, (Romans 1) then how can you know God’s grace? Being in Christ, means obeying His teaching, which we have in the NT. 1 Corinthians 5 says don’t associate with the sexually immoral who call themselves brothers. As you are not only promoting sexual immorality of same sex unions but actively claiming God has endorsed it, I am not to associate with you as a brother in Christ. So please don’t suggest I do.

Now should you wish to repent I would have to do all I can to support and encourage you to restore from the sin as a brother in Christ. (Galatians 6)

 

[ChaliceThunder]

To Chalice_Thunder,
I am sure you are a nice person, you debate civilly as well, but I do not accept what you are saying.
Sorry but all you are giving me is your own personal opinions and feelings. God’s grace is that Jesus died for us whilst we were still sinners, (Romans 5) if you are disputing one of those sins, same sex unions, (Romans 1) then how can you know God’s grace? Being in Christ, means obeying His teaching, which we have in the NT. 1 Corinthians 5 says don’t associate with the sexually immoral who call themselves brothers. As you are not only promoting sexual immorality of same sex unions but actively claiming God has endorsed it, I am not to associate with you as a brother in Christ. So please don’t suggest I do.

Now should you wish to repent I would have to do all I can to support and encourage you to restore from the sin as a brother in Christ. (Galatians 6)

Your choice.
Bless you anyway.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To ChaliceThunder,
Bless you too. Yes I choose to follow Jesus Christ and His teaching in as I have demonstrated in this matter. But on the subject in discussion quite where you are getting your ideas from I am at a loss to discern.