Scripture and Tradition

[Orthosdoxa]

I am interested in reading more about Mary being lifted up to heaven in the bible. Could anyone please give me a starting point and some verses to study?

It's not in the Bible. We are not Sola Scriptura. For 1500 years, the Church relied on written Scriptures and what their forefathers handed down. Then Martin Luther decided that he knew better and began to insist on Scripture alone. But that is a very "new" idea, and not one even found in the Bible itself, which tells us to hold fast to the Traditions that the Apostles handed down. (II Thess 2:15)

 

[lovemysoldier]

Are there orthodox churches that do not pray to Mary and do not embrace this teaching?

I am saddened that I found this thread so late in the evening. It is past midnight and my boys will be up and about in a few hours and I must go to bed. I look forward to reading your posts in the morning.

 

[Marjorie]

I would like to know if it is required that I only confess to the church? I feel that it would damage me spiritually if I had to wait.

Oh no, you don't only confess to the Church. You confess to all your brothers and sisters, and you confess to God. The sacrament of confession is the means by which we most perfectly confess to God and our brethren (represented by the priest) and receive absolution, but of course, we are to confess continually.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Marjorie]

Just a note-- we don't really "pray to Mary" per se. We ask her to pray for us, just as you might ask me to pray for you. The reason that she above all is asked for prayers is that she is the "icon of the Church" and the image of what we shall become (in other words, she is the representation of all Christians, who must approach God in our fallen poverty surrendering ourselves: "Behold the handmaid-- or servant-- of the Lord: let it be done to me according to your word.")

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I am interested in reading more about Mary being lifted up to heaven in the bible. Could anyone please give me a starting point and some verses to study?

Hi, Lovemysoldier! This question fits right into the theme of this thread. Much of what the Church teaches on Mary is found in the Tradition of the Church. What is Tradition? Both written (scripture) and oral imputation of how God has revealed Himself to His Church. Teachings about Mary are mostly from oral based tradition, meaning they are not found in the Bible. The Orthodox Church is not what you'd call "sola scriptura", meaning we do not rely only on the written tradition (Bible). There actually is at least one Bible verse that addresses the importance of keeping the oral traditions along with written, and handing them down. I'll have to go look it up.

RE: Confession. No, you do not have to wait to do a formal confession with a priest to repent. Orthodoxy is ALL ABOUT having an intense prayer life. We can cofess our sins in our personal prayer time, but it brings even more healing to confess them before a priest and receive absolution. Confession brings healing. Repentence is sometimes called the baptism of tears because our soul is cleansed. Can repentence only happen if you've confessed to a priest? Well, not necessarily, but it is certainly more likely to happen when you are accountable to the Church for your actions. We believe that sin does not just affect ourselves, but the entire Body. Prayer and Communion with God and our fellow brethren are very ingrained into the life of the Church. Now, can God forgive us if we confess at home (not in the presence of a priest)? Well, God is not limited to the confines of our parish, so of course He can. However, we cannot skip or overlook the importance of the sacrament of Confession. Again, it brings both healing and accountiblity into our relationship with God. We are not really confessing to our priest, we our confessing to God in the presence of a priest, who represents Christ.

I hope I haven't lost you. I'm not very good at explaining things. Please feel free to ask for clarification.

 

[Marjorie]

BTW Kat I, like, NEVER can rep you! (Same goes for Tracy.)

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[The Virginian]

LoveMysoldier

Your name implies that you are either the mate of, or the parentof someone in the military. GOD BLESS YOU!

One of your questions was about the Virgin Mary, her assumption (transportation) into heaven, and where you could read about it. As others have pointed out, that particular event is not in the pages of the Canon of the Bible; however it can be found within the pages what the Church knows as The Proto-evangelism of James. GDE I believe, has already posted about Tradition, and sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), so you know that the Orthodox cherish written records more than just the 60+ books of the Protestant Bible.

You also asked about Confession; and in particular, confession to the Church. There's a special season of the Church year called Great Lent, which lasts for forty days. One Sunday in that time frame is called Frogiveness Sunday. Those in the congregation literally ask forgiveness of all present; this is the cnngregational scale of what Our Lord commands on the personal/ individual level, "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift". (Matt.5:23,24)
This command of confession (which someone else has referenced) the Apostle James links to personal life, wherein the Church derives the mystery/sacrament of Confession. So, you see, confession covers the personal life(your relationship with God), the Church life , and your social life.
First and foremost, we confess to God Almighty; it is then a matter of humbly submitting ourselves to the disciplines of God commands, and the Church authorities. As Anonykat has said, "our actions often resonate deeply into the lives of others". We are a body, the community of the faithful.
Although we were received into Orthodoxy a few years ago, my wife and I are trying to get to the point where our lives revolve around the Church year, and not around the 4H or the Home School Group schedule. Making such a switch is also very important for spiritual growth, and having an Orthodox mindset, as you've noted.



asaus

 

[The Virginian]

HHMMMM!!!

There is in Orthodox tradition, a writing known as the "Proto-Evangelism of James." As you've guessed, this 'book', is not within the pages of the Bible. I'm not aware of whether or not this is the only non-biblical text, which goes into detail about the "Dormition of The Theotokos.

RE: CONFESSION . Grand_Duchess' post #45 above without saying so, poses the question: Well, if true repentence can happen, without going to the priest for confession, why do I need to go at all? That's simple! (sorry I tend to do that a lot). Confession is one of those matters which the Church calls a sacrament, or in Orthodoxy, a 'mystery'. Which lets you know, that not everything can be satisfactorily explained. The Sacraments are rites/ceremonies established within the Church by Jesus, through which the grace and mercy of God are made real to us sinners. That being said, it's easier to see that which was posted earlier, the purpose of confession, is to bring healing. Seguay to; why go at all?

this ties into what someone said -probably in another thread- that our actions "...resonate deep into the lives of others." The Apostle Paul wrote it this way to the Corinthians: "...Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our afflictions, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God...." None of us live in isolation, and especially as the Church, the body of Christ we live in communion with one another, so that if one member suffers, we all suffer. And, if one rejoices we all rejoice. We take the 'healing' we receive in the confessional out into every area of our being; and so, we live sacramentally.

Clear as mud?



asaus

 

[Hunter3000]

As for Holy Confession are we forgetting what the Scripture says of it?

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” (John 20:19-23)

Yes, we confess to the Holy Spirit, but through the Priest.

 

[postodave]

As far as I can make out this is exactly what I believe as a protestant anyway.

 

[ProScribe]

Covered this topic in this thread:http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7244350

 

[ProScribe]

PS: Can someone provide a little background info. as to who Vincent of Lerins was? Florovsky did not go into any personal details about him.

St. Vicent of Lerins is an ECF A.D 450 of the Patristic age.[Quote#]

[20,25] 2172 He is a true and genuine Catholic who loves the truth of God, the Church, and the Body of Christ; who puts nothing else before divine religion and the Catholic Faith, neither the authority nor the love nor the genius nor the eloquence nor the philosophy of any man whatsoever, but despising all that and being fixed, stable, and persevering in his faith, is determined in himself to hold and believe that only which he knows the Catholic Church has held universally from ancient times.

source:Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky
[The truths of faith which are contained in Sacred Scripture and the Apostolic Sacred Tradition give the fullness of the teaching of faith which was called by the ancient Fathers of the Church the "catholic faith", the "catholic teaching" of the Church] pg.31

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

Virginian.

That was informative. Thanks.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

LovemySoldier,

God Bless your soldier.