Sabbath?

[suz85]

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Point 5 of Non-Denom Statement of Faith .

The members of this Non-denominational forum believe that one is saved by grace and not by works of the law (sabbath, and dietary laws are just two examples), and they worship on Sunday. Promotion of the doctrine of salvation by works and Saturday (seventh-day) worship is not allowed. Please discuss these topics in General Theology.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

I do not know if this is the best place to ask about the Sabbath here but the better places to ask about it is in the Denomination-Specific forum, General Theology or the traditional Adventist forum.

But let me try to give an answer in short. Jesus didn't come to free us from keeping the commandments, he came to save us from the penalty of sin. As this grace is not made available, it is not an excuse to sin. In fact God forbids that we sin because of his abounding grace. My advice to you would be to obey as much as you can the commandments of God because that is what Jesus did when he was on earth. He loved God and kept his commandments and if you love God you should keep his commandments too.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God doesn't like sin because of what it does to us .

the following of commandments can be sinful too .

it's all about the motivation behind what you're doing .

 

[NatalieJan777]

Do not listen to man, ask GOD HIMSELF, pray and continue to pray until you get a direct answer from HIM alone. May GOD BLESS!

 

[Big Drew]

Where is it stated that Gentiles should live as Jews? Seems to me that Paul was not a fan of Judaizers...

If someone wants to observe the Law that's fine...but I don't see it as a necessity...

 

[Winken]

Coluld we keep this forum free of sabbath discussions, pls. There's a Theology forum for that.

 

[Historicus]

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[Johnnz]

The command to keep the Sabbath was only made within the Mosaic covenant, which is now superceded by Christ. Thus we are under no obligation. The NT church seems to have met on Sundays very early on, indicating those believers saw th eOld Covemant as having passed.

John
NZ

 

[bugkiller]

I do not know if this is the best place to ask about the Sabbath here but the better places to ask about it is in the Denomination-Specific forum, General Theology or the traditional Adventist forum.

But let me try to give an answer in short. Jesus didn't come to free us from keeping the commandments, he came to save us from the penalty of sin. As this grace is not made available, it is not an excuse to sin. In fact God forbids that we sin because of his abounding grace. My advice to you would be to obey as much as you can the commandments of God because that is what Jesus did when he was on earth. He loved God and kept his commandments and if you love God you should keep his commandments too.

This is an amazing statement on a couple of fronts.

Here you calim that Jesus kept God's commandments while showing that God to be different than Jesus. It also seems to me that you say that Jesus is not God by the statement that Jesus loved God. We know that Jesus kept the ten commandments which is what you must be referencing when you suggest that we keep His commandments. How then do you claim that Jesus issued the ten commandments? This is contrary to the claim that is usually supported by John 14:15 and I always counter with John 15:10 to show that Jesus did not issue the ten commandments. I further show that Moses did not have a conversation with Jesus at Mt Sinai with Exodus 33:20 where Moses was forbidden to see Who he was talking with. If it was Jesus, Moses or God lied. God does not change as you commonly claim with Malachi 3:6. Something is fishy would not you say so? Thousands have seen and identified Jesus and lived.

You further more do not accept the NC as something both new and different as prophicied in Jer 31:31-34. Even without getting into the discussion of the word new as I usually do even a casual reading will show that the new covenant (NC) is different than the one issued at Sinai. Deut 4:13 shows the covenant issued at Sinai as the ten commandments written on stone. Further backing up my idea is Deut 5:2-5. I don't know what NC you might be talking about if you deny that the prophecied NC in Jer 31:31-34 is not the one that Jesus testified as being in existence in Mat 26:28.

There is no reference in all of the NT showing any obligation to the ten commandments for the Christian. In fact Acts 15 proves this fact without anyfurther evidence.

The sabbath is not found outside of the law (ten commandments) anywhere in scripture. It was not instituted on the seventh day of creation either. The word rested is misconstrued by your denomination. Here is the verse often cited for proof from the Tanach (Stone ed.) - By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done and He abstained on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Gen 2:2.

Now I also ask what did God bless the seventh day or the Sabbath? The word Sabbath (a noun) does not appear until Ex 16 aproximately 30 days prior to issuing the ten commandments. Your Sabbath champion Dr Sam B also a professor at your college, Andrews in B. Springs who passed away just last December stated that there is no proof that anyone observed the Sabbath prior to Ex 16. He calls any such claim mere sepculation with no valid proof. So feel free to quote Gen 26:5 as proof that Abraham did so. I have a great counter for that too. Lets start with Deut 5:2-5 and follow up with Gal 3:17 and that the law (which includes the ten commandments) had a limited shelf life in v 19 which states it was added till the Seed should come. The same verse also gives the/a purpose of the law. If the law was added 430 years after Abraham, how did he obey it? It was not in existence during his life time.

Where does the scripture show that Jesus (God) assembled with anyone on the Sabbath after the cross? Do you not understand what an uproar such an event would cause in Jerusalem? Jesus was present for an addtional 40 days after the resurrection.

I have one more question for you. Where does the NT say we are to keep the Sabbath? I can't find it.

Hope you will answer each point and question I presented. I have way more to present.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Where is it stated that Gentiles should live as Jews? Seems to me that Paul was not a fan of Judaizers...

If someone wants to observe the Law that's fine...but I don't see it as a necessity...

Great question especially since Peter is asked why he lived as a Gentile thus disobeying the law including the ten commandments.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

For all readers of this thread please vote for a subforum catagory on the Sabbath here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7444270/#post54204537

Thanks
bugkiller

 

[heymikey80]

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

The Sabbath has been redesignated. It's not Saturday, alone. It's today. Every day. See Hebrews 4.

You engage in Sabbath when you rest from your own willful desires and actions and look to God for your initiative.

You need to gather with other believers, though. God is to be worshipped, public worship is a periodic reminder instituted by Him for our good. You also need encouragement and need to encourage others. Organized and initiating ministry is also helped by this gathering.

They're your family. You'll be spending a long time with them. Best to get settled among them.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Sabbath has been redesignated. It's not Saturday, alone. It's today. Every day. See Hebrews 4.

You engage in Sabbath when you rest from your own willful desires and actions and look to God for your initiative.

 

[Hismessenger]

Christ is and was always the sabbath we ere and are to keep. Look at all the things written about the sabbath and then truly ask yourself, is it really talking about a day or THE day. Jesus

hismessenger

 

[from scratch]

Christ is and was always the sabbath we ere and are to keep. Look at all the things written about the sabbath and then truly ask yourself, is it really talking about a day or THE day. Jesus

hismessenger

 

[RibI]

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

It looks like you're looking for a loophole or an excuse to stop observing God's Holy Sabbath.
God's Sabbath points to Him as the Great Creator God of the Bible. It points to His very name and none other.
To observe another day or none at all means that you also change the god that you worship.
You can not dissmiss God's Sabbath and still be worshiping Him.
By the way, why not discuss it here, after all the Sabbath was also made a special covenant by itself, that is prepetual and forever, not just [part] of another covenant.

 

[from scratch]

It looks like you're looking for a loophole or an excuse to stop observing God's Holy Sabbath.

I disagree and think she has a ligetimate question.

God's Sabbath points to Him as the Great Creator God of the Bible. It points to His very name and none other.
To observe another day or none at all means that you also change the god that you worship.

No sir it doesn't. It is a or the major difference in the covenants. You can't have them both as Gal 5:4 indicates, it is eather law or Jesus.

You can not dissmiss God's Sabbath and still be worshiping Him.
By the way, why not discuss it here, after all the Sabbath was also made a special covenant by itself, that is prepetual and forever, not just [part] of another covenant.

Again it comes down to which covenant you like. Jesus is our sabbath rest Mat 11:28-30. Not to mention Hebrews on the subject.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I disagree and think she has a ligetimate question.No sir it doesn't. It is a or the major difference in the covenants. You can't have them both as Gal 5:4 indicates, it is eatheir law or Jesus. Again it comes down to which covenant you like. Jesus is our sabbath rest Mat 11:28-30. Not to mention Hebrews on the subject.

Jesus being the sabbath rest is the lamest of excuses and it is a total twist of Hebrews. The rest that the subjects of Hebrews 4 were prevented from entering into, was it a rest in Jesus? No it was not.

The day that many say means everyday, being our "new sabbath rest", did it exist in the Old testament? It surely did.

And the whole thing about choosing between law and Jesus is bogus, because Jesus chose the law. He chose to obey his father because he loved him. I am sure however, that you have no problem with 9 of the 10 commandments. It is just the sabbath where the problem is. Study Hebrews 4 and start from chapter 3. Determine the subjects of the chapters, check the old testament context and gain a better understanding of the chapter.

 

[Johnnz]

Actually, for the ancients a god's 'rest' was their coming home - dwelling within their temple. God's rest in Genesis was about the earth being set up and running under God's authority. All was in place.

As to law, you must read the NT as the culmination of God's message to us in Christ. There are just so many verses in the NT that speak of the end of the law, including Hebrews. In Romans, where past traditions were a big issue in the early church, Paul wrote:

Rom 14:5-6 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. NIV

If mandatory Sabbath keeping was still in force Here is where Paul would have said so and ended any disagreements amongst believers there and then. But he didn't.

John
NZ