Reconciled to God while enemies !

[zoidar]

When I see that passage it brings me to:

John Chrysostom

There is no one who will save us except the One who loved us so much that while we were yet sinners, he died for us. Do you see what ground this gives for us to hope? For before this there were two difficulties in the way of our being saved. First, we were sinners, and second, our salvation required the Lord’s death, something which was quite incredible before it happened and which required enormous love for it to happen at all. But now that it has happened, the rest becomes that much easier.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[fhansen]

According to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled to God and when ?

They were reconciled while they were yet enemies; that's the only way it works for anyone because we're all sinners. And the life of Christ is now in us, meaning that in and through Him we're not only forgiven of sin but we can now overcome the sin that opposes and separates us from God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Even though I'm convinced that non imputation of sin preached in 2 Cor 5:19 was that of the Terms of the Everlasting Covenant Established before the World began and at which time Christ was confirmed as the Surety of the Covenant Heb 7:22 or Testament, yet for the opposers of this great Gospel Truth, lets say that 2 Cor 5:19 is referring to the Cross at its actual time in Human History in or around 33 ad, then it would stand for reason that the Non Imputation described here is the one and same with the imputing of sins unto Christ, in order for Him to die for them 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that being the case, for who can deny that Christ had to have had their sins imputed to Him, in order for Him to die for them ! Then at least no one Christ died for since 33 ad can be born in their sins, yes they can be born sinners, but they are born sinners that do not have the legal guilt and condemnation of breaking God's Law against them, and they are born sinners already reconciled to God by THE DEATH OF HIS SON !

Because it was His Death that satisfied God's Law and Justice for them against every transgression they will ever commit against it, God's Law. So, legally they are born Justified and Reconciled sinners In God's Sight !

 

[Brightfame52]

The word faith is not in Rom 5:10, but like I said it's implied. We are enemies of God until we have faith. We are not going to be saved without faith. Jesus death alone doesn't save us/cancel our enmity (reconcile us) to God. We need faith in His Son to be reconciled.

Like I said, if we are already reconciled, faith is unnecessary.

Correct, the word Faith isnt in Rom 5:10 so your comment is evasive of the facts stated in Rom 5:10

 

[Brightfame52]

They were reconciled while they were yet enemies; that's the only way it works for anyone because we're all sinners. And the life of Christ is now in us, meaning that in and through Him we're not only forgiven of sin but we can now overcome the sin that opposes and separates us from God.

No its not for anyone, its for the reconciled to God, for all are not reconciled to God. All are not forgiven as well !

 

[zoidar]

Correct, the word Faith isnt in Rom 5:10 so your comment is evasive of the facts stated in Rom 5:10

We need to understand Scripture, not just read Scripture. Reading Scripture can be and often is challenging.

I don't think it's evasive. Sure we are reconciled through the death of His Son (Rom 5:10), who would argue? But how? Scripture says through faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

We need to understand Scripture, not just read Scripture. Reading Scripture can be and often is challenging.

I don't think it's evasive. Sure we are reconciled through the death of His Son (Rom 5:10), who would argue? But how? Scripture says through faith.

According to Rom 5:10 how and when were they reconciled to God ?

 

[zoidar]

According to Rom 5:10 how and when were they reconciled to God ?

When? When being enemies.

How? (By what means were they reconciled?) Through/by means of the death of His Son.

Don't forget the question: How were they reconciled by the means of the death of His Son?

 

[fhansen]

No its not for anyone, its for the reconciled to God, for all are not reconciled to God. All are not forgiven as well !

Right, in fact if a believer doesn't forgive others he won't be forgiven himself (Matt 6:14-15) -regardless of his "faith". If he's not holy, and doesn't do good He won't be seeing God (Heb 12:14, Rom 2:7).

It's for those who turn to God in faith, and then act on that faith along with the hope and the love that all come to those who enter fellowship with God. That justice, that righteousness which tends to overcome and exclude sin is an intrinsic part of being and remaining in union with Him. If we don't have it, we don't even know Him. (1 John 1, 1 John 3).

 

[Brightfame52]

When? When being enemies.

How? (By what means were they reconciled?) Through/by means of the death of His Son.

Don't forget the question: How were they reconciled by the means of the death of His Son?

Correct the ones Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Death while being enemies/unbelievers, so they were legally saved and forgiven while being unbelievers.

 

[Brightfame52]

Right, in fact if a believer doesn't forgive others he won't be forgiven himself (Matt 6:14-15) -regardless of his "faith". If he's not holy, and doesn't do good He won't be seeing God (Heb 12:14, Rom 2:7).

It's for those who turn to God in faith, and then act on that faith along with the hope and the love that all come to those who enter fellowship with God. That justice, that righteousness which tends to overcome and exclude sin is an intrinsic part of being and remaining in union with Him. If we don't have it, we don't even know Him. (1 John 1, 1 John 3).

Rabbit trail ! This has nothing to do with the actions of people, solely in regard to Christs death.

 

[fhansen]

Rabbit trail ! This has nothing to do with the actions of people, solely in regard to Christs death.

Of course it does.
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

 

[BBAS 64]

Of course it does.
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

Context!

Rev 3:14 'And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness—the faithful and true—the chief of the creation of God;

 

[zoidar]

Correct the ones Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Death while being enemies/unbelievers, so they were legally saved and forgiven while being unbelievers.

You are saying unbelievers are legally saved. Interesting! What is legally saved? Saved I know, legally saved is a new concept to me.

It's a question of order of salvation...

*Edited*

 

[Brightfame52]

Of course it does.
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are saying unbelievers are legally saved. Interesting! What is legally saved? Saved I know, legally saved is a new concept to me.

It's a question of order of salvation...

The concept we see in the Bible is the unbeliever (enemy) repents and is saved/reconciled, becomes a believer, a friend of God.

Unbelievers Jesus died for are legally saved by His death, that's what being reconciled to God means. Legally saved means sins are forgiven, God will not charge them with sin, and they are legally righteous.

 

[zoidar]

Unbelievers Jesus died for are legally saved by His death, that's what being reconciled to God means. Legally saved means sins are forgiven, God will not charge them with sin, and they are legally righteous.

Ok! What does faith do? And why do we need faith to be saved when we are legally saved?

 

[fhansen]

Context!

Rev 3:14 'And to the messenger of the assembly of the Laodiceans write: These things saith the Amen, the witness—the faithful and true—the chief of the creation of God;

And?? You think that He's not speaking of a universal truth?

 

[fhansen]

How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation is available to all men. We embrace it by faith. Paul was speaking to believers.

 

[zoidar]

Unbelievers Jesus died for are legally saved by His death, that's what being reconciled to God means. Legally saved means sins are forgiven, God will not charge them with sin, and they are legally righteous.

You also need to prove Jesus death wasn't the atonement for everyone's sin in the world. Just one verse saying Jesus death wasn't for a person will do or that his death was only for these people.

I accept no false dichotomy, like Christ died for his Church, therefore he didn't die for anyone outside the Church.