Question about divorce

[healingrainbow]

There's a bad reason to divorce and there's a good reason to divorce, but it's so hard to decide what is a good reason to divorce. Like, if you want to divorce someone because he/she won't let you be yourself and abuses you and he/she thinks that you need help but it's like he/she needs help more than you. Is that a okay reason to divorce? 'Cause I know a friend who's going through this. I was abused just like that when I was in my teens and I remembered that I felt so dead inside. Just wondering.

 

[chaz345]

There are bad reasons to divorce and things that make divorce necessary but the word good and the word divorce never belong in the same sentence.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Anytime a person is in physcial danger from a spouse-at least LEAVE, if you want to wait to see if there is a possible change, that's up to the person, but there is a thing called separation, if not divorce. That's my advice to anyone in an abusive situation.

The important thing is to keep "breathing".

 

[McScribe]

There are bad reasons to divorce and things that make divorce necessary but the word good and the word divorce never belong in the same sentence.

And yet...you wonder why it doesn't seem like your first concern is for the suffering people. Your first concern always seems to be the institution of marriage because you believe that what attacks it is bad, and the preservation of it is good. This is totally secondary to the importance of the souls of the people. Making that your first concern doesn't make marriage irrelevent. The concern for the soul is about encouraging people to turn to God, which then makes it likelier to obey Him, out of love and hope.

 

[Created2Write]

And yet...you wonder why it doesn't seem like your first concern is for the suffering people. Your first concern always seems to be the institution of marriage because you believe that what attacks it is bad, and the preservation of it is good. This is totally secondary to the importance of the souls of the people. Making that your first concern doesn't make marriage irrelevent. The concern for the soul is about encouraging people to turn to God, which then makes it likelier to obey Him, out of love and hope.

McScribe, this reaction was unnecessary. Chaz doesn't have to go into excruciating detail to make sure everyone feels good about his points. He wasn't even talking about the people who divorce, he was talking about something he noticed in the OP. Something that, imo, is good to point out. There isn't a such thing as a good divorce, or even a good reason. That doesn't mean it's never necessary, just that it's never good.

If he didn't want to respond to the question, he didn't have to, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be attacked. I've seen you get very upset when posters attack or insult you because you choose to emphasize compassion. Don't turn around and attack or insult chaz simply because he chooses to be more harsh and straightforward. Both perspectives are necessary around here.

As to the OP, I agree with chaz. There is no "good" reason to divorce. There are, however, reasons that make divorce an understandable choice. The Bible lists fornication/adultery as the only reason to divorce. I, personally, believe a person can divorce because of abuse as well, but that is not listed in scripture, it is merely my own opinion.

 

[highlife]

McScribe, this reaction was unnecessary. Chaz doesn't have to go into excruciating detail to make sure everyone feels good about his points. He wasn't even talking about the people who divorce, he was talking about something he noticed in the OP. Something that, imo, is good to point out. There isn't a such thing as a good divorce, or even a good reason. That doesn't mean it's never necessary, just that it's never good.

If he didn't want to respond to the question, he didn't have to, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be attacked. I've seen you get very upset when posters attack or insult you because you choose to emphasize compassion. Don't turn around and attack or insult chaz simply because he chooses to be more harsh and straightforward. Both perspectives are necessary around here.

As to the OP, I agree with chaz. There is no "good" reason to divorce. There are, however, reasons that make divorce an understandable choice. The Bible lists fornication/adultery as the only reason to divorce. I, personally, believe a person can divorce because of abuse as well, but that is not listed in scripture, it is merely my own opinion.

This just generally breaks down relationships and causes people to avoid you.

 

[McScribe]

McScribe, this reaction was unnecessary. Chaz doesn't have to go into excruciating detail to make sure everyone feels good about his points. He wasn't even talking about the people who divorce, he was talking about something he noticed in the OP. Something that, imo, is good to point out. There isn't a such thing as a good divorce, or even a good reason. That doesn't mean it's never necessary, just that it's never good.

If he didn't want to respond to the question, he didn't have to, but that doesn't mean he deserves to be attacked. I've seen you get very upset when posters attack or insult you because you choose to emphasize compassion. Don't turn around and attack or insult chaz simply because he chooses to be more harsh and straightforward. Both perspectives are necessary around here.

As to the OP, I agree with chaz. There is no "good" reason to divorce. There are, however, reasons that make divorce an understandable choice. The Bible lists fornication/adultery as the only reason to divorce. I, personally, believe a person can divorce because of abuse as well, but that is not listed in scripture, it is merely my own opinion.

Crweated, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand the nature of a disagreement that chaz and I have. Chaz seems to believe that if a person is going down the path of divorce deliberately that appealing to their faith in God isn't going to work because they are sinning already. My view of it is that people sin because they are failing to understand God's nature or their own and need to be reminded of it. It's not just about him being harsh.

Also, I know you respect him a lot. I do too. He's a good man, and really, he and Cons and I may disagree about things, even vehemently; it doesn't mean that we don't respect one another as men.

 

[Created2Write]

Crweated, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand the nature of a disagreement that chaz and I have. Chaz seems to believe that if a person is going down the path of divorce deliberately that appealing to their faith in God isn't going to work because they are sinning already. My view of it is that people sin because they are failing to understand God's nature or their own and need to be reminded of it. It's not just about him being harsh.

Also, I know you respect him a lot. I do too. He's a good man, and really, he and Cons and I may disagree about things, even vehemently; it doesn't mean that we don't respect one another as men.

Granted, I may not understand what's going on, but I still don't think the way you worded, specifically, the first sentence of your post was necessary or right. (For the record, I would say the same thing to him if the roles were reversed.) You have a right to your beliefs, and he has a right to his. Your post came across as very rude.

 

[McScribe]

Not intended that way at all. I'd like for chaz to give his impression of it, and if he'd like me to apologize then I will. You notice that I said 'seems' and 'seem'. Which means (from my perspective) that I don't think he IS as I described. On the contrary, chaz is very concerned about salvation.

Stepping back to what the OP actually is saying, they're not really asking an ethical question entirely, they're using the example of a friend in a troubled situation. In any number of these questions what is really being asked is a cautious "is it okay to talk about this?"

And in addition I would add to the OP that Christ came to bring us life abundant, life everlasting, to set us free. He can also help set us free from the captivity of abuse, where our hearts have become dead he can breathe life and peace.

 

[dayhiker]

I'd say if this person has lost their person because of the way their spouce has treated them then its OK to seperate and call it over.

 

[highlife]

Not intended that way at all. I'd like for chaz to give his impression of it, and if he'd like me to apologize then I will. You notice that I said 'seems' and 'seem'. Which means (from my perspective) that I don't think he IS as I described. On the contrary, chaz is very concerned about salvation.

Stepping back to what the OP actually is saying, they're not really asking an ethical question entirely, they're using the example of a friend in a troubled situation. In any number of these questions what is really being asked is a cautious "is it okay to talk about this?"

And in addition I would add to the OP that Christ came to bring us life abundant, life everlasting, to set us free. He can also help set us free from the captivity of abuse, where our hearts have become dead he can breathe life and peace.

That is quite right, by not allowing yourself to be influanced by legalist pharisies and getting the divorce. Just becuase divorce is not easy does not mean things dont get better so long as you meet someone who treats you right. Better to divorce sooner than later so you are still young enough to attract a new mate. If you spend years spinning your wheels listenting to legalists you may just have a really hard time finding a new mate and in that case the divorce may in fact be worse than just staying together.

I dont understand how people dont see this, its not like im some kind of oracle with secret knowlage.

 

[chaz345]

And yet...you wonder why it doesn't seem like your first concern is for the suffering people. Your first concern always seems to be the institution of marriage because you believe that what attacks it is bad, and the preservation of it is good. This is totally secondary to the importance of the souls of the people. Making that your first concern doesn't make marriage irrelevent. The concern for the soul is about encouraging people to turn to God, which then makes it likelier to obey Him, out of love and hope.

My concern is EXACTLY for the suffering people. Divorce, except in cases of abuse, rarely reduces or eliminates suffering, it usually creates more.

And I don't quite get the part about the people's souls. Last time I checked, being in a miserable marriage didn't jeopardize one's salvation.

 

[foodiepeep]

Last time I checked, being in a miserable marriage didn't jeopardize one's salvation.

What about deciding to get out of one?...

 

[McScribe]

My concern is EXACTLY for the suffering people. Divorce, except in cases of abuse, rarely reduces or eliminates suffering, it usually creates more.

And I don't quite get the part about the people's souls. Last time I checked, being in a miserable marriage didn't jeopardize one's salvation.

Chaz, you're only seeing a small part of the picture. All you see is the divorce and the marriage. Our salvation is about more than going to Heaven, it is about how we deal with everything in life as well.

When we see how people are struggling in life and they are fellow believers I believe the first question is not whether or not they get a divorce but whether or not they truly believe in God's promises.

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On​

This is getting rather off topic!
Try to reply to the OP, please, and not discuss other members!
Thanks

Mod Hat Off​

 

[chaz345]

What about deciding to get out of one?...

Of course not. Even if it's a non-Biblical reason and therefore a sin, last time I checked sin didn't take away anyone's salvation.

 

[chaz345]

Chaz, you're only seeing a small part of the picture. All you see is the divorce and the marriage. Our salvation is about more than going to Heaven, it is about how we deal with everything in life as well.

When we see how people are struggling in life and they are fellow believers I believe the first question is not whether or not they get a divorce but whether or not they truly believe in God's promises.

Right. And isn't initiating a divorce often a sign of having given up on or never having fully believed in God's promises?

Here's the thing though. If the struggle is in ANY other area other than their marriage or divorcing, we've got not problem saying "hey that choice of action is wrong and counter to God's will". So why is it such a problem with divorce?

 

[McScribe]

Right. And isn't initiating a divorce often a sign of having given up on or never having fully believed in God's promises?

Here's the thing though. If the struggle is in ANY other area other than their marriage or divorcing, we've got not problem saying "hey that choice of action is wrong and counter to God's will". So why is it such a problem with divorce?

Actually I respond to everything sinful this way. Jesus says that we are slaves to sin if we sin. If someone is stealing I would say "Don't you know that God is our provider?" If I myself struggle with anger I remind myself of who I am in Christ and who God is.

So I would say to someone who is concerned about their friend who is in an emotionally abusive marriage as far as they can tell that the chief concern is the state of that person's soul. Someone who believes in the goodness and mercy of God, in the power of God, and believes that they have been given that same by God's love, can overcome fear and shame, and needs help and example in doing that. I believe that whether it is sickness, divorce or whatever that we need to overcome by faith first and foremost.

 

[chaz345]

Actually I respond to everything sinful this way. Jesus says that we are slaves to sin if we sin. If someone is stealing I would say "Don't you know that God is our provider?" If I myself struggle with anger I remind myself of who I am in Christ and who God is.

So I would say to someone who is concerned about their friend who is in an emotionally abusive marriage as far as they can tell that the chief concern is the state of that person's soul. Someone who believes in the goodness and mercy of God, in the power of God, and believes that they have been given that same by God's love, can overcome fear and shame, and needs help and example in doing that. I believe that whether it is sickness, divorce or whatever that we need to overcome by faith first and foremost.

So,as we've come to before on several occasions, we don't really disagree, we just emphasize a slightly different aspect of the overall issue. I would have appreciated though leaving the implication that I don't care about the people or their souls out of it.

 

[McScribe]

So,as we've come to before on several occasions, we don't really disagree, we just emphasize a slightly different aspect of the overall issue. I would have appreciated though leaving the implication that I don't care about the people or their souls out of it.

I apologize if that is the strongest impression, though I was trying to say that it SOUNDS like you don't care, not that you don't. So then why not add something in response to the OP that might be encouraging?

Just a thought--you do this extremely well when talking about addictions. I could not stress enough how compassionate, intelligent and helpful you are when I've seen you posting about sexual addictions or issues within marriage. You always in those posts focus on how God can heal and help us, offer broad minded looks at what can be helpful generally and encourage those who are struggling, whether wives or husbands, to feel encouraged. I can think of few other posters who do this as well as you do. You readily when it comes to that issue see past the smoke and dust to what the real problems are.