Pro-Palestinian protest blocks Golden Gate Bridge

[AlexB23]

It's very dangerous. People don't realize how closed the Black Lives Matter protest on the Interstate came to causing the deaths of many. But if it's a left wing cause they usually get off with little or no penalties. This is a great opportunity to identify non-citizens who took part and deport them.

Whether the cause is left or right wing, protests should be held in areas where vehicles do not travel, such as in a courtyard, park, beach or structure. Blocking traffic should be charged, or at least fined half-a-day's wages for each individual, as if the protest lasted a few hours, that would mean half of a commuter's day has been wasted. So, a half-a-day's wage fine would be fair in my opinion. For instance, if a protester makes $200 in a day, then he must pay a $100 fine. If he only makes $80 in a day, then he must pay a $40 fine for blocking the road.

This type of fining system is known as income-based fines. Pretty neat, isn't it: The Constitutionality of Income-Based Fines | The University of Chicago Law Review

 

[Valletta]

Whether the cause is left or right wing, protests should be held in areas where vehicles do not travel, such as in a courtyard, park, beach or structure. Blocking traffic should be charged, or at least fined half-a-day's wages for each individual, as if the protest lasted a few hours, that would mean half of a commuter's day has been wasted. So, a half-a-day's wage fine would be fair in my opinion. For instance, if a protester makes $200 in a day, then he must pay a $100 fine. If he only makes $80 in a day, then he must pay a $40 fine for blocking the road.

This type of fining system is known as income-based fines. Pretty neat, isn't it: The Constitutionality of Income-Based Fines | The University of Chicago Law Review

I am quite pleased to hear you consider such things. Know that before wokeness and the villify the police movement took over, through decades of police and court work and experience, such consequences had been developed. To me it was crazy to hype a few incidents and demand police departments be defunded and psychologists sent out. All of that experience thrown out as if no one had ever given the issues a bit of thought. We can see the results. The income based idea is open for discussion, but then groups could hire homeless and unemployed students to protest. The most important thing missing is MANDATORY consequences, fines if you will, for ALL parties, no matter what their politics. And that is not happening. It would mean that a right wing protesters at the Capitol who trespassed would receive the exact same consequences as a pro-Palestinian protester. A Black Lives Matter protester blocking the freeway would receive the same consequences as a pro-lifer who blocked the freeway. And sadly I think so many Americans today would say "We can't have that."

 

[AlexB23]

I am quite pleased to hear you consider such things. Know that before wokeness and the villify the police movement took over, through decades of police and court work and experience, such consequences had been developed. To me it was crazy to hype a few incidents and demand police departments be defunded and psychologists sent out. All of that experience thrown out as if no one had ever given the issues a bit of thought. We can see the results. The income based idea is open for discussion, but then groups could hire homeless and unemployed students to protest. The most important thing missing is MANDATORY consequences, fines if you will, for ALL parties, no matter what their politics. And that is not happening. It would mean that a right wing protesters at the Capitol who trespassed would receive the exact same consequences as a pro-Palestinian protester. A Black Lives Matter protester blocking the freeway would receive the same consequences as a pro-lifer who blocked the freeway. And sadly I think so many Americans today would say "We can't have that."

I think America is too broken to be repaired sadly. We might have to wait until Christ returns. Both parties are at fault here.

 

[durangodawood]

I think America is too broken to be repaired sadly. We might have to wait until Christ returns. Both parties are at fault here.

Why the parties and not the voters?

 

[AlexB23]

Why the parties and not the voters?

Yeah, I take that back. The parties and the voters.

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah, I take that back. The parties and the voters.

I see voters who signed up for a ride with flat out media liars starting around the 90s.

But its hard to say exactly whats peoples fault, as a matter of character weakness in terms of voluntary ignorance, and how much people are just victims of larger forces.

 

[AlexB23]

I see voters who signed up for a ride with flat out media liars starting around the 90s.

But its hard to say exactly whats peoples fault, as a matter of character weakness in terms of voluntary ignorance, and how much people are just victims of larger forces.

Yeah, that is when cable media became popular, and it became about getting the most money out of the viewers (opinion piece on FastCompany).

 

[Valletta]

I see voters who signed up for a ride with flat out media liars starting around the 90s.

But its hard to say exactly whats peoples fault, as a matter of character weakness in terms of voluntary ignorance, and how much people are just victims of larger forces.

Not sure what you mean by the 1990s in particular. People don't realize how much corruption there is in the establishment. And what they do see often doesn't seem to make a difference.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I wish there was some sort of data about whether this style of protest works. But I doubt thats possible to sort out.

I suppose the gambit is the even if the public hates you, there's still some value in getting just the name of your issue out there in the media.

If past similar protests on other topics are any indicator, not all that well.

I've yet to see any meaningful climate regulations come out of people throwing soup on paintings and blocking roads for that, and we didn't see any meaningful banking regulations coming out of the Occupy protests when they were blocking roads and areas of cities for that.


To your latter part, I can see that being valid for "under the radar issues" that most people have never heard of.

But what we see most of these types of protests for now are issues that are amply covered at a national level, and not only covered, but issues for which the overwhelming majority has already picked their side, and there's nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Sort of like with the "Just Stop Oil" protestors...everyone was already aware of the climate change debate, everyone's pretty much picked which side they're on (so they aren't picking up any converts with their antics), and defacing art in an art museum (which is already a more left leaning crowd who were likely already on their side) does nothing but risking actually losing support.

This particular event in question sort of has the same vibe. A progressive protest, inconveniencing and annoying a bunch of people in San Francisco
(a city that's overwhelmingly Blue)

...means that they're agitating a bunch of people who were likely already on their side in the first place, so they likely aren't making any new friends, just enemies.



As a more generalized stance on these types of protests, I think the line gets drawn at the place where you're preventing people from being able to use the publicly funded services/infrastructure for the purpose for which it was intended, and which they paid taxes for. If I lived there, I'd be quite upset. Given their high rates of taxation in Cali, if I'm paying taxes for the roads/bridges, I get to use them for transportation and emergency services...period. Anyone intentionally prohibiting that is infringing on the rights of others. People shouldn't have to lose out on wages and potentially have emergency services disrupted just because some 20-something wants to post a cool "#SmashColonialism" story to post on their Instagram feed later...


The types of disorganized, disconnected leaderless movement rarely create any meaningful change, and quickly devolve into bunch of different people who want to signal their radicalness to everyone else "for the likes".

 

[durangodawood]

If past similar protests on other topics are any indicator, not all that well.

I've yet to see any meaningful climate regulations come out of people throwing soup on paintings and blocking roads for that, and we didn't see any meaningful banking regulations coming out of the Occupy protests when they were blocking roads and areas of cities for that.


To your latter part, I can see that being valid for "under the radar issues" that most people have never heard of.

But what we see most of these types of protests for now are issues that are amply covered at a national level, and not only covered, but issues for which the overwhelming majority has already picked their side, and there's nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Sort of like with the "Just Stop Oil" protestors...everyone was already aware of the climate change debate, everyone's pretty much picked which side they're on (so they aren't picking up any converts with their antics), and defacing art in an art museum (which is already a more left leaning crowd who were likely already on their side) does nothing but risking actually losing support.

This particular event in question sort of has the same vibe. A progressive protest, inconveniencing and annoying a bunch of people in San Francisco
(a city that's overwhelmingly Blue)
View attachment 346043

...means that they're agitating a bunch of people who were likely already on their side in the first place, so they likely aren't making any new friends, just enemies.



As a more generalized stance on these types of protests, I think the line gets drawn at the place where you're preventing people from being able to use the publicly funded services/infrastructure for the purpose for which it was intended, and which they paid taxes for. If I lived there, I'd be quite upset. Given their high rates of taxation in Cali, if I'm paying taxes for the roads/bridges, I get to use them for transportation and emergency services...period. Anyone intentionally prohibiting that is infringing on the rights of others. People shouldn't have to lose out on wages and potentially have emergency services disrupted just because some 20-something wants to post a cool "#SmashColonialism" story to post on their Instagram feed later...


The types of disorganized, disconnected leaderless movement rarely create any meaningful change, and quickly devolve into bunch of different people who want to signal their radicalness to everyone else "for the likes".

Its the annoying style I'm thinking of in particular. I doubt it does any good.

Protest generally can fare better. I think back to the anti apartheid / divestment protest of the 80's. As I recall they played a significant role in pressuring many portfolio managers and corp execs to consider backing out of South Africa, and the white minority govt there could see the writing on the wall.

And absent visible civil rights protest in the US racist systems of law could have stayed on the books decades longer in certain states, I think.

Soup on plexiglass painting covers. Not so much.

 

[eleos1954]

Pro-Palestinian protesters block Golden Gate bridge, roads across US

Pro-Palestinian demonstrators blocked San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge on Monday, completely halting traffic for hours as part of a coordinated day of action against Israel's war in Gaza.

www.france24.com

I think any non-citizen participating in these protests should be immediately deported.[/url]

Legality. Most jurisdictions consider the obstruction of traffic an illegal activity and have developed rules to prosecute those who block, obstruct, impede, or otherwise interfere with the normal flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic upon a public street or highway.

All should be processed according to the laws in place regarding impeding traffic ... regardless of their citizenship standing.

There are procedures for deportation and those should be followed as well but for the most part are not being followed in a timely manner.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

San Francisco is too woke to put people in jail.

I know. I know so many who have fled California because of the crime and filth now.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I think America is too broken to be repaired sadly. We might have to wait until Christ returns. Both parties are at fault here.

I hope you are not right. I want to think we have a little hope left for this nation.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Its the annoying style I'm thinking of in particular. I doubt it does any good.

Protest generally can fare better. I think back to the anti apartheid / divestment protest of the 80's. As I recall they played a significant role in pressuring many portfolio managers and corp execs to consider backing out of South Africa, and the white minority govt there could see the writing on the wall.

And absent visible civil rights protest in the US racist systems of law could have stayed on the books decades longer in certain states, I think.

Soup on plexiglass painting covers. Not so much.

Legal protest is fine. Do that in appropriate locations. Blocking roads...hard NO. Long prison sentence for taking hostages on roads,as this bunch did by deliberately driving to the center of the bridge and then blocking it. There was no attempt to let that vulnerable group -or those in danger, such as in ambulances - go another way. This is pure evil.

 

[Desk trauma]

Legal protest is fine. Do that in appropriate locations. Blocking roads...hard NO. Long prison sentence for taking hostages on roads,as this bunch did by deliberately driving to the center of the bridge and then blocking it. There was no attempt to let that vulnerable group -or those in danger, such as in ambulances - go another way. This is pure evil.

The bar for evil is quite low these days.

 

[Ceallaigh]

The bar for evil is quite low these days.

I'd say blocking an ambulance is pretty high up on a scale of evil.

 

[Desk trauma]

I'd say blocking an ambulance is pretty high up on a scale of evil.

They caused a traffic jam, in California.

 

[AlexB23]

I hope you are not right. I want to think we have a little hope left for this nation.

We have some hope, but the eschatologists do not think so.

 

[Ceallaigh]

They caused a traffic jam, in California.

They set up roadblocks that might have prevented rescue vehicles from saving lives.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

They set up roadblocks that might have prevented rescue vehicles from saving lives.

You guys are so funny with this alarmist "ThEy'Re BlOcKiNg AmBuLaNcEs!!!11 PeOpLe ArE dYiNg!!!!11" call out. How many people have died in the back of ambulances as a result of one of these protests? Got any numbers? It's often used as justification for violence against the protestors up to and including murdering them with vehicles and even firearms.

I've seen some of these protests in the past where the protesters actually make a hole for emergency vehicles to get through. And what happens when an accident due to negligence happens and backs traffic up on the bridge? Are the victims of the accident "pure evil" for blocking ambulances then? Was it "pure evil" when protestors shut down the Hudson River bridge in New York for an anti-human trafficking protest? Didn't see any of you guys complaining about that one. Or is it just when it's a protest whose position you don't agree with?

Sorry you guys were inconvenienced. By all means keep discussing it though. That's what these protests are all about. It's their very purpose.