Omnipresence...

[The Righterzpen]

I need some input; if anyone has some resources, ideas or explanations?

The subject is omnipresence. We know God is an eternal self existent Entity; thus the creation is totally separate from God, although He operates within it. I was talking to a person on a Facebook thread a friend of mine posted and she was probably more "eastern philosophy" / "yin & yang" type of ideology. And for the life in her; she could not figure on how God could create this cosmos and not be part of it. She believes "God is everything and everything is God" (or something like that) type of belief system.

But when I tried to explain that omnipresence doesn't mean God is literally a part of everything in creation; and that she could (or rather would) not see how God is separate from creation. I stated we know He's separate because obviously creation has a beginning and God doesn't. God is also able to create something out of nothing. And how God manages to be omnipresent, yet separate from His creation; I don't know because I'm not omniscient.

So, knowing God is not His creation; does anyone have any good ways of explaining omnipresence?

Thanks!

 

[trophy33]

I do not think its possible for the creation to be "totally separate" from God.

The creation is in God, like your thoughts are in your head. Its not something "standing next to Him".

Therefore, to explain His omnipresence, omniscience etc. is quite easy.

"In Him we live, move and exist"
Acts 17:28

 

[The Righterzpen]

I do not think its possible for the creation to be "totally separate" from God.

The creation is in God, like your thoughts are in your head. Its not something "standing next to Him".

Therefore, to explain His omnipresence, omniscience etc. is quite easy.

"In Him we live, move and exist"
Acts 17:28

God is not creation though, neither is creation God. That's pantheism. Christianity is not a pantheistic belief system.

Found this article:
Doesn't explain necessarily how omnipresence is operative in this world; but it does clearly uphold the reality that God and the creation are not one in the same.

Is God distinct from creation?

God is separate and distinct from creation. He is the creator. This is an absolutely foundational issue in the Christian faith.

carm.org

 

[trophy33]

God is not creation though, neither is creation God. That's pantheism. Christianity is not a pantheistic belief system.

Found this article:
Doesn't explain necessarily now omnipresence is operative in this world; but it does clearly uphold the reality that God and the creation are not one in the same.

Is God distinct from creation?

God is separate and distinct from creation. He is the creator. This is an absolutely foundational issue in the Christian faith.

carm.org

Are your dreams you or are you your dreams? Similarly with thoughts.

The fact that something exists in you does not mean its you.

Whatever carm website says, the Bible says we move and exist in Him. And it really solves your problem with omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence etc in a very simple and easy way.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Are your dreams you or are you your dreams? Similarly with thoughts.

The fact that something exists in you does not mean its you.

Whatever carm website says, the Bible says we move and exist in Him. And it really solves your problem with omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence etc in a very simple and easy way.

Did you even read the article?

My dreams are not me; nor am I my dreams. I don't move and exist in my dreams and nor do they move and exist in me.

I think you have a faulty understanding of what it means to "move and exist" in God as it's related to Acts 17:28. He is addressing all who become believers. Post Pentecost believers "move and exist" in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit; but that doesn't mean the entire creation does. Satan certainly doesn't "move and exist" in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Besides this though the word "in" denotes an origin point of something; not something that is something else. Which is consistent if talking of someone being materially created or spiritually reborn. God is the origin point of what makes living things animate; (He sends the breath of life) but also He is the origin point of spiritual life. Which entails a permanent joining to the believer.

Which maybe this is the distinction; seeing how being "born again" (or "born anew") is a totally different set of parameters than simply being created.

 

[trophy33]

Did you even read the article?

No, I am not interested.

My dreams are not me; nor am I my dreams. I don't move and exist in my dreams and nor do they move and exist in me.

They do not move physically. But thats not the point, because they are immaterial. They do exist in you, though.

 

[trophy33]

I think you have a faulty understanding of what it means to "move and exist" in God as it's related to Acts 17:28. He is addressing all who become believers. Post Pentecost believers "move and exist" in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit;

Thats not the context at all.

The context is Paul preaching to Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in Athens in the Areopagus.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I need some input; if anyone has some resources, ideas or explanations?

The subject is omnipresence. We know God is an eternal self existent Entity; thus the creation is totally separate from God, although He operates within it. I was talking to a person on a Facebook thread a friend of mine posted and she was probably more "eastern philosophy" / "yin & yang" type of ideology. And for the life in her; she could not figure on how God could create this cosmos and not be part of it. She believes "God is everything and everything is God" (or something like that) type of belief system.

But when I tried to explain that omnipresence doesn't mean God is literally a part of everything in creation; and that she could (or rather would) not see how God is separate from creation. I stated we know He's separate because obviously creation has a beginning and God doesn't. God is also able to create something out of nothing. And how God manages to be omnipresent, yet separate from His creation; I don't know because I'm not omniscient.

So, knowing God is not His creation; does anyone have any good ways of explaining omnipresence?

Thanks!

There is the teaching of pantheism which basically says that creation is God and God is creation. Christianity believes that God and creation are separate. Many believers have lapsed into pantheism because of a hyper "God is in control of everything" doctrine. They hold to an idea that God is in control of creation to such an extreme extent that for all intents and purposes creation is merely an extension of His being. Everything that is and that happens is merely the real-time manifestation of what is going on in His mind. Time and creation is nothing more than a manifestation of God's stream of consciousness.
Remember that what you are talking about is the "omni" doctrines which are inventions of theologians. These things are not found as such in the scriptures. Not that there is not some truth in these "general attributes of God;" there surely is. But these are not the concepts by which God wants us to see Him. When people make up words they, intentionally or not, are creating logical frameworks and contexts like boxes. They try to stuff God into these boxes and our understanding of God into these frameworks.
My point is that God sent Jesus to show us God. He is the exact image of the Father and that is how He wants us to see and understand Him.
Remember also that there are things that belong to God, and He reserves this knowledge to Himself. Straying into these area and attempting to apply them to our theology may be harmful to us. We will likely get it wrong. The most grievous example of this is where the very words of Jesus are often overruled by our concepts of the general attributes of God. People will take a direct statement made by Jesus and qualify it. and force it to conform to the general attributes of God. They will subject Jesus to the "Omnis" of theology. There is much more to this topic. But the post is too long.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Thats not the context at all.

The context is Paul preaching to Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in Athens in the Areopagus.

Well, your input has not been very helpful but thank you anyways.

 

[trophy33]

Well, your input has not been very helpful but thank you anyways.

No problem. Maybe it will be helpful for readers.

 

[The Righterzpen]

There is the teaching of pantheism which basically says that creation is God and God is creation. Christianity believes that God and creation are separate. Many believers have lapsed into pantheism because of a hyper "God is in control of everything" doctrine. They hold to an idea that God is in control of creation to such an extreme extent that for all intents and purposes creation is merely an extension of His being. Everything that is and that happens is merely the real-time manifestation of what is going on in His mind. Time and creation is nothing more than a manifestation of God's stream of consciousness.
Remember that what you are talking about is the "omni" doctrines which are inventions of theologians. These things are not found as such in the scriptures. Not that there is not some truth in these "general attributes of God;" there surely is. But these are not the concepts by which God wants us to see Him. When people make up words they, intentionally or not, are creating logical frameworks and contexts like boxes. They try to stuff God into these boxes and our understanding of God into these frameworks.
My point is that God sent Jesus to show us God. He is the exact image of the Father and that is how He wants us to see and understand Him.
Remember also that there are things that belong to God, and He reserves this knowledge to Himself. Straying into these area and attempting to apply them to our theology may be harmful to us. We will likely get it wrong. The most grievous example of this is where the very words of Jesus are often overruled by our concepts of the general attributes of God. People will take a direct statement made by Jesus and qualify it. and force it to conform to the general attributes of God. They will subject Jesus to the "Omnis" of theology. There is much more to this topic. But the post is too long.

Interesting point about Christians falling into pantheism. Being in control of everything doesn't require God to be "in" everything.

And yes, we obviously aren't going to understand everything either.