: Native American Jews: What do Messianics Think of Torah in the New World?

[ContraMundum]

ON this topic....

.. "I know nothing–NOTHING".

*


* Little known fact: John Banner (the pictured actor) was Jewish!

 

[rsduncan]

ON this topic....

.. "I know nothing–NOTHING".

*


* Little known fact: John Banner (the pictured actor) was Jewish!

The first episode of Hogan's Heroes was a re-telling of "Stalag 17" and it was quite serious a story for a wartime comedy series.

I love the episode where Sergeant Schultz took over command of Stalag 13. As Kommandant, Schultz created all kinds of trouble for Colonel Hogan's espionage unit and came close to discovering and shutting them down!!!

 

[Steve Petersen]

Has anyone mentioned the Maranos who came with the Spanish and may have settled in South and Central America as well as SW United States. I understand that there are some folks in those areas the retain vestigal elements of Judaism from that period.

 

[A_Pioneer]

Has anyone mentioned the Maranos who came with the Spanish and may have settled in South and Central America as well as SW United States. I understand that there are some folks in those areas the retain vestigal elements of Judaism from that period.

A book called "Blood Covenant" is about one such person who had no idea why they did what they did!

 

[aniello]

Has anyone mentioned the Maranos who came with the Spanish and may have settled in South and Central America as well as SW United States. I understand that there are some folks in those areas the retain vestigal elements of Judaism from that period.

Well, I live amongst a gob of the marranos/crypto jews/anusim/conversos and I have lived, in the past, rather close to the hieroglyphic stone near Los Lunas. There is a chap I know, a PhD. of some sort in theology subject, that is close to Dr. Steve Collins, that has a ministry that outreaches to the above referenced group of folks, as well as whosoever will. The "marranos(et.al.) are basically S'phardim and in Northern New Mexico and Southern Colorado there are groups that continued to practice Judaism, secretly, undercover so to speak, as there was an inquisition in these areas up to the fairly recent past. Some of these folks still speak something akin to the Castillian and/or Andalucian dialect of Espanol, and Ladino a mix of Hebrew and Spanish, sort of like Yiddish, a mix of Hebrew and German, according to my wife on the latter.

Years ago I went with my friends and visited an old grave yard dating back at least to mid to late 1600s in very Northern NM, in the mountains, a very old town, still going, and on more than one grave stone was the Magen Dabid and an inscription, or two, in Hebrrew. There are several other locations as well. Ah, one of my friends surname is Benavidez, after ben Dabid. Muy interesante, que no? Very interesting, no?

For whatever it may, or may not be, worth, we attended High Holy Days and recently Pesach with a group in Northern NM that are the descendents of the above mentioned(many of them) and the services were Sephardic Orthodox, conducted by a S'phardic Rabbi, two actually, one a young MD from NM and the other courtesy of Shearit Yisreal(New York, NY). We're trying to foster a Shul, this one, on a regular basis. Difficult.

I will get the Professor/Pastor's www. address and post it later, don't have access to it right now. Still at work at court house and have to run.

 

[aniello]

Well, here is the web address for Dr. Denis Otero's ministry:
TorahUnleashed

His e-mail is: olivetreemc@netzero.net

I hope I get it right. I'm computer challenged.

A history professor at UNM who is Jewish(belongs to our old Conservative Shul) is Dr. Stanley Hordes. He has written quite a thorough book on Crypto-Judaism as it has been in the Southwest. We've known him for quite a while.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Od3yR8OIw&sig2=L9n_cEG0o0FsWUTYbIe7IQ&cad=rja

Would think you would find both sources thorough, extensive and well documented. Hope this helps.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Well, I live amongst a gob of the marranos/crypto jews/anusim/conversos and I have lived, in the past, rather close to the hieroglyphic stone near Los Lunas. There is a chap I know, a PhD. of some sort in theology subject, that is close to Dr. Steve Collins, that has a ministry that outreaches to the above referenced group of folks, as well as whosoever will. The "marranos(et.al.) are basically S'phardim and in Northern New Mexico and Southern Colorado there are groups that continued to practice Judaism, secretly, undercover so to speak, as there was an inquisition in these areas up to the fairly recent past. Some of these folks still speak something akin to the Castillian and/or Andalucian dialect of Espanol, and Ladino a mix of Hebrew and Spanish, sort of like Yiddish, a mix of Hebrew and German, according to my wife on the latter.

Cool to see what you've shared. The language dynamics and dialects are amazing to consider.....

Years ago I went with my friends and visited an old grave yard dating back at least to mid to late 1600s in very Northern NM, in the mountains, a very old town, still going, and on more than one grave stone was the Magen Dabid and an inscription, or two, in Hebrrew. There are several other locations as well. Ah, one of my friends surname is Benavidez, after ben Dabid. Muy interesante, que no? Very interesting, no?

Interesting. Will have to look that up, as it concerns the grave stones you're discussing...

For whatever it may, or may not be, worth, we attended High Holy Days and recently Pesach with a group in Northern NM that are the descendents of the above mentioned(many of them) and the services were Sephardic Orthodox, conducted by a S'phardic Rabbi, two actually, one a young MD from NM and the other courtesy of Shearit Yisreal(New York, NY). We're trying to foster a Shul, this one, on a regular basis. Difficult.

Amazing...

Well, here is the web address for Dr. Denis Otero's ministry:
TorahUnleashed

His e-mail is: olivetreemc@netzero.net

I hope I get it right. I'm computer challenged.

Many thanks for the info you shared...

A history professor at UNM who is Jewish (belongs to our old Conservative Shul) is Dr. Stanley Hordes. He has written quite a thorough book on Crypto-Judaism as it has been in the Southwest. We've known him for quite a while.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Od3yR8OIw&sig2=L9n_cEG0o0FsWUTYbIe7IQ&cad=rja

Excellent study, as I really enjoyed learning of it

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Has anyone mentioned the Maranos who came with the Spanish and may have settled in South and Central America as well as SW United States. I understand that there are some folks in those areas the retain vestigal elements of Judaism from that period.

Is there a specific source where you found/based your statememt? Not doubting you in the slightest---as I'm highly interested and would love to investigate. For this is my first time becoming aware of the group you mentioned (Maranos).....

There was a specific book I was able to come across that has been very intriguing/a good study--as seen in the book "To the end of the earth: a history of the crypto-Jews of New Mexico". Surprising to see how other New Mexican Hispanics have recently begun to explore their families' customs and are only beginning to examine their possible blended lineage....


There are many symbols--gravesites, artifacts, and icons--that might point toward the presence of the descendants of crypto-Jews who came to the New World. There has recently been a renewed interest in crypto-Jews, as DNA tests have revealed the Jewish heritage of a number of Hispanic New Mexicans.

The ways that Jews and other cultures mix together is always amazing to behold---like taking a plant and placing it in the soil of whatever land it's in and seeing it grow naturally in harmony with the environment rather than coming at things with a POTTED Plant/putting that on the ground. Another sister in the Lord noted something similar occurring that happened with Hispanic Jews adapting---as seen here in discussion on Indian Jews.

As she said there:

Another branch of the Messianic Jewish faith flourished in South-West India for about 1400 years, in the Malayali-speaking state of Kerala.

Jews and Hindus already living in the area were evangelized by St. Thomas, and their customs, worship, and identity was uniquely Judeo-Christian.

NSC NETWORK – Lifestyle of Kerala Syrian Christians

NSC NETWORK – Some of the traditions and rituals among the Syrian Christians of Kerala

These Christians called themselves "Nasrani" or roughly "Nazarenes", worshipped in Aramaic, celebrated the Eastern Syriac liturgy on Saturday, kept kosher, and had Jewish names like Yakob, Simon, Thoma, Yohanan, etc.

Later contact with Portuguese missionaries greatly disrupted their traditions and practices, as many were converted into the Catholic Church, while others sought help from and joined the Syriac Orthodox Church.

Today, the St. Thomas Christians are Assyrian Chruch of the East, Oriental Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A book called "Blood Covenant" is about one such person who had no idea why they did what they did!

Which "Blood Covenant" are you talking about? For there are many books with the same title...

 

[Steve Petersen]

Is there a specific source where you found/based your statememt? Not doubting you in the slightest---as I'm highly interested and would love to investigate. For this is my first time becoming aware of the group you mentioned (Maranos).....

There was a specific book I was able to come across that has been very intriguing/a good study--as seen in the book "To the end of the earth: a history of the crypto-Jews of New Mexico". Surprising to see how other New Mexican Hispanics have recently begun to explore their families' customs and are only beginning to examine their possible blended lineage....


There are many symbols--gravesites, artifacts, and icons--that might point toward the presence of the descendants of crypto-Jews who came to the New World. There has recently been a renewed interest in crypto-Jews, as DNA tests have revealed the Jewish heritage of a number of Hispanic New Mexicans.

It was something I heard about years ago. Don't recall the source and never investigated further.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It was something I heard about years ago. Don't recall the source and never investigated further.

Got ya. Hate it when that happens.

On a side note, there's a book I thought you'd be interested in---entitled A History of the Jews in New Mexico

Very good info...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The first episode of Hogan's Heroes was a re-telling of "Stalag 17" and it was quite serious a story for a wartime comedy series.

I love the episode where Sergeant Schultz took over command of Stalag 13. As Kommandant, Schultz created all kinds of trouble for Colonel Hogan's espionage unit and came close to discovering and shutting them down!!!

Sad to see what happened to the actor who played the starring role in that film series, as he ended up in sexual immorality/was murdered. Never liked the show after finding that out...and prior to it, couldn't really get into it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

ON this topic....

.. "I know nothing–NOTHING".

*


* Little known fact: John Banner (the pictured actor) was Jewish!

Don't got to know alot on a subject to research it...or find out what has gone on in the world of those who do deal with it. Your thoughts are always a blessing. Found something on the issue that may intrigue you, concerning the journey of one Jewish individual amongst Native American groups and how the individual saw life through their eyes:

• A Jew in Navajo Country: A Journey of Faith By Debra Goldberg

Had no idea, by the way, that John Banner was Jewish. Wow

 

[ContraMundum]

Had no idea, by the way, that John Banner was Jewish. Wow

Apparently half the cast was!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Apparently half the cast was!

Dang. Amazing what they don't tell you on T.V when you may be watching the show. For I've never heard it say often that half the cast of that show was Jewish (even though I know there are many Jewish actors who were in film). I know that at times, information on backgrounds was to be kept on the "hush" levels since being Jewish wasn't popular at the times. Similar things seemed to occur even within the world of comics, as the creators of X-Men were Jewish and yet not many knew of how they had changed their last names to be marketable to the public. For a good article on this, one can go investigate the article entitled Black Politics, X-Men, White Minds 05/08/2003