Name a single religion that treats Mary with more disrespect than Christianity?

[mike1reynolds]

Not all of Christianity of course, not even the majority, but never the less, I have never seen more contempt directed at Jesus' mother from anyone of another religion. It is Christians who have the most derrogatory things to say about Jesus' mother. You would think that she was just something the cat drug in, just anyone off the street, the way I see her described around here.

No WONDER it took me so long to see that value of Christianity. So many Christians are at war with their own founders!

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I've never seen so much 'worship' of her. You are supposed to worship and focus on JESUS, not the vessel He used. That is worship, which is idolatry if it's not directed toward God Himself. Having a healthy respect is fine...and I see hardly any Christians talk of her w/ hate or disrespect...but to put so much thougths and etc...on her and not God...is just plain out not what God intended. So perhaps you should be more concerned w/ what folks think of God rather than some human that's not even alive.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Mike... you do know that Mary was a sinner just like you and I. The only reason why you believe that christians have treated her like garbage is because other christians tend to treat her like a deity, and quite frankly, the latter is much worse than the former.

To the glory of GOD,

Randy

 

[mike1reynolds]

I disagree, SP, insulting Jesus by insulting His mother is every bit as unhealthy. If anything it is more of a sin.

While I'm quite certain that there are uneducated orthodox who unwittingly worship rather than venerate, that is very much contrary to RCC doctrine.

So perhaps you should be more concerned w/ what folks think of God rather than some human that's not even alive.

Jesus is God, and insulting God's mother isn't exactly the way to have a good relationship with God.

What kind of 'worship' are you referring to? That is simply a false accusation, an insult, not an objective statement. Name a single example of worship going on here? How do you define the distinction between veneration and worship? Or do you even have any concept of such a distinction?

 

[revduane]

Not all of Christianity of course, not even the majority, but never the less, I have never seen more contempt directed at Jesus' mother from anyone of another religion. It is Christians who have the most derrogatory things to say about Jesus' mother. You would think that she was just something the cat drug in, just anyone off the street, the way I see her described around here.

No WONDER it took me so long to see that value of Christianity. So many Christians are at war with their own founders!

You cannot know about what I mean about Mary, if you don't look and see how I am coming against her being worshipped. I have not come against Mary. I happen to like the Biblical version of her. What I come against is the practice of praying to her, kneeling before her shrines, worshipping her, and putting her in the same category as Jesus as far as sinlessness goes.

Then there are the ones like myself that was taught to worship her. I have known dozens that do. Anyway when something comes up about a questionable practice in the CC, and it is easy to see that it is a very anti biblical teaching, then the person that brings it up wasn't taught proper catechism.

There is always an excuse. Always some lame answer that ends up trying to make the CC a victim of us heathen non catholics.

I can tell you or a catholic, that it is not a will of God to make graven images, or kneel before them, whether you are worsipping them or not. And then we are accused of taking that commandment out of context.

Anything brought to light that is unscriptural about the RCC is always some grand lie made up, or Jack Chick. Or Luther, or Bad Word interpretation, or the person was taught wrong. Lets see how many more rain drops this church can run through without getting wet.

 

[mike1reynolds]

He honored her, He loved her, He obeyed her [4th commandment] and He protects her.

Good point! The antiMary people seem to think that the 4th commandment doesn't apply to Jesus, or that Jesus would choose for the 4th commandment not to apply to Him.

 

[revduane]

I disagree, SP, insulting Jesus by insulting His mother is every bit as unhealthy. If anything it is more of a sin.

While I'm quite certain that there are uneducated orthodox who unwittingly worship rather than venerate, that is very much contrary to RCC doctrine.

Jesus is God, and insulting God's mother isn't exactly the way to have a good relationship with God.

What kind of 'worship' are you referring to? That is simply a false accusation, an insult, not an objective statement. Name a single example of worship going on here? How do you define the distinction between veneration and worship? Or do you even have any concept of such a distinction?

Then you haven't spent alot of time around RC's.

 

[mike1reynolds]

No, Rev, you deny that Jesus follows the 4th commandment and honors His mother.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Well, get this clear, I do not worship her, and yet you are arguing against me. Clearly there is a problem with your logic.

 

[Tonks]

I've never seen so much 'worship' of her. You are supposed to worship and focus on JESUS, not the vessel He used.

More than just a "vessel." Mary gave Christ His humanity which was just as necessary as His diety in order for His death to have any effect.

To deny this is to deny Christianity itself and to place yourself outside the bounds of salvation.

 

[revduane]

Well, get this clear, I do not worship her, and yet you are arguing against me. Clearly there is a problem with your logic.

You are living for the feud Mike. You defend it to the bone. I have never said Jesus didn't honor his mother. He did call her woman a few times. He never said she was the Queen of heaven. No one in the Word did. She cannot answer prayers. She cannot protect anyone. That is why there are ministering Spirits, (Angel) that protect us. These angels have to obey the Word of God.

 

[revduane]

More than just a "vessel." Mary gave Christ His humanity which was just as necessary as His diety in order for His death to have any effect.

To deny this is to deny Christianity itself and to place yourself outside the bounds of salvation.

No. Mary has nothing to do with Salvation. Nothing.

 

[Tonks]

No. Mary has nothing to do with Salvation. Nothing.

This is an example the single worst version of modern Christianity out there.

 

[revduane]

This is an example the single worst version of modern Christianity out there.

She had everything to do with His birth. But she, like you and me and all sinners are the ones that put Him on the Cross, because of His love for us. He wanted us in eternity with him.

 

[revduane]

This is an example the single worst version of modern Christianity out there.

As far as christianity is concerned. The CC has had it fair share of changes made to fit the religion. And to attract people to it.

 

[mike1reynolds]

not the vessel He used.

I missed that. This looks like a chauvinistic description of women as nothing more than objects. The fact that it comes from a women doesn't make it any less of an objectification of women.

 

[mike1reynolds]

You are living for the feud Mike. You defend it to the bone.

Defending OTHERS against unfair attacks does not make a feud. It is simply a concern for justice.

I have never said Jesus didn't honor his mother. He did call her woman a few times.

You assert that Jesus will not honor His mother's requests, so there is no point in asking Mary to ask her son for us. That is simply a dis to Jesus' mother.

She cannot answer prayers.

Why not?

That is why there are ministering Spirits, (Angel) that protect us. These angels have to obey the Word of God.

And God's mother does not? If doing this with Mary is worship, then why isn't doing exactly the same thing with angels worship? You have simply substituted one thing for another without there being any substantive difference in the situation.

 

[mike1reynolds]

As far as christianity is concerned. The CC has had it fair share of changes made to fit the religion.

Like the tripe nonsense of the Rapture which was invented in the 1800's?

 

[mike1reynolds]

BTW, if you think that I am always in lock step with the RCC you are a long way off. I only defend them against egregious attacks. Check out the last few posts in the following thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t331...e-a-lot-of-abuse-w-o-complaining.html&page=11

I have a LOT of disagreements with Catholicism, but they are under such seige by such totally unfair arguments that I never have a chance to bring up these many other issues for which I disagree with the RCC. If you weren't here, Rev, I would probably be the most disliked person here by the orthodox. I disgree with them on HOARD of issues. All of the attacks have just given me no chance to address any of those issues.

 

[vrunca]

Not all of Christianity of course, not even the majority, but never the less, I have never seen more contempt directed at Jesus' mother from anyone of another religion. It is Christians who have the most derrogatory things to say about Jesus' mother. You would think that she was just something the cat drug in, just anyone off the street, the way I see her described around here.

No WONDER it took me so long to see that value of Christianity. So many Christians are at war with their own founders!

I agree with you Mike, it is very sad, and I am sure that Jesus loves to hear such things as "vessel" being used to talk about his mom. I mean how would these people feel about someone talking so harshly and coldly about their mother.

Honestly, I didn't read all the other posts, because I already know that there will be blantent lies about those of us who have enough respect for Jesus to also show respect and love for His mother. It breaks my heart when people come on here and say things like that there are those of us...(RC, EO...) who "worship" Mary, when it actually is totally and blatantly a lie. Why do people do that? But like I said I will not even read the other posts because they are heartbreaking, but I can almost gaurantee that the words..worship and vessel come up!! So, what I will do is offer my rosary up for all of those who have so much anger and hatred in there heart, so they will become close enough to Jesus to at least be respectful to his Mother.