Pre-Trib Only My New End Times Chronology

[Jamdoc]

No, the barley and wheat harvest comes straight from the Bible and we know that the dead in Christ rise first. Everyone just assumes that they rise and immediately after that the alive are caught up. I don't believe that is so.
That's what they say. Passover and Pentecost are harvest feasts. I am unaware that any harvest has occurred and as such............they are unfulfilled.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and it is the most likely time for the harvest of the twelve tribes. That day, the day of the Lord, will not take them unaware.
There will be a rapture, resurrection at the coming of the Lord just before the wrath of God. So there is no problem.

God is God. He can do what He needs to solve what you perceive as a problem. The idea of a gap in time makes perfect sense as the dead in Christ rise first.

I have added nothing. At the rapture prior to the day of the Lord, they rise together.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

There will be two raptures. Jacob had two wives. He had to work 7 more years for the chosen bride. That's more than just a story.

There are only 2 resurrections listed in Revelation, separated by 1000 years.
Anyone who misses the first resurrection but dies before the first rapture, will be left waiting 1000 years and miss the coming of our Lord in the clouds.

 

[Choose Wisely]

There are only 2 resurrections listed in Revelation, separated by 1000 years.
Anyone who misses the first resurrection but dies before the first rapture, will be left waiting 1000 years and miss the coming of our Lord in the clouds.

Why will they be left waiting 1000 years. There will be another resurrection and rapture before the wrath of God begins. It will be the fall fruit harvest (6th seal, Matt 24, Rev 14).
If you think that the harvest at the 6th seal, Matt 24, and Rev 14 is the only resurrection then what are the 24 elders doing in heaven WITH CROWNS.

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Maybe you should consider that Noah is in ark the 7 days before the flood......for a reason...... and yet the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. There will be two raptures. One before the 70th week begins and one at the end of the 70th week.

 

[Jamdoc]

Why will they be left waiting 1000 years. There will be another resurrection and rapture before the wrath of God begins. It will be the fall fruit harvest (6th seal, Matt 24, Rev 14).
If you think that the harvest at the 6th seal, Matt 24, and Rev 14 is the only resurrection then what are the 24 elders doing in heaven WITH CROWNS.

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Maybe you should consider that Noah is in ark the 7 days before the flood......for a reason...... and yet the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. There will be two raptures. One before the 70th week begins and one at the end of the 70th week.

Because there are 2 resurrections. Not 3.
There's not a resurrection at the first rapture, resurrection at the second rapture, and then resurrection at final judgement.
There's a resurrection at the rapture, ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished") and then a resurrection at final judgement.
That's all that's listed in Revelation

 

[Choose Wisely]

Because there are 2 resurrections. Not 3.
There's not a resurrection at the first rapture, resurrection at the second rapture, and then resurrection at final judgement.
There's a resurrection at the rapture, ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished") and then a resurrection at final judgement.
That's all that's listed in Revelation

If that is so, what are those 24 elders doing in heaven with their crowns? They are before the throne before the seals are opened. They had to be resurrected.

 

[Jamdoc]

If that is so, what are those 24 elders doing in heaven with their crowns? They are before the throne before the seals are opened. They had to be resurrected.

I've never interpreted it that way, but then again we don't actually know who the 24 elders are. They aren't explained like other symbols so anything we guess is just that. A guess.
We're given 2 resurrections in Revelation, not 3. So no, I don't believe there's a resurrection before the seals.
We can interpret the word of truth and we can divide it and compare scripture to scripture. We cannot however, add things that are not in scripture to scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

The multitude in Revelation 7 coming out the great tribulation are not called the church in the text. Instead, they should be considered the great tribulation saints, who have died during the great tribulation.

It is their souls in heaven, in Revelation 7. They do not receive their resurrected bodies until Revelation 20:4-6.

You are referring to the great tribulation as the last 5990 years, no? They are presented as fully glorified in Revelation 7. People really need to understand the robes of white, before jumping to so many false conclusions about the Trumpets, Thunders and Satan’s 42 months. Any one alive on earth past the 7th seal will never be in the church this side of the NHNE. No telling what is what really in the NHNE. We cannot even figure out the last 1000 years of this reality, much less the next creation experience.

Revelation 20 refers only to the Millennium. No church on earth during the Millennium period. They never leave God’s presence in the temple of God. Revelation 7:17

“For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will shepherd them, will lead them
to springs of living water,
and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

This is not a single one time point. This is ongoing even in the New Jerusalem. But Christ also has a "day job". The point is this: At the 7th seal, the church is on God's "time". One Day later, the GWT. Then the NHNE.

On earth The Lord is reigning for 1000 earth years for His one last day job. Revelation 20 is the record of that day job. It pertains to only those gathered in the final harvest after the church is complete. In The 6th Seal, the church is complete and presented to God as the fulfillment of the Atonement on the Cross, and the Redemption of Adam's descendants back to being sons of God.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I've never interpreted it that way, but then again we don't actually know who the 24 elders are. They aren't explained like other symbols so anything we guess is just that. A guess.
We're given 2 resurrections in Revelation, not 3. So no, I don't believe there's a resurrection before the seals.
We can interpret the word of truth and we can divide it and compare scripture to scripture. We cannot however, add things that are not in scripture to scripture.

You keep saying that we have been given two resurrections, not three. That is a false conclusion. I've just shown you that there are 24 elders in heaven, WITH CROWNS. They have their rewards. You seem to want to conclude that they weren't resurrected which is a false conclusion. Secondly we can see the 24 elders speaking for a group of kings and priest that come out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So the evidence of people being around the throne, in heaven, with their rewards is in the scripture. We don't need to add anything to scripture, we don't need to make anything up, the proof is there. This proof is further solidified by the word. He tells you that you are not going to know when he comes. We obviously see that He will come immediately after the tribulation of those days after the signs of the sun, moon and stars. And yet He then tells you He will come in a time that you think not. That's because He is also coming before these events.

Matt 24:
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

We have further evidence that I have shown you that when He comes at the 6th seal, Rev 14, those people that come out of great tribulation are singing the song of Moses. They are Jews from the 12 tribes across the earth.

When the Church is raptured, blindness will be removed from part of Israel.

Rom 11:5 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The Jews will realize that the harvest has come and they are not saved.

Jer 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The 70th week is about the people of Daniel, not the Church. The Church will be raptured in the early summer wheat harvest. The 12 tribes across the earth will be raptured in the fall fruit harvest. We have scripture to support these things. There will be two raptures.

 

[iamlamad]

There are only 2 resurrections listed in Revelation, separated by 1000 years.
Anyone who misses the first resurrection but dies before the first rapture, will be left waiting 1000 years and miss the coming of our Lord in the clouds.

This is not really what John is telling us. The "first resurrection" is for the righteous for all time. It is not set at a certain point in time. Jesus was the first to partake of that "first" or primary or most honorable resurrection, as "the firstfruits" when He rose from the dead. The church will be the second wave, pretrib. Then the OT saints, the Two Witnesses and the Beheaded as the third wave. In this way, all the righteous will partake of this most honorable resurrection.

The next resurrection, a thousand years later, is fixed in time as after the 1000 years. It is specifically for the damned.

 

[iamlamad]

Why will they be left waiting 1000 years. There will be another resurrection and rapture before the wrath of God begins. It will be the fall fruit harvest (6th seal, Matt 24, Rev 14).
If you think that the harvest at the 6th seal, Matt 24, and Rev 14 is the only resurrection then what are the 24 elders doing in heaven WITH CROWNS.

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Maybe you should consider that Noah is in ark the 7 days before the flood......for a reason...... and yet the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. There will be two raptures. One before the 70th week begins and one at the end of the 70th week.

what are the 24 elders doing in heaven WITH CROWNS. Good question. It is my guess they were resurrected when Jesus was raised up: Matthew 27.

The "first" or most honorable resurrection is not a one time thing: it is for all the righteous for all time: Jesus was the first, the church will be second and then the behead with the OT saints later.

 

[iamlamad]

Because there are 2 resurrections. Not 3.
There's not a resurrection at the first rapture, resurrection at the second rapture, and then resurrection at final judgement.
There's a resurrection at the rapture, ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished") and then a resurrection at final judgement.
That's all that's listed in Revelation

This is where you err. All the righteous will take part in that "first" or most honorable resurrection. Jesus first, the church second ( around 2000 years later) the OT saints third. It is for the righteous. The other resurrection is for the damned.

 

[iamlamad]

I've never interpreted it that way, but then again we don't actually know who the 24 elders are. They aren't explained like other symbols so anything we guess is just that. A guess.
We're given 2 resurrections in Revelation, not 3. So no, I don't believe there's a resurrection before the seals.
We can interpret the word of truth and we can divide it and compare scripture to scripture. We cannot however, add things that are not in scripture to scripture.

We do know that "many" (meaning not all) of the OT saints were resurrected when Jesus rose. Perhaps they are the elders.

 

[iamlamad]

You keep saying that we have been given two resurrections, not three. That is a false conclusion. I've just shown you that there are 24 elders in heaven, WITH CROWNS. They have their rewards. You seem to want to conclude that they weren't resurrected which is a false conclusion. Secondly we can see the 24 elders speaking for a group of kings and priest that come out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So the evidence of people being around the throne, in heaven, with their rewards is in the scripture. We don't need to add anything to scripture, we don't need to make anything up, the proof is there. This proof is further solidified by the word. He tells you that you are not going to know when he comes. We obviously see that He will come immediately after the tribulation of those days after the signs of the sun, moon and stars. And yet He then tells you He will come in a time that you think not. That's because He is also coming before these events.

Matt 24:
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

We have further evidence that I have shown you that when He comes at the 6th seal, Rev 14, those people that come out of great tribulation are singing the song of Moses. They are Jews from the 12 tribes across the earth.

When the Church is raptured, blindness will be removed from part of Israel.

Rom 11:5 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The Jews will realize that the harvest has come and they are not saved.

Jer 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The 70th week is about the people of Daniel, not the Church. The Church will be raptured in the early summer wheat harvest. The 12 tribes across the earth will be raptured in the fall fruit harvest. We have scripture to support these things. There will be two raptures.

You keep saying that we have been given two resurrections, not three. That is a false conclusion. Exactly! Good answer.

and hast redeemed us to God other translations have it as and hast redeemed MEN to God It it is better translation, because the 4 Beasts are part of who is speaking. They are not "redeemed" men.

We obviously see that He will come immediately after the tribulation of those days after the signs of the sun, moon and stars. And yet He then tells you He will come in a time that you think not. That's because He is also coming before these events.
Great. I have never seen it put quite like this. It is certain He will come twice more.

The 70th week is about the people of Daniel, not the Church. Truth! But where do you get a rapture for the 12 tribes? What verse?

 

[Jamdoc]

We do know that "many" (meaning not all) of the OT saints were resurrected when Jesus rose. Perhaps they are the elders.

For once you say something that makes sense.
But yeah, I don't think that the elders are the raptured church, something along the lines of old testaments saints that were resurrected and taken to heaven when "the graves were opened" after the crucifixion might be. It is ultimately a guess though because they are not explained. Either way their identity cannot be 100% established so it's bad to base doctrine on their identity.
As to the 2 resurrections I think what John is communicating is that there's 2 resurrections connected to the return of Christ. There is only 1 resurrection event when He first comes out of the clouds and that catches all the faithful except a few special cases that were resurrected during the first coming.
But there's a "rest of the dead" leftover after that second coming resurrection that has to wait until final judgement. There's no mention of multiple waves of resurrections at multiple comings of our Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

No in my view they are the same event told in 2 different ways with different details to show how they connect to different things that Jesus told John in His earthly ministry, the Revelation 14 is showing the wheat and tares parable, revelation 20 showing the sheep and goats parable.
You're reading it in Chronological order and as a result, have deja vu everywhere.

The 6 Trumpets sound the separation of sheep and goats. The Thunders is the wheat and tares. The 42 months (of Satan) is the beheadings. These all die, as in harvested, and wait for the resurrection in Revelation 20.

The 3.5 years leading up to the 42 months allowed to Satan keeps getting shorter and shorter. Some in the church are still obeying God, confessing their sins and humbling themselves. Have there been any revivals breaking out across the world?

 

[Timtofly]

You only imagine I have deja vu! In reality I am fine. Sadly I must disagree. I don't see the judgment of the nations anywhere spelled out in Rev. 20. I don't think God showed that judgment to John so John did not write it. You are also mistaken about Rev. 14 and the tares. You see, the tares are harvested first and burned.

If you are saying that something in Revelation is shown two different ways, again I would have to disagree.

Revelation 10:1-4

"Next I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was dressed in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head; his face was like the sun, his legs like columns of fire;
2 and he had a little scroll lying open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land,
3 and shouted in a voice as loud as the roar of a lion; and when he shouted, seven thunderclaps sounded with voices that spoke.
4 When the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say,

“Seal up the things the seven thunders said,
do not write them down!”

We do not see the judgment on the Nations. It will happen, but we do not know the details. This is the harvest of the wheat and burning of the tares.

 

[Timtofly]

You are missing the part that the LORD HIMSELF comes for His Church...............He does not send His angels. In the coming of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse, the 6th seal and Rev 14......... He sends His angels.


You are not correct in what you are thinking. I believe that there is a pretribulation rapture........ because the word says that there is a pretribualtion rapture. Yes you correctly see a rapture at the 6th seal, Matt 24 and Rev 14. What you are not seeing is who is being raptured. I showed you in Rev 15 that those that are raptured are singing the song of Moses. That's because they are of the 12 tribes.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Do you not understand 1st fruits? If I tell you that the first fruits of the harvest are pumpkins, you know the harvest is pumpkins. If I tell you that the first fruits of the harvest are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes you know that the harvest is the 12 tribes.

I can show many, many, many, many, many reasons why there are two raptures. If you knew nothing more than the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel, you ought to be able to see what harvest is at the 6th seal. The Church will be raptured pre trib and the 12 tribes across the earth will be raptured pre wrath................only the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God and they do so in a place prepared for their protection.

I have not run across many people that understand how Revelation flows. You should be smart enough and hopefully in the spirit enough to understand that there will be a secret pretribulation rapture.

The sheep and wheat are not raptured at any time. They are Resurrected in Revelation 20:4. They populate the earth for 1000 years. The church is in Paradise complete and glorified in the 6th seal. The 144k are disciples that reap with Jesus Christ on the earth the final harvest. They end the harvest when Satan confronts them in Jerusalem. Revelation 13:7

7 "it was allowed to make war on God’s holy people and to defeat them; and it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation."

They are not killed. Jesus Christ and the 144K remove themselves to heaven for Satan's 42 months. They return to destroy those who destroyed the earth at the battle of Armageddon.

 

[Jamdoc]

The 6 Trumpets sound the separation of sheep and goats. The Thunders is the wheat and tares. The 42 months (of Satan) is the beheadings. These all die, as in harvested, and wait for the resurrection in Revelation 20.

The 3.5 years leading up to the 42 months allowed to Satan keeps getting shorter and shorter. Some in the church are still obeying God, confessing their sins and humbling themselves. Have there been any revivals breaking out across the world?

The beheadings aren't the entire time of the 42 months. But beheadings are taking place during the 42 months. The coming of Jesus cuts those days short (Matthew 24:22)
By how long, we don't know. But after He comes is the wrath of God.
the 7 trumpets, and 7 vials, are the wrath of God.

 

[Timtofly]

Because there are 2 resurrections. Not 3.
There's not a resurrection at the first rapture, resurrection at the second rapture, and then resurrection at final judgement.
There's a resurrection at the rapture, ("But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished") and then a resurrection at final judgement.
That's all that's listed in Revelation

The simple truth is those in Christ were already resurrected in Christ in 30AD. NO one likes the fact that death is the "resurrection". Paul claims to be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord. No one has prevented the dead from rising first. They are already in Paradise waiting for their glorified bodies. Seal 5 and 6 happens within seconds of each other. If it takes 5 months, then Paul was wrong. If it is a little season, then maybe no faithful were found alive at the rapture. All were already in Paradise. Only the final harvest remains.

 

[Timtofly]

The beheadings aren't the entire time of the 42 months. But beheadings are taking place during the 42 months. The coming of Jesus cuts those days short (Matthew 24:22)
By how long, we don't know. But after He comes is the wrath of God.
the 7 trumpets, and 7 vials, are the wrath of God.

The 42 months of Satan are not cut short. The 3.5 years leading up to Satan's 42 months are shortened.

You are going to have to define this wrath of God period or type of judgment. Seal 4 where 25% of humanity dies by famine, plague, war, and wild animals is some wrath and the tribulation "of those days". Then in the Trumpets, 33% of humanity dies. We do not have the details of the Thunders, but 50% would be the next logical amount. This would leave only 25% of humanity left at the end. Letting Satan have 42 months of terror is God's wrath on all who accept the mark. Salvation then is only by beheadings. Sure; the sooner the better. Why postpone the inevitable? Then all the rest of humanity die in the battle of Armageddon.

Then the first Resurrection outside of being in Christ happens. The sheep and wheat and those beheaded will rise, judged, and given life, incorruptible bodies, free from the second death. The rest of the dead, in sin, do not come forth until they appear before the GWT. The 144k are the first fruits of the Revelation 20:4 resurrection. Revelation 14:4

4 "These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb;"

So John is adding a totally different twist. The church had the OT believers as firstfruits at the Resurrection in 30AD. The population of Paradise. The 144k Jews, after the rapture, are the firstfruits of those harvested during the last 3.5 years of Jacob's trouble. The sheep and wheat of the trumpets and thunders have to die, to put this sinful fallen body inherited from Adam physically in the past. The harvest ends at the start of Satan's 42 months. The only bodily resurrection since the moment of the Cross, when Jesus declared, "It is finished", and Paradise was opened for Adam's descendants. The thief went to Paradise that day, when his body died, a few hours later.

 

[Jamdoc]

The 42 months of Satan are not cut short. The 3.5 years leading up to Satan's 42 months are shortened.

This is the kind of interpretation that happens when you don't see Revelation as 2 parallel visions of the same events but somehow see it as Jesus is established as King, but then hands over power and authority to Satan to hand over to the beast. Which duplicates a lot of events and quickly stops making sense. Which is part of why Revelation is such a confusing book to many people because they do not divide it correctly. Revelation 10, particularly 10:7, exists as a chapter specifically to mark that the 7th trumpet is the end of that narrative. That anything else seen after John witnesses the judgement of the dead, is not a continuation, but another view.

You are going to have to define this wrath of God period or type of judgment.

Let's break this down
Revelation 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So we see here, those who are martyred during the great tribulations, this would be during those 42 months that the Antichrist reigns who has been beheading Christians after the Abomination of Desolation, complaining that God has not judged the world yet, He has not begun His wrath yet. Because for the wrath to come first the world must be judged. They are told that it will not happen, until a number of Christians that were destined to be martyred in this period were killed. Anything before the 5th seal, is not the wrath of God therefore.
Revelation 6:12-17

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

That is as clear as it gets to tell you when exactly does the wrath of God begin. After Jesus appears in the clouds, sitting on His throne, after the sun and moon go dark, as has been told all through OT prophecy as the sign that precedes the day of the Lord. Whatever happens after this point in time, is the wrath of God. Chapter 7 is kind of parenthetical but I still think it chronologically happens after the sixth seal event before the 7th, chapter 10 is parenthetical, and the two witnesses part of chapter 11 I THINK had been ongoing rather than 3.5 years of time passing between the 6th trumpet and 7th trumpet. the end part of it may be happening at the same time as the rapture, where they get resurrected and brought up to heaven. But I'm flexible on the two witnesses. It does just make more sense than 3.5 years between the 6th and 7th trumpet.
the rest of chapter 11, the 7th trumpet, the earthquake, and the announcement that the world now belongs to Jesus and there's a final judgement of the dead. Very similar to what happens in chapter 20. Just chapter 20 gives a length of time between the establishment of the kingdom and final judgement.

Second vision
Revelation 14:6-10

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

First off, we see that the Lord does not judge the world until the great commission is completed, and ultimately, the church does not complete it themselves, An angel finishes the job. This has to happen before the end can come, as Jesus said in Matthew 24:14
Pretribbers seem to understand that the gospel has to be preached to everyone before the rapture can take place.
Here we see that only happens after the mark of the beast has been around
Second, we see that the world is now judged. God doesn't bring His wrath until He has judged. So the stuff that happened before, the mark of the beast, and persecution, was not the wrath of God.
Third, we see that not everyone has taken the mark of the beast, there are some who are still alive, who have not taken it, and are warned against it.
Then we come to the appearance of Jesus in the clouds
Revelation 14:14-20

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The wrath begins after the harvest (the rapture) that Jesus performs when He came on the clouds. Nothing before that was the wrath. The wrath happens after. Just like in the first narrative, the first 5 seals were not the wrath of God, Jesus came at the 6th seal, and that's when the wrath of God began. In the first narrative it's represented by trumpets. In the second narrative it's represented by bowls/vials.
Revelation 15:1

15 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:1

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Couldn't be clearer that the wrath of God is the vials, and not before, and in the first narrative it's the trumpets, and not before.