Lee Grady/Charisma Mag Article worth reading . . .

[Mathetes the kerux]

For conversation . . .

LIFE AFTER LAKELAND: Sorting Out the Confusion
-by J. Lee Grady.

Todd Bentley’s announcement that his marriage is ending has
thrown our movement into a tailspin—and questions need to be answered.

It was not supposed to end like this.

Evangelist Todd Bentley had heralded the Lakeland revival as the
greatest Pentecostal outpouring since Azusa Street. From his
stage in a gigantic tent in Florida, Bentley preached to thousands,
bringing many of them to the stage for prayer. Many claimed to
be healed of deafness, blindness, heart problems, depression and
dozens of other conditions in the Lakeland services, which ran for
more than 100 consecutive nights. Bentley announced confidently
that dozens of people had been raised from the dead during the revival.

But this week, a few days after the Canadian preacher announced
the end of his visits to Lakeland, he told his staff that his marriage
is ending. Without blaming the pace of the revival for Bentley’s
personal problems, his board released a public statement saying
that he and his wife, Shonnah, are separating. The news shocked
Bentley’s adoring fans and saddened those who have questioned
his credibility since the Lakeland movement erupted in early April.

I’m sad. I’m disappointed. And I’m angry. Here are few of my
many, many questions about this fiasco:

Why did so many people flock to Lakeland from around the world
to rally behind an evangelist who had serious credibility issues
from the beginning?

To put it bluntly, we’re just plain gullible.

From the first week of the Lakeland revival, many discerning
Christians raised questions about Bentley’s beliefs and practices.
They felt uneasy when he said he talked to an angel in his hotel
room. They sensed something amiss when he wore a T-shirt with
a skeleton on it. They wondered why a man of God would cover
himself with tattoos. They were horrified when they heard him
describe how he tackled a man and knocked his tooth out during prayer.

But among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon,
discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow
and follow. The message was clear: “This is God. Don’t question.”
So before we could all say, “Sheeka Boomba” (as Bentley often
prayed from his pulpit), many people went home, prayed for people
and shoved them to the floor with reckless abandon, Bentley-style.

I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We’re
spiritual hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry
people will eat anything.

Many of us would rather watch a noisy demonstration of miracles,
signs and wonders than have a quiet Bible study. Yet we are faced
today with the sad reality that our untempered zeal is a sign of
immaturity. Our adolescent craving for the wild and crazy makes
us do stupid things. It’s way past time for us to grow up.

Why didn’t anyone in Lakeland denounce the favorable comments
Bentley made about William Branham?

This one baffles me. Branham embraced horrible deception near
the end of his ministry... and his strange doctrines are still
embraced by a cultlike following today...

Why didn’t anyone correct this error from the pulpit? Godly leaders
are supposed to protect the sheep from heresy, not spoon feed
deception to them. Only God knows how far this poison traveled
from Lakeland to take root elsewhere. May God forgive us for
allowing His Word to be so flippantly contaminated.

A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after
Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that
a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ
when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch.
Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary
caution when an imposter shows up.

Why did God TV tell people that “any criticism of Todd Bentley is demonic”?

This ridiculous statement was actually made on one of God TV’s
pre-shows. In fact, the network’s hosts also warned listeners that
if they listened to criticism of Bentley, they could lose their healings.

This is cultic manipulation at its worst. The Bible tells us that the
Bereans were noble believers because they studied the Scriptures
daily “to see whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11, NASB).
Yet in the case of Lakeland, honest intellectual inquiry was viewed
as a sign of weakness. People were expected to jump first and
then open their eyes.

Just because we believe in the power of the Holy Spirit does not
mean we check our brains at the church door. We are commanded
to test the spirits. Jesus wants us to love Him with our hearts and our minds.

Because of the Lakeland scandal, there may be large numbers of
people who feel they’ve been burned by Bentley. Some may give
up on church and join the growing ranks of bitter, disenfranchised
Christians. Others may suffer total spiritual shipwreck. This could
have been avoided if leaders had been more vocal about their
objections and urged people to evaluate spiritual experiences
through the filter of God’s Word.

Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on
June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?

This controversial ceremony was organized by Peter Wagner, who
felt that one of Bentley’s greatest needs was proper spiritual
covering. He asked California pastors Che Ahn and Bill Johnson,
along with Canadian pastor John Arnott, to lay hands on Bentley
and bring him under their care.

Bentley certainly needs such covering. No one in ministry today
should be out on their own, living in isolation without checks,
balances and wise counsel. It was commendable that Wagner
reached out to Bentley and that Bentley acknowledged his need
for spiritual fathers by agreeing to submit to the process. The
question remains, however, whether it was wise to commend
Bentley during a televised commissioning service that at times
seemed more like a king’s coronation.

In hindsight, we can all see that it would have been better to take
Bentley into a back room and talk about his personal issues.

The Bible tells us that ordination of a minister is a sober
responsibility. Paul wrote: “Do not lay hands upon anyone too
hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others”
(1 Tim. 5:22). We might be tempted to rush the process, but the
apostle warned against fast-tracking ordination—and he said that
those who commission a minister who is not ready for the job will
bear some of the blame for his failures.

I trust that Wagner, Ahn, Johnson and Arnott didn’t know of
Bentley’s problems before they ordained him. I am sure they are
saddened by the events of this week and are reaching out to
Bentley and his wife to promote healing and restoration. But I
believe that they, along with Bentley and the owners of God TV,
owe the body of Christ a forthright, public apology for thrusting
Bentley’s ministry into the spotlight prematurely. (Perhaps such
an apology should be aired on God TV.)

Can anything good come out of this?

That depends on how people respond. If the men assigned to
oversee Bentley offer loving but firm correction, and if Bentley
responds humbly to the process by stepping out of ministry for a
season of rehabilitation, we could witness a healthy case of church
discipline play out the way it is supposed to. If all those who were
so eager to promote Bentley now rush just as fast to repent for
their errors in judgment, then the rest of us could breathe a huge
sigh of relief—and the credibility of our movement could be restored.

I still believe that God desires to visit our nation in supernatural
power. I know He wants to heal multitudes, and I will continue
praying for a healing revival to sweep across the United States.
But we must contend for the genuine, not an imitation. True revival
will be accompanied by brokenness, humility, reverence and
repentance—not the arrogance, showmanship and empty hype
that often was on display in Lakeland.

We are weathering an unprecedented season of moral failure and
spiritual compromise in our nation today. I urge everyone in the
charismatic world to pray for Bentley; his wife, Shonnah; his three
young children; Bentley’s ministry staff; and the men and women
who serve as his counselors and advisers. Let’s pray that God will
turn this embarrassing debacle into an opportunity for miraculous restoration.

~SOURCE: http://www.charismanews.com/

(there ya go Jim!)

 

[NewSong]

Thank you for posting this opinion! This happened in the revivals back in 1990s too! We had someone we followed around and it came to a complete and abrupt halt. The speaker died! It was an evangelist of one of the great "revivalists." Thankfully God called me out of it and so I wasn't so devestated but many of my friends and church family were.

A lot of prayers need to be prayed for those who were following the leader as well as for the staff and the Bentley's.

 

[JimB]

Thanx, Mat.

If there is one subject that needs to be discussed in this forum it is this one.

I have seen so many P/C “leader” scandals come and go through the years I have been in this thing, that they are almost predictable. IMO, this one was inevitable.

And yet, we never seem to learn from our mistakes.

Once again, what is that definition of insanity?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

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[JimB]

If this encouraging trend of discernment continues, I just may renew my subscription to Charisma Magazine and become a "Charismatic" again.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

 

[NewSong]

If this encouraging trend of discernment continues, I just may renew my subscription to Charisma Magazine and become a "Charismatic" again.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

A lot of us are so tired of deception and Charisma is picking up on the public's exasperation of being ripped off by anemic Chrisitanity and leaders!~

 

[Alpine]

I respect what J. Lee Grady has to say ( I subscribe to the magazine) and I noticed that the magazine was dubious about the whole Lakeland thing. Kind of interesting they are not as discerning about the ad's they allow in the magazine though. They've allowed all kinds of strange ad's about any kind of apostle and prophet you can think of.

 

[JimB]

I respect what J. Lee Grady has to say ( I subscribe to the magazine) and I noticed that the magazine was dubious about the whole Lakeland thing. Kind of interesting they are not as discerning about the ad's they allow in the magazine though. They've allowed all kinds of strange ad's about any kind of apostle and prophet you can think of.

I agree. It’s those cheezy full page ads for yet another “prophetic” conference with enough “bishops” to elect a pope and enough “doctors” to perform a heart transplant that caused me to cancel my subscription in the first place.

Maybe, if enough people complained to Grady about the mixed message the magazine is sending something would be done. Anyhow, here’s their email address: charisma@strang.com.



~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

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[Mathetes the kerux]

I respect what J. Lee Grady has to say ( I subscribe to the magazine) and I noticed that the magazine was dubious about the whole Lakeland thing. Kind of interesting they are not as discerning about the ad's they allow in the magazine though. They've allowed all kinds of strange ad's about any kind of apostle and prophet you can think of.

NO DOUBT

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Thanx, Mat.

If there is one subject that needs to be discussed in this forum it is this one.

I have seen so many P/C “leader” scandals come and go through the years I have been in this thing, that they are almost predictable. IMO, this one was inevitable.

And yet, we never seem to learn from our mistakes.

Once again, what is that definition of insanity?

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

Yep.

Separation is not as bad as the whole sexual issues . . . but it certainly raises the flag to question:

1. How long has the problem been happening
-Probably for awhile, though this is speculation. Things like this don't just happen. In most cases they are cumulative.
-If it has been happening for awhile . . . the leadership that allowed him there for such a prominent position and emphasis is to be faulted by not checking him with the hard questions.

and assert

2. Our standards for such high profile ministry need to be held with greater tenacity
-We need to ask the hard questions before we allow them out into the open air under our covering
-Doctrine, marriage, and overall life patterns in sanctification need to be addressed

 

[JimB]

Yep.

Separation is not as bad as the whole sexual issues . . . but it certainly raises the flag to question:

1. How long has the problem been happening
-Probably for awhile, though this is speculation. Things like this don't just happen. In most cases they are cumulative.
-If it has been happening for awhile . . . the leadership that allowed him there for such a prominent position and emphasis is to be faulted by not checking him with the hard questions.

and assert

2. Our standards for such high profile ministry need to be held with greater tenacity
-We need to ask the hard questions before we allow them out into the open air under our covering
-Doctrine, marriage, and overall life patterns in sanctification need to be addressed

The only “standard” that seems to be valid among Charismaniacs is if the preacher has reached some sort of celebrity status. Character and ethics are incidental. If they are famous, God must have anointed them. It never seems to occur to some people that a lifetime of self-promotion is not a factor in why they are able to draw a crowd and that, really, numbers don’t mean anything.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

 

[~RENEE~]

Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on
June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?

so then you shoul only be ordained if you don't have personal problems. Ok let's shoot every minister alive. Cause I'm sorry to inform everyone ministers are HUMAN and have PROBLEMS.

 

[~RENEE~]

boy there is a lot of hate and anger in that supposed Christlike article.

 

[JimB]

TB has my undying sympathy, at least for the marital trouble he is in. I pray that he and his wife reconcile. But I am not in sympathy with the unwarranted adulation of him personally and the unfounded defense of his errors that I have read in this forum. Those are separate issues altogether. It is not hatred.

His marital problems were not willful (I would hope) but many of his errors were.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

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[JimfromOhio]

We can learn from others who believe such doctrines and examine our own. Credibility is an issue. Leaders/Teachers must also be examined, confirmed and ordained by elders and leaders (Acts 6:6; 13: 1-3; I Tim. 4: 14). There are many pastors and leaders (example: Word of Faith) are rarely governed in the way elders have oversight of the church (Acts 20:28; I Pet. 5:2-3) and responsible to rule the congregation (I Tim. 3:5; 5:17; I Thes. 5:12; Heb. 13:7, 17, 24).

Doctrines should be carefully scrutinized (to look over closely and discerning) before we rely on them and some people don't do what God says. Discernment is needed today to help guide the sheeps to discern the from false to truth. If there were no relationship of accountability, it would be meaningless to “tell it to the church,” because the offending person would simply say, “That church has no jurisdiction over me.”

Over the years, Christian movements have changed the way we worship God. I have left and avoided many churches that do not Worship God the way God expected us to worship.

I enjoy the article and thank you for sharing this. This is a "rude awakening" that everyone needs to see. We all need to be careful and not being gullible accepting doctrines.

 

[dkbwarrior]

boy there is a lot of hate and anger in that supposed Christlike article.

I agree. I almost didn't renew my subscription last time, because of his position on the Senators investigation into those 6 charismatic (read WOF) ministries. But I did, and now I am regreting it.

Here is a copy of the letter I just sent to Charisma:

To Whom It May Concern:

I have to tell you that I am considering cancelling my subscription to your magazine. I just read the recent article by J. Lee Grady regarding Todd Bentley. While I have not been a follower of Todds, I think that your article is overly judgemental, and is close to the line of taking the side of the accuser.

Love believes all things (1 Cor 13). That doesn't mean that we are complete pushovers, but it does mean that we do not judge a brother or sister without all the evidence. Such actions are the the work of the accuser of the brethren, not the work of the Spirit of God.

Though I think there are some issues with chasing the annointing, (as if we don't already have it as christians) that need to be addressed by proper teaching, (which is why I didn't personally follow the Lakeland 'outpouring'), I see judgement as a much greater evil in our midst.

After all, Jesus warned us many times of the consequences of judgment, but rarely if ever against unbridled zeal. Judging ones brother is hating ones brother according to the scripture, and that carries its own reward. Over zealousness, while often misdirected, has the beneift of being honorable, and God looks on the heart.

This isn't the first time I have felt this way about Charisma either. J. Lee Grady caught my attention awhile back with his quick to judge articles regarding the Senators investigation into 6 Charismatic ministries. I considered cancelling my subscription then, but felt that I would practice what I preach and give Charisma the benefit of the doubt, believing the best of your intentions.

We, as followers of love, should err on the side of believing the best of others, not err on the side of being quick to judge. And trust that God, through our sincere prayers, will be able to rule His own house well.

If you wish to keep Grady, mabey you should consider another commentator that is given equal prominance that takes the other side of the coin, so to speak, placing their articles side by side. Because it this continues the way it appears to be going, I will no longer support Charisma magazine with my dollars.

Peace In Him:

 

[JimB]

I agree. I almost didn't renew my subscription last time, because of his position on the Senators investigation into those 6 charismatic (read WOF) ministries. But I did, and now I am regreting it.

Here is a copy of the letter I just sent to Charisma:

Well, thanks for the idea. I just renewed my subscription and I think I will write a letter commending them.

I guess we cancel each other out.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

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[JimfromOhio]

I never suscribed this magazine but now after researching and reading the latest issues, I am considering subscribing. I am happy there are "sound" articles out there now.

 

[mont974x4]

I especially appreciated this statement from the article:

"I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We’re
spiritual hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry
people will eat anything."



In our search, and yearning, for our own burning bush moment, are we distracted by sparklers?

 

[JimB]

When judgment doesn’t begin in the house of God, where it should, God will, as He has done before, use Philistines and Babylonians to judge His people. The hidden things of darkness among us will be brought to the light and our secrets shouted from the housetops. He may even use congress and the media to take the cover off of things if we refuse to acknowledge there is sin in our camp.

What is happening in Lakeland and to the six ministers who free use their government tax exemption but will not be open about their finances may very well be the judgment of God. Not saying it is—but it may be.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

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​

 

[~RENEE~]

When judgment doesn’t begin in the house of God, where it should, God will, as He has done before, use Philistines and Babylonians to judge His people. The hidden things of darkness among us will be brought to the light and our secrets shouted from the housetops. He may even use congress and the media to take the cover off of things if we refuse to acknowledge there is sin in our camp.

What is happening in Lakeland and to the six ministers who free use their government tax exemption but will not be open about their finances may very well be the judgment of God. Not saying it is—but it may be.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

you see the difference between your judgement and God's judgement Is your judgement is based on what YOU see with YOUR mortal eye. God's judgement is righteous he sees much more than you or any other man.

BTW the second half of your statement pay attention to the truth. The info has been disclosed to the IRS. I know you would prefer to have them ask YOUR permission first.