LDS LDS: No Official Apology for Racism of the Past

[drstevej]

Joseph Smith: (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 270; History of the Church, 5: 218).

"Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."

Brigham Young: (Journal of Discourses, 10:110)

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be."

===

Your prophets see their racial/racist views as everlasting.

 

[Alla27]

Then why not just come out and say that God told you to discriminate against blacks

We will. Right after you say this: God discriminated against the Gentiles by not sending His Son to ALL people but ONLY to one group. By calling this group "children" and the rest "dogs". Are you ready to come out and to say this?

and then have new direction later?

Please, say: God discriminated against the Gentiles for thousands of years and then had new direction later, after Jesus ascended to heaven. Are you ready to say this?
Hmm,... I don't think so.

 

[Hammster]

I want to know why the Church has to apologize for God's will?
If there is God's will then why the Church has to apologize.

I guess you don't. Embrace it.

 

[Hammster]

We will. Right after you say this: God discriminated against the Gentiles by not sending His Son to ALL people but ONLY to one group. By calling this group "children" and the rest "dogs". Are you ready to come out and to say this?

Please, say: God discriminated against the Gentiles for thousands of years and then had new direction later, after Jesus ascended to heaven. Are you ready to say this?
Hmm,... I don't think so.

God didn't discriminate. He rightfully should have destroyed everyone. He chose to have mercy.

 

[Alla27]

Joseph Smith: (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 270; History of the Church, 5: 218).
"Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."
Your prophets see their racial/racist views as everlasting.

Not in this quote.

Brigham Young: (Journal of Discourses, 10:110)
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be."
Your prophets see their racial/racist views as everlasting.

Not in this quote. We know that God "changes" His mind. One day the Gentiles are dogs and Son was not sent to them. Later they can be children and God sent His apostles to the Gentiles.
At that time God didn't want one seed to be mixed with another. Later God said "it is OK".
Will you apologies for Jesus's word about the Gentiles: "dogs". I don't think so. We do not apologize for this kind of discrimination.

 

[Alla27]

God didn't discriminate. He rightfully should have destroyed everyone. He chose to have mercy.

Perfect. LDS Church did not discriminate against black people. The Church obeyed will of God. He(God) rightfully should have destroyed everyone(whites and blacks). He chose to have mercy.

 

[Hammster]

Perfect. LDS Church did not discriminate against black people. The Church obeyed will of God. He(God) rightfully should have destroyed everyone(whites and blacks). He chose to have mercy.

Awesome. Nothing to support that. But that's none of my business.

 

[Alla27]

Awesome. Nothing to support that. But that's none of my business.

Perfect. Nothing to disprove that the Church followed God's will. Sometimes God calls one group of people "dogs" but later He "changes" His mind and commands to preach the Gospel to them. For thousands of years God didn't include them in His chosen peoples. Now He gave them this opportunity. Nobody apologizes for God's will/decisions. Nobody.

 

[Hammster]

Perfect. Nothing to disprove that the Church followed God's will. Sometimes God calls one group of people "dogs" but later He "changes" His mind and commands to preach the Gospel to them. For thousands of years God didn't include them in His chosen peoples. Now He gave them this opportunity. Nobody apologizes for God's will/decisions. Nobody.

Even though people of color are Gentiles and part of the church since the new covenant, apparently you all heard from God that he changed again.

 

[Alla27]

Even though people of color are Gentiles and part of the church since the new covenant, apparently you all heard from God that he changed again.

Yes, Gods ways are mysterious. No man can understand them perfectly.

 

[Alla27]

Daughters of God who are members of God's true Church which is LDS Church, of course, don't have priesthood now. But we will have it in eternity. We just have to wait sometimes for certain things or blessings. Patiently. Without complaining and without accusing God.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, Gods ways are mysterious. No man can understand them perfectly.

I can understand what's revealed. There's nothing in scripture that reveals what you are proposing.

 

[withwonderingawe]

So why are you guys bristling at Dr Steve's question?

Because he asked the question first.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Joseph Smith: (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 270; History of the Church, 5: 218).

"Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."

Brigham Young: (Journal of Discourses, 10:110)

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be."

===

Your prophets see their racial/racist views as everlasting.

Once again you are taking Joseph's quote out of context, Me thinks you do not read what we post so perhaps we should start to ignore you, I mean turn about is fair play!!!!

 

[Hammster]

Because he asked the question first.

Uh...okay.

 

[drstevej]

Once again you are taking Joseph's quote out of context, Me thinks you do not read what we post so perhaps we should start to ignore you, I mean turn about is fair play!!!!

Delightsome by me.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Once again you are taking Joseph's quote out of context, Me thinks you do not read what we post so perhaps we should start to ignore you, I mean turn about is fair play!!!!

How can that be taken out of context? That is really a poor excuse.

 

[drstevej]

Question Thirteenth. 'Are the Mormons abolitionists?' No, unless delivering the people from priestcraft, and the priests from the power of Satan, should be considered abolition. But we do not believe in setting the negroes free.

Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Elders' Journal, July 1838.

 

[withwonderingawe]

How can that be taken out of context? That is really a poor excuse.

First this is an entry into his journal it is a series of small thoughts he discussed while sitting in a room of non Mormons who are discussing the slave problem. He starts off saying something startling to many in those days Black men have souls and are save able, they are just as intelligent as white men and given an education they will outshine their slave owners. Then he says "Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization. Because faith is wanting the fruits are..." If you actually read the Book of Mormon you will learn that it is only through faith in Christ that we will all begin to see each other as brothers. When you added in the rest of the thought you realize Joseph never intended this to be literal, he was making a statement on the condition of mankind in general.

But steve here will never admit it because it does not fit the picture he wants you to see, he will continue to re-post this over and over again. If he really wanted you to know the truth he would take the time to look up Joseph Smith's presidential platform.

Joseph did not like abolitionist they wanted to end slavery NOW! Which meant it would send the United States into war killing thousands and thousands. It also met thousands of black people without homes, without work and without away to sustain themselves. Joseph's plan was to gradually buy the slaves using money from the sell of land in the west. He then wanted to educate them and give them a skill to support themselves, help them buy their own farms. The slave owners would be reimbursed and be able to start running their farms in a normal manner and adjust their economy to a real free enterprise system. If the people of America had listened to him we would have avoided the civil war but no instead they murdered him and the war he prophesied of came to be.

 

[Hammster]

First this is an entry into his journal it is a series of small thoughts he discussed while sitting in a room of non Mormons who are discussing the slave problem. He starts off saying something startling to many in those days Black men have souls and are save able, they are just as intelligent as white men and given an education they will outshine their slave owners. Then he says "Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization. Because faith is wanting the fruits are..." If you actually read the Book of Mormon you will learn that it is only through faith in Christ that we will all begin to see each other as brothers. When you added in the rest of the thought you realize Joseph never intended this to be literal, he was making a statement on the condition of mankind in general.

But steve here will never admit it because it does not fit the picture he wants you to see, he will continue to re-post this over and over again. If he really wanted you to know the truth he would take the time to look up Joseph Smith's presidential platform.

Joseph did not like abolitionist they wanted to end slavery NOW! Which meant it would send the United States into war killing thousands and thousands. It also met thousands of black people without homes, without work and without away to sustain themselves. Joseph's plan was to gradually buy the slaves using money from the sell of land in the west. He then wanted to educate them and give them a skill to support themselves, help them buy their own farms. The slave owners would be reimbursed and be able to start running their farms in a normal manner and adjust their economy to a real free enterprise system. If the people of America had listened to him we would have avoided the civil war but no instead they murdered him and the war he prophesied of came to be.

So he thought they were a different species? How is that not beyond racist?