"Lay Sister White right to one side.."

[reddogs]

Red dogs you are on target with Sister White .I am glad that you are not stoning the prophet.

Thanks Sumo, many here not only want to stone but destroy any message or light that the prophet brings......

 

[reddogs]

Bradford's book More Than a Prophet is available free online:
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm.

He definitely is more honest in addressing the criticisms of EGW than some of the more traditional Adventist authors have been. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, however.

Honest critique never hurts..

 

[djconklin]

I have never ridiculed her, and I do not hate her. I just do not accept her writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth."

"a" not "the".

 

[Restin]

EGW is our modern day Moses....No?

Jesus words in....John 5:45-47

45 "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father;
the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

47 "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" NASU

 

[sentipente]

Thanks Sumo, many here not only want to stone but destroy any message or light that the prophet brings......

Brings? The prophet is dead. The present tense is inappropriate here.

 

[Joe67]

So if Ellen White's views were never intended to be a test of doctrine and fellowship, and the Review writers were never supposed to refer to her writings as authority on any point, I wonder what James would think of the church's current fundamental-belief statement regarding his wife:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
​

Perhaps James couldn't be a traditional Adventist either if he were alive today.

Revelation 1:1 reveals the chain of authority that is in God.

God to Jesus. Jesus to his angel. Jesus' angel to Jesus' servant. Jesus' servant to the servants.

EGW was in the chain of revelation. She was not the ultimate authority. She had the similar work as the man who said,"Are you he or do we look for another." The work was in the same authority as the man who said, "God was angry at me for your sakes, and I cannot go over Jordan with you."

Joe

 

[Idol Breaker]

Brings? The prophet is dead. The present tense is inappropriate here.

That's only assuming that there are or were, however you want to look at it, to be no other prophets after EGW, which, if we are to believe the Bible and stand on the promises of God, is not to be the case.

 

[Idol Breaker]

So if Ellen White's views were never intended to be a test of doctrine and fellowship, and the Review writers were never supposed to refer to her writings as authority on any point, I wonder what James would think of the church's current fundamental-belief statement regarding his wife:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

​

Perhaps James couldn't be a traditional Adventist either if he were alive today.

I believe you misunderstand what is being said here. Pay special attentions to "a continuing and authoritative source of truth" notice it doesn't say "the continuing and authoritative source of truth"? A source is another reference to be used in addition to other references. Check out the next sentence "They (EGW's writings) also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." A standard is the base by which other things are compared, in this case that standard is the Bible and the emphasis is that all things must be tested by it.

EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.

(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)

 

[sentipente]

That's only assuming that there are or were, however you want to look at it, to be no other prophets after EGW, which, if we are to believe the Bible and stand on the promises of God, is not to be the case.

This is not clear. Are you saying there were or were not to be any prophets after EGW?

 

[sentipente]

EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.

(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)

Why do you need "a" standard if you have access to "the" standard? It sounds as if you don't trust "the" standard and have more confidence in "a" standard.

 

[Sophia7]

I believe you misunderstand what is being said here. Pay special attentions to "a continuing and authoritative source of truth" notice it doesn't say "the continuing and authoritative source of truth"? A source is another reference to be used in addition to other references. Check out the next sentence "They (EGW's writings) also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." A standard is the base by which other things are compared, in this case that standard is the Bible and the emphasis is that all things must be tested by it.

EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.

(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)

This is an old thread that has been resurrected. Since a few people have commented on my post from almost two years ago, though, let me just clarify my point, which was that I do not accept EGW's writings as a "continuing and authoritative source of truth" at all. This whole thing about her not being the source is irrelevant. No one said that Adventism teaches that her writings are the source or the standard, including me.

 

[mva1985]

EGW's writing are not the standard, just a clearer glass for us to use to see more clearly. We can use it or we can discard it, the choice, as in everything we do in our lives, is ours.

(I'm surprised you others did catch this right off)

Why do you need "a" standard if you have access to "the" standard? It sounds as if you don't trust "the" standard and have more confidence in "a" standard.

Her writings do point people back to the Bible - that's a good thing.

 

[Pythons]

Reddogs,

The following is Fundamental Belief # 18 of the SDA Church

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

This states that Ellen's writings are "A" continuing and AUTHORITATIVE source of truth and states that these writings INTERPRET the Bible. Ellen's writings provide the SDA Church guidance, instruction and correction.

Smacks of 2nd Timothy 3,16 does it not?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The Bible says Scripture is "profitable" for correction, doctrine, instruction and FB #18 places Ellen's work as equal (one in the same). There is no laying Ellen to the right here my friend, which is exactly what Walter Martin (A Baptist apologist who caused the SDA Church to give birth to the book Questions on Doctrine demonstrated). The following video aptly demonstrates it.

YouTube - 7-14 Seventh Day Adventist -VS- Christianity - Debate

 

[mva1985]

The following is Fundamental Belief # 18 of the SDA Church

Originally Posted by FB #18

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
​

This states that Ellen's writings are "A" continuing and AUTHORITATIVE source of truth and states that these writings INTERPRET the Bible. Ellen's writings provide the SDA Church guidance, instruction and correction.

No where in the FB #18 does it say that EGW's writings interpret the Bible.

It says that her writings "make clear" that the Bible is the Standard.

 

[Pythons]

No where in the FB #18 does it say that EGW's writings interpret the Bible.

It indeed does. FB #18 says that the writtings of White are continuing and "authoritative" and also that the writtings provide instruction AND CORRECTION.

The FB dealing with the Bible only says of the Bible THAT,

The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history.

That's what it says.

It says that her writings "make clear" that the Bible is the Standard.

If what Ellen wrote guides and corrects the church then FB #18 is explicit that it's Ellen's understanding of what is in the Bible that's the truth, not what you believe the text to say. I've covered this previously in this thread and backed it up with proof that every doctrine specific to SDA's was established by Ellen White THEN and ONLY THEN can the Bible be said to be the standard after those specific doctrines have been identified by Ellen White.

 

[Stryder06]

It indeed does. FB #18 says that the writtings of White are continuing and "authoritative" and also that the writtings provide instruction AND CORRECTION.

The FB dealing with the Bible only says of the Bible THAT,



That's what it says.





If what Ellen wrote guides and corrects the church then FB #18 is explicit that it's Ellen's understanding of what is in the Bible that's the truth, not what you believe the text to say. I've covered this previously in this thread and backed it up with proof that every doctrine specific to SDA's was established by Ellen White THEN and ONLY THEN can the Bible be said to be the standard after those specific doctrines have been identified by Ellen White.

First one must understand that sister white was a prophet, used by God. Her writings are a source of authority and used for correction because that which she wrote was inspired by God. It is in no ways on par with the bible, as she herself said, but it does not take away from its authority.

She helps to give clarity and understanding on certain topics. She has no private interpretation of the bible. The same understanding that she has can be had by anyone.

 

[mva1985]

Originally Posted by mva1985

No where in the FB #18 does it say that EGW's writings interpret the Bible.
​

It indeed does. FB #18 says that the writtings of White are continuing and "authoritative" and also that the writtings provide instruction AND CORRECTION.

The FB dealing with the Bible only says of the Bible THAT,

Originally Posted by FB #1

The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history.
​

That's what it says.

Originally Posted by MVA

It says that her writings "make clear" that the Bible is the Standard.
​

If what Ellen wrote guides and corrects the church then FB #18 is explicit that it's Ellen's understanding of what is in the Bible that's the truth, not what you believe the text to say. I've covered this previously in this thread and backed it up with proof that every doctrine specific to SDA's was established by Ellen White THEN and ONLY THEN can the Bible be said to be the standard after those specific doctrines have been identified by Ellen White.

Pythons,

Interesting that you refuse to address the point where it says that her writings MAKE CLEAR that the Bible is the Standard.

It does not state that her writings interpret the Bible. Its not there. Anyone can read it for themselves. You are reading into it more then what is there. PERIOD.

 

[mva1985]

Every doctrine of the SDA church can be totally proved from the Bible. The Standard by which all will be judged.

 

[sentipente]

Every doctrine of the SDA church can be totally proved from the Bible.

And that settles it. MVA has spoken. The truth has been declared.

 

[Pythons]

Pythons,

Interesting that you refuse to address the point where it says that her writings MAKE CLEAR that the Bible is the Standard.

Let me complete the above, italics added

Interesting that you refuse to address the point where it says that her writings MAKE CLEAR that the Bible is the Standard after she has established the true meaning of it.

Example:

I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them, that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures so that none could see it until His hand was removed

If the chart of prophecy Ellen is speaking of was directed by God AND all doctrines of the SDA Church are proved by the Bible THEN what Ellen said "the meaning of specific passages in the Books of Daniel and Revelation" MUST MEAN what she said it means therefore the Bible teaches it because Ellen said that's what it means and everyone knows God worked through Ellen. Viola, the Bible teaches the I.J. / soul sleep and Sabbath observance for Christians.

It does not state that her writings interpret the Bible. Its not there. Anyone can read it for themselves. You are reading into it more then what is there. PERIOD.

That's exactly what it says. Hey, good to see you MVA.